Wierd floorplan - need suggestions

You aren't kidding- that is one weird floorplan! The kitchen on the complete opposite side of the apartment from the living space is really odd.

I am NO expert, but if you're planning to renovate anyway, why not just flip the kitchen and the bathroom, making the bathroom en suite? You can use some of that wasted foyer space as part of the bedroom too. You could probably swing a tiny half bath off the new kitchen for guests.

Sounds like you need to consult an architect or structural engineer to determine what you can and cannot do with the walls. If they are load-bearing walls, it will limit your options. Good luck with your co-op board!

Lases - thanks for the suggestion. Its my understanding that the current location of the waste line for the toilet is a huge limiting factor. Otherwise that's not a bad idea.

Sunday - Yeah I am going to check everything out before going into contract. It's tough because this purchase is kind of contingent upon being able to make significant renovations, but at the same time so many things could go against my favor.

You need to contact a highly competent architect for a consult, maybe the building can recommend one who is already familiar with the building; but if the toilet cannot be moved, you've got nowhere to go to expand that teeny tiny maid's bedroom which generally take a twin bed because the maid is there to serve, not to be made comfortable. It appears that there may be no way to rectify that sad mess. I'd think long & hard about this one. Figure that a double bed, which most people think are not acceptable, measures 54" wide by 72" long; enjoy that bedroom!

Walk away from this one unless you don't mind the time and effort that will be required to push things through and accounted for the cost of getting an acceptable plan approved in your renovation estimates. If you have never done this before, you most likely underestimated everything by quite a bit!

It looks like the original layout had two maids' rooms with a bathroom in between them, has anyone seen this type of configuration before?

Because of the weird layout, the accepted offer was very generous and as such gives me a substantial renovation budget to work with.

It looks like the original layout had two maids' rooms with a bathroom in between them, has anyone seen this type of configuration before?

Because of the weird layout, the accepted offer was very generous and as such gives me a substantial renovation budget to work with.

Willshu, you might be right that there were originally two bedrooms with a bathroom in between the two rooms. There's a few unusual details in the floorplan such as having only one closet off the living room besides having a linen closet(?) in the bathroom. It looks like you may need to do more than just move the kitchen to where part of the bathroom is and then expand the bedroom into the former kitchen area by knocking down the wall. That being said, it looks like a great project and the best thing is that if you're willing to spend the time and money, you can have a wonderful living space. But from the floorplan, it does seem like you're going to have to do almost a gut renovation which may or may not work for you depending on your circumstances. Besides the affordable price, what else attracted you to this space?

Lobster, I've got no problem putting in the time and effort so long as the numbers make sense in the end. I am very flexible and could do the renovations right away or wait a while. The building itself is a full service building and is in a great location near transportation. In addition each of the windows has unobstructed views from a high floor. Hopefully I will have more answers about whats behind some of these walls next week.

Hi, I find building supers invaluable, most know every pipe line in there building and what can be done and what has been already done in other apt's in the same line. They also know how rigidly a building holds different rules like no wet over dry, what walls if any are load bearing, if that door in your kitchen goes to a hallway what the building policy is, if it must remain with nothing behind it or if it must be taken out and the wall closed up (which may effect your design). the other benefit is they know this instantly, I would ring and make an appointment to pop into the building in advance introduce yourself to the super and see if there is a time he can be there there with your contractor. as even thou it is great your contractor is going it is hard for contractors to know what the pipe system is unless they make a probe in the wall to see.
That idea of Lases of possibly swinging a half bath I think is great, I personally think a half bath is one of the best uses of a spare 12 sq ft for practically while you are living there and for resale.
Good luck, I am happy you got a generous discount.

I'm not an architect, just a bored guy with Photoshop:

http://imgur.com/dMkzz.jpg

There's obviously plumbing near the far wall where the toilet and sink are, so putting a tub or shower there should be no problem. But I have no idea if you can actually remove or reroute the plumbing where the tub is. And of course, all those walls would have to be non-load-bearing.

