Toren to START CLOSING!

Are you a contract holder at Toren? Are you planning to go ahead with your closing?

I'm not likely to close unless things (e.g. prices) change in this environment. I've spoken to others and many (almost half) of them have said they won't close. It's a beautiful building, but I just can't justify going that far under water for an apartment I only plan to have for a few years, especially when its neighbors are slashing prices so drastically.

nogo123

when you mentioned this to the developers/salespeople what was their response?

I have not personally mentioned this to them. Their general feedback to other buyers has been "no negotiations, these units are priced correctly." We'll see what happens in the next couple months.

I would give "negotiating" a shot, If I were you! At this point in time you have got nothing to lose. Think how much of a price cut would make it possible for you to close, and if they feel you are serious, they just might give in!

Pigs might also learn to defy gravity...When the time comes, I will make my case, but they have held firm for quite a while - even in the face of lawsuits. Also, hypothetically, if I did love the building enough to close at full price, I would worry about the rest of the building selling with the lack of negotiation that is currently occurring. Too many things are stacked against closing at this juncture.

I thought that the new FHA rules would rule out Toren...

for example, the developer is supposed to avoid:

"Potential noise issues, where the property is located within 1000 feet of a highway, freeway, or heavily traveled road, within 3000 feet of a railroad"

see http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/letters/mortgagee/ document 9-19 for further reading

nogo123, I also know someone who won't close. The primary reason: She can now afford a unit in Manhattan, and going ahead at Toren would mean she'd pay as much per SF as she would in Manhattan. Sure, I understand that many people feel Brooklyn is "it" and that Toren IS a nice bldg. (aside from the mixed-income thing...), but there are equally as many people who'd rather live in the city if their finances allowed them...

"nogo123, I also know someone who won't close. The primary reason: She can now afford a unit in Manhattan, and going ahead at Toren would mean she'd pay as much per SF as she would in Manhattan. Sure, I understand that many people feel Brooklyn is "it" and that Toren IS a nice bldg. (aside from the mixed-income thing...), but there are equally as many people who'd rather live in the city if their finances allowed them..."

I don't think your friend is alone. The prices are not competitive in the current market as I said before. I see my needs changing in the next 5-10 years, so I don't plan to have the apartment for that long and since many of the buyers are in this boat, I wouldn't be shocked if the majority of them opted not close. That said, I don't think the developers are going to budge. Their loss. I for one cannot wait until this is a distant memory.

> Sure, I understand that many people feel Brooklyn is "it"

Yes, the people who won't admit they just can't afford manhattan. If you think north flatbush next to the projects is "it"....

> aside from the mixed-income thing...

I love how folks are concerned by folks in their building who only make $60k... when the welfare folks live across the street. You'll be happy to have your lower-middle people to help you fight off the gangs.

Toren, despite being one of the best developements in downtown brooklyn, will have to adjust pricing to level with the fortes and Oro's recent price reductions!

Otherwise I cannot see them successfully selling out!

They are also gonna need for the projects across Myrtle to implode to be successful.

Toren is not yet FHA approved. They need to get several more units in contract.

Seamus

Are you sure that Toren has not yet been approved for FHA, It was mentioned in an article this week (in the real deal) that Toren has been FHA approved.

The article says they are seeking FHA approval, not that they have it. They need to sell more units and the only way to do that is offer incentives. The developer needs to get on it.

If the developers of Toren don't get in on it thaey will soon meet the Fate of Forte!

Didn't the people at Forte had the option of getting their deposit back? Perhaps it would be good if the Toren doesn't get it, the people wanting out of their contract will be able to.

Does it change any of the contract holder's minds at all about the Toren now that it is Fannie Mae approved? Many developments are now seeking the "golden stamp" of condo approvals. Does this change purchasers or contract holder's minds about the condo if it is Fannie Mae approved? Developers always ask whether it really makes a difference. I think it does, at least a little. For one, you know the building is at least 50% sold to owner occupants, has a sufficient budget, all the right insurance coverages, no single entity owning more than 10%, etc. By the way, I dont think they have FHA approval but Im sure that'll change in the near future. sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com

As a contract holder at this building, I know for a fact they do not have FHA at this time, but have invested in getting it. They've submitted themselves for approval, increased maintenance prices by 13% (claiming it was necessary for FHA approval).

OpenDoBro

Have there been any more closings besides for the two posted on streeteasy? Are you planning on closing?

FHA approval as of 1/21/10

https://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/condo1.cfm

Search by condo name and you'll find it.

Ahhh, so they got it on Thursday... thank you.

wait so if they increased the maintenance by 13% then how much total have they raised it? isnt there a right of recission after a certain percentage increase??

I didn't see anything like that in the contract and I doubt they would put something like that in the contract to prevent themselves from shooting themselves in the food.

