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Has anyone heard of this kind of heating system in NYC?

Started by PMG
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1322
Member since: Jan 2008
Discussion about
There's a small condo by a little known developer going to auction in Brooklyn, and the heat system is unlike any I have ever seen in NYC. The heating coils are installed in the A/C central air handler in the ceiling above the kitchen. Apparently there is no boiler in the basement, just the individual gas fed heating coils in the unit itself. Has anyone ever heard of such a heating system being installed in NYC or Manhattan? What are the risks?
Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009

risk... heat rises.

I feel like I've seen systems like that before, but they're always closer to the ground in those "all in" units.

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Response by nyc_sport
about 16 years ago
Posts: 809
Member since: Jan 2009

Your description is a bit hard to follow, but in general you have just described a forced hot air heating system that is by far the most predominant heating method in new construction (at least in single family housing) because it allows the same duct work to be used for heating and cooling. Usually, the air is heated by hot water coils in the duct that are fed by the main boiler. Alternatively, a gas fired heat source heats the air directly as it is fed into the ductwork. The latter provides extremely dry heat, is more noisy, and I would not expect to find that in an apartment. Heat does rise, but it is not unusual to take this approach. If you want to use the same ductwork for heating and cooling, you have the inefficiencies of discharging cold air from basebaord vents, or hot air from ceiling vents.

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Response by PMG
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1322
Member since: Jan 2008

"Alternatively, a gas fired heat source heats the air directly as it is fed into the ductwork. The latter provides extremely dry heat, is more noisy, and I would not expect to find that in an apartment."

Thanks, nyc-sport. You understand my point, since you would not expect to find this kind of system in an apartment. You think noise is a risk, which is interesting--I hadn't thought of that. It also seems to me that the burden of maintenance or repair lies with the owner, rather than the superintendent.

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Response by nyc_sport
about 16 years ago
Posts: 809
Member since: Jan 2009

The burden of maintenance will definitely be yours if it is in the unit. A point of clarification. There is nothing unusual about a gas forced air system in an apartment per se. But residential gas fired systems don't usually work in the way you describe. Usually, there is a separate furnace, about the size of a filing cabinet, that heats the air as it is fed into the duct (it is still very dry heat and noisy). What you described sounded like a self-contained industrial spot heater -- like you might find mounted to a shop or factory ceiling. Either way, there needs to be some method to vent the combustion gasses, so there might be more to the system than was evident, or the furnace may be outside. I did mention the downsides of hot air heat but there are at least two upsides: (a) it heats very quickly, and (b) because there is a filtration unit on the air handler (which you will be changing a few times a year) it cleans the air.

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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
about 16 years ago
Posts: 9877
Member since: Mar 2009

Look up "heat pump". While the system you describe isn't all that common, what IS somewhat common is a combined heating/AC unit in each room looking exactly the same as the AC only units we see in apartment buildings all over NYC since the 1960's. It's just that those units almost always use 220 volt electricity instead of gas.

PS If I remember correctly (it's been a long time since I've examined them) this is similar to what's in 160 Bleecker.

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Response by PMG
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1322
Member since: Jan 2008

Thanks, 30yrs. Although the Offering Plan indicates natural gas heat, I'm still uncertain on how they use gas fed heating coils above the kitchen ceiling, when it's not a central boiler system. I'm wondering whether it is actually 220 volt electric coils since combustion seams risky in the unit. Got to do more research.

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Response by PMG
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1322
Member since: Jan 2008

engineers report says, "each air handling unit gas furnace is provided with direct vent and combustion air pipe terminating above the roof bulkhead," so there is a combustion furnace inside each unit. Good thing each unit has a carbon monoxide detector.

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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
about 16 years ago
Posts: 9877
Member since: Mar 2009

I can tell you I've seen individual gas fired mini-boilers either in the basement of the building for each unit or in the unit itself used to heated forced hot water baseboards. Sounds like this is the same except using forced hot air (BTW I HATE all forced hot air systems. You see a lot of them in NJ in older houses as retro fits - I've seen a ton in Engelwood. They nickname them "octopuses" because you have all these flexible round ducts going from the central furnace under the floors and thru walls to grates in teh floors and/or walls of all the individual rooms in the house).

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Response by NWT
about 16 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

That hot-air furnace was what my parents had, in a 19th-century house. Huge coal furnace, with ~12"-diameter ducts to floor grates in the downstairs rooms. Then the hot air rose through ceiling grates to the second-floor rooms above. Cold air then went back downstairs to a single return grate. No blower. They tore it all out and put in a gas furnace with rectangular ducts between the studs to all the rooms. When the new furnace cycled on there'd be a big boom, I guess from all those ducts oil-canning.

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