And you'd need an open kitchen to get any sunlight in your new living room. So basically I'm telling to take down most of the walls. ;)

Willshu, it's an interesting project. Gabrielle is correct that the foyer area is alot of wasted space which could be put to better use. How many square feet is the apartment? While no one can argue that a powder room is ever a bad idea, I'm wondering if you might want to use part of that space for closet space instead. If the apartment is 700-800 square feet, do you need 1 1/2 baths although a powder room doesn't hurt resale value but neither does extra storage space. The kitchen is the issue here, I think. Do you want to divide up the living room space to incorporate an open kitchen area? Would your kitchen area have a bar area for seating? Also the bathroom does seem large for the space, but having seen many apartments in my own search with very small bathrooms, I'm not sure that having a larger than average bathroom is a bad thing for resale so long as it doesn't take away from the size of the other rooms and closets. Best of luck to you and please post photos of the completed renovations if you choose that route.

Willshu, I just looked at the floorplan again and you're right that the bathroom is very large for the space of the apartment and the apartment would probably look more proportional with a smaller bathroom.

I hate to break it to you, but that's not a bedroom -- it's a closet with a window. Oh, you might be able to STORE a bed in that room -- on its side ...

willshu - Start with what you CAN'T do. Believe me, there is nothing ideal here... it'll be the first bedroom I have ever seen with a service entrance. Just think of the years of head scratching that has already gone into this place.

You are correct about toilet waste line. Needs to be 4" so moving it is not an option.

The wall with the double doors to the small bedroom contains a plumbing stack servicing the tub so moving at least that portion of the wall is likely not an option.

So what CAN you do?

You can rotate the tub 90 degrees and reclaim part or all of the closet without much of a problem.

You can then rebuild the wall and move the sink beside the toilet.

Now you have a bathroom, but no way to get in.

You are left with two choices: make it an en-suite or take half the existing bedroom space to build another hallway. The hallway would have to be at least 8' long to clear the tub and accommodate a door, which would then leave behind an odd windowed nook in the new bedroom.

At the end of the day you will be left with an odd space, regardless how much you spend.

also, it may be prudent to try to get a feel for what the co-op board might prevent you from doing as far as renovations. generally all renovations (not just wet/dry) have to be approved by them, and they may give you even more restrictions.. also, are any of these walls load-bearing?

Starting from what you can't do (move the toilet) and shouldn't do (move the kitchen away from the service entrance), you are left with one choice for your bedroom: on the left upper corner where the living room currently is located.
I would remove the foyer closet, and build out 2 new ones on the left lower corner: one walk-in accessible from the bedroom, the other facing the newly created dining nook. I would move the tub against the outside wall on the other side of the toilet, and have a dual sink and linen closet on the opposite wall (where the tub currently is). You will have to move the bedroom wall by a foot or to accomodate the length of the tub. I'd give access to the bathroom from both sides, with pocket doors. So in essence, you are using the space between the tub/ toilet and the dual sinks/linen closet as a hallway, giving you a usable larger bathroom without sacrificing access from your bedroom or the public spaces. You will be able to reclaim 2 or 3 feet from the current bathroom depth to make that dining nook.
I would build the kitchen against the right bottom corner, pantry, refrigerator, counter, coooktop, counter, service entrance, with a return across for the sink and dishwasher. The top right corner would be your living room.

While the apartment poses serious challenges, it offers some interesting possibilities if you step outside the box a bit. It would make a nice alcove studio, e.g.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7h1dy/
This opens it up and makes the most of the windows, since that's the feature that drew you to the unit.

In this version the bath becomes a large, airy bath/dressing room, with the tub rotated as suggested by Spinnaker, open on one side assuming that wall can be removed. One entire wall is for storing clothes. We are so used to combining bed/dressing and having separate and adjacent bath that this approach may seem improbable, but it works extremely well in practice. It would certainly help this space. The sleeping alcove is set off by storage units and a partition high enough to hide the bed but low enough to allow light into the living area and foyer. The kitchen expands into the foyer, leaving room for a nice dining area near the window. While a generous foyer may seem like wasted space, it helps make a small apartment feel more gracious. This one looks big enough to accommodate a desk area. It might even make sense to remove the closet next to the entrance and make that space an extension of the living area. Looks like it could accommodate a desk and/or a dining table.
Good luck!

Wow, i just checked the thread and thanks to everybody who contributed suggestions. Roomwithaview might have the most practical potential floorplan, since it involves only knocking down one wall which has no gas/plumbing/waste hookup attached to it. While only a studio, the studio space would be 350-400 sq ft which isn't that bad.