Guess the near future was closer than i thought. So they now have Fannie and FHA. Based on that and because of that i think most contract holders will close. sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com. By the way, anyone that makes less than 77,760 household income is given 5k towards closing costs from BofA at Toren. Probably more for studio and some 1br purchasers only.

Why do you think most contract holders will close? I don't see that in the cards at all. I think they'll be lucky if they get half of them to close.

Fayek, I don't plan to close with Toren at the contracted price from 2008. I lose X money if I walk away, but they lose 9 times more than what I lose... still a lose-lose situation. A win-win situation would be for them to close at a 2010 price rather than a 2008 or an overly optimistic 2015 price. The real question is, what is a 2010 Toren price? Anyone takers on that? Price/sqft?

My guess on 2010 Toren pricing would be somewhere around $475-500 psqf,

OpenDoBro

your point is well taken. I agree that although people signed contract at Toren for way higher prices per square ft than they would agree on today.

It would benefit the developers to somehow come to a compromise with the contract holders.

Bullying,Stonewalling buyers almost never works!

11201

I disagree with your assessment on prices.

Unless Toren has the same fate as Forte prices will not be lowered to 475-500.

Realistically I would think more around $590 - $700 a foot.

$520 would help them get units moving, but not as fast as Forte for sure. they are currently priced at $700+

I'm not saying where I think Toren pricing will end up in 2010 but rather where it should be. Since the developers haven't budged one bit on pricing amid practically no sales in over year and the worst real estate conditions, i don't think they will.

I want them to put my apartment back on the market. Apartments where people are clearly not closing are still being shown as "in contract" rather than being marketed to new buyers. Alot of the best apartments were the ones that went into contract way back when. But I guess they wont do that until they have exhausted all their options to close existing contract holders at full price. The developers behavior is just very suspicious..... its like they are fully comfortable with the project failing

Shong, does bank of america distinguish between "in contract" and actually sold when evaluating a building? Before they use to mean they same thing. Looks like in this case, it is no longer the case. So far only 2 have closed...

More than 2 have closed, Streeteasy wrong (or needs to update). Heard at least 10, plus more to come over the next month. FHA/Freddie, tax/bank incentives will help...

"More than 2 have closed, Streeteasy wrong (or needs to update). Heard at least 10, plus more to come over the next month. FHA/Freddie, tax/bank incentives will help..."

They have sent out all closing letters - the 10 that have allegedly closed and the "more to come" will account for everyone in contract who is going to close. A lot of people won't close. Also, lots of buildings in Brooklyn have FHA/Fannie that are reasonably priced. This would have helped 6 months ago before Forte and Oro, but now, not so much. I'm just glad it's not my problem anymore.

It's hard to close with the building at $700 per sqft or more. They're on average $140 per sqft too high. If you want to close, you have to reason with yourself that you've already put down $70 (10%) per sqft and you'll be underwater at least another $70 (10%) per sqft when you close... and if you're financing that... you're better off keeping the other 10% in your bank account and going over to avalon bay, brooklyner and renting for $1000 per month.

Brownstoner: Toren Gets FHA Status, Tenants and a New Pool!

Heres the link: http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2010/01/the_toren_swimm.php

Thanks for the link. There's also the new bldg down the block on Myrtle renting out at those levels.

Its soooo obvious how Toren's constant advertising on Brownstoner leads to these fawning, and factually incorrect postings. How un-Brooklyn of Brownstoner.

What's inaccurate about the posting?

the brownstoner article says that the building is 50% sold.....It is or was at one point MAYBE 50% in contract (I obviously have my doubts about that) but most of people signed contracts in 2008, and since the developers won't work with anybody in any respect on concessions or pricing adjustments, it is a poor financial decision to close there, being that you are already about 25% underwater. Unless you are planning to stay there for many years, its a quick way to lose alot of money. Not to mention all of the other issues buildings like this are facing, where after you close there you dont know if you are about to be one of the few owners in a rental building, or what is going to happen with the common charges and amenities if there arent enough buyers, etc etc etc

so calling the building 50% sold is just way off, there are maybe 10 apartments that have sold there at this point.

And I second what the other poster noted, that pic of the pool is a rendering

I actually saw the pool in person. It is a small lap pool but does look pretty good as it's new.

There are people living in the building, yes. But the building is clearly under construction still. Lobby is very small, and they have been negotiating with the grocery market lease for YEARS, and nothing is settled yet.

I went there on a Saturday, and there were bunch of people checking out that place. But speaking with 50% sold, I just don't think it is possible.

Realitybites, sorry for the late response. Pre sale requirements are based on units in-contract or closed. A 100 unit building could have 51 units in-contract and none closed but we would consider it having met our presale requirements.
Sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com