I noticed a bunch of you have thrown out my idea of replacing the kitchen area with a bedroom near the service entrance. I am no expert, but is there a reason why this is not advisable? Do the plumbing/gas hookups pose an insurmountable problem? As I said this would be my ideal layout since it makes most effective use of the wasted hallway space.

My suggestions were based on livability and resale value. If you make it a crudely chopped studio, you'll have to pass on the discount you received when you sell. Go to Brownstoner and ask for designer/contractor recommendations on the forum. You can get a better estimate of what a full gut will cost (time and money.). Then you can figure out what a fully renovated 1br costs in the building, and whether your buying cost leaves enough room between what you are paying and it will be worth renovated.

It took me a few minutes to work out Roomwithaview's suggestions comparing it to the original floorplan, but Roomwithaview seems to have come up with a great design for the space. Having a dining area near the window is a very good idea as are the ideas of combining the bath/dressing area and the suggestions of how to utilize the foyer. Roomwithaview, are you a designer or a design student because I would love to hire you to help me figure out what to do with my apartment as soon as we buy one. I would imagine that a well designed studio alcove will be appealing to many buyers as well as comfortable for Willshu as a living space. Best of luck, Willshu.

lobster -
you can reach me at gmail: roomwithaview22

Clever, roomwithaview!

Just make sure that the doors and doorways to the bath and kitchen are wide enough to satisfy ADA requirements. If you make "significant" changes like this, by law they have to comply with the Americans With Disabilities Act. I had a friend who ran into this problem when he tried to move a wall in his bathroom. He couldn't satisfy the ADA requirements, however, because he had to keep the existing narrow door. Had to scrap the whole plan altogether.

Insane, particularly since he lives on the fifth floor of a WALK-UP building.

Hey guys,

Thanks to all those who chimed in with their comments and suggestions, I really appreciate everything this great community has to offer and its willingness to help others make good decisions.

However, I cannot say the same for the unprofessional a**holes at T*wnsley and G*y, the firm who represented the above unit. Apparently, accepting an offer for these folks is more or less a meaningless act, like when you were in third grade and told your friend "no trade backs" at the lunch table but did it anyways. A few days after they accepted my offer and expressed their desire to "move ahead with the deal", the sales person e-mailed me saying that my offer was quite close to another buyers and that "the outcome will most likely depend on who is willing to move ahead and sign the contract." This was on Friday -- the offer was accepted on Tuesday and my attorneys info was sent on Wednesday. Thursday was Thanksgiving. I figured this meant that if I did not move to sign within a REASONABLE amount of time that the other buyer's bid would be accepted, yet when I followed up on Monday to arrange a time for my contractor, she tells me that the other buyer is willing to sign without consulting a contractor or engineer (stupid on their part), and in fact they were now moving forward and may or may not have been sent contracts! Was totally blindsided by this and very angry that she was forcing me to rush the deal when as you all know, this purchase present unique challenges that could only be rationalized in a thoughtful, deliberate way.

Since contracts were not signed, I made an appointment anyways on Thursday to see the place with my guy. About an hour an a half before the time, she called to tell that the contracts were signed and basically I had just been boned on the deal. Essentially I was totally screwed on the deal from the very beginning, and all the work and effort you guys did to help me (and believe me it was very much appreciated) was for nothing!

Now I understand that nothing is final until the contracts are signed, but when you accept an offer, the just thing to do is to hold other offers until you give that person adequate time to perform their due diligence. I have submitted several offers over the years and many were rejected because the broker already had an accepted offer and did not want to create a free for all situation, which is what this became. I was about to undertake one of the biggest steps on my life, and was in no mood to rush it through, but this is precisely what they were forcing me to do. Basically T*wnsley and G*y can go suck a big one, but for those of you who are reading and are interested in any properties that they have accepted offers on, go ahead and place an offer anyways. If it is high enough or a cash deal, there is a good chance you can go in and steal someone's future home from right under their feet! uggh, what a sh*tshow this was. Watch out for these scumbags since they will screw you over in a heartbeat.

Don't sweat it. You might have dodged a bullet. The Universe is just!

Everything happens for the best. Considering that this unit was in it's current configuration, perhaps the board is as big an a-hole to deal with as the agents. "This, or something better" so let us know when you find the place that is W A Y better than this sad mess. Best of luck to you, willshu.