Long Island City

I wonder that too. I think it might have a bit of an impact on appreciation, but it could go the other way too. LIC really doesn't have that much going on right now but with even more buildings would come more bars, restaurants, shops and people which could end up boosting appreciation even more. There are still a lot of ny'ers who wouldn't even consider looking at LIC because it is still "up and coming" but if 20 new buildings come as well as the ammenities that should come with it it might make your investment even more profitable.

But you also have to keep in mind that with those 20 new buildings whether the often touted "5 min subway ride to Grand Central" will turn into a 20 minutes nightmare because of overcrowding on the 7 train. I like LIC and was looking to buy there, but ultimately I decided that the prices they're asking for units there right now are a bit unjustifiably high. Also, you have to consider exactly where these 20 bldgs are all going up. I saw that some new bldgs are in blocks that are not really close to the subway stations or the shops and restaurants.

I agree with your views on pricing. Apts there just seem too far above the market.

That's what I am sort of thinking the prices seem not that much lower than Manhattan. I know you get a little more bang for your buck. But not that much more.

I was thinking of buying at LIC. Saw a few new condo. Very nice. But with a family, where is the supermarket and park (not the little one by the river) and what school (beside the Wagner school by the river)? Does anybody lives at LIC and feels very convient to everyday necessities?

LIC is not a bad place : cheaper alternative than Manhattan for sure

I looked around a great deal and decided to target LIC - has a great feel in my opinion and is only going to get better once there is more commerce which will come with the new developments/residents.

For the last 15 years developers have been saying LIC is the next new area...for some reason it has never happened.

Looks like it's happening now...

It looks very industrial. It's very grey and commercial looking. It's kind of creepy. I wouldn't want to live there.

Agree with #11.

I don't understand why people would choose to live in LIC when for the same (or lower) psf, you could live in Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, DUMBO, etc. All are much nicer than LIC by a long shot, which, as previously mentioned, isn't that nice (and kinda dumpy IMO).

Is it worth giving up services, a nice neighborhood, a residential feel, etc. to live 10 minutes closer to Midtown?

LIC will always have its spurts of growth and then nothing happens...it's a strange vibe like a ghost ship.

I agree with #10 - I like the low density feel and some parts do have a very nice residential feel, good restaurants, great city views/proximity, etc. and I agree that it's only going to get better. I was just exploring there today and there is a tremendous amount of development going on, and it all looks pretty great - this most certainly will increase the amount of resturants, stores, etc. To each his/her own - DUMBO seems industrial to me - not very nice IMO especially with all of the noice - Brooklyn Heights is great, though more expensive than LIC and Cobble Hill, Boerum, etc. not bad, though certainly farther than 10 more minutes away from midtown vs. LIC!

Actually, #12's estimate is pretty close. My girlfriend lives in Boerum Hill and works in midtown. Her ride on the D is less than 20 minutes. Besides the proximity to work though, what's the big deal of living so close to midtown? Midtown blows. If I were going to live in one of the outer boroughs, I'd rather live closer to the downtown neighborhoods.

Here's a recent article on LIC development: http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/queens/2007/06/12/2007-06-12_lic_is_booming_developers_say-1.html

#9, it never happened because our idiot mayor held its redevelopment hostage to the even more idiotic Olympics bid. Thank god London got it instead.

Any updates on LIC opinions?

I think #15 was on the mark. People that live in the outer boroughs would rather live closer to downtown than midtown. Hell, if I had to move out of the city, I'd choose the areas in Brooklyn already mentioned rather than midtown. Even if it meant an extra 15 minutes on the subway. Hence why LIC is never going to be the "next big thing."

Why exactly downtown versus midtown? I actually heard the opposite.

Why be on the train for 20+ minutes each way when you can be on the train for less than 5 minutes from LIC? Many people would prefer midtown to downtown because it is closer to Central and Bryant Parks, more upscale restaurants and shopping, Broadway, museums, etc. Beside, from Grand Central you can get just about anywhere uptown or downtown pretty easily. Also, from LIC it is much easier than Brooklyn to get to other places beside Manhattan (upstate, LI, etc.). Once the many current LIC developments are finished and more retail moves in, which has started already, the area will be amazing.

I live in Conn and instead of a small, dated studio pied a terre in Manhattan, I'm thinking of a brand new 1 or 2 BR in LIC for the same price. I can easily take my 2 young kids to the tourist stuff in Manhattan, plus Shea for the Mets, close to airports. I don't care about being in a hot established trendy area or how close the supermarket is. A couple places to grab a bite to eat is enough for us. Am I crazy?

What is the purpose of having an apt. in NYC? Will it be more convenient for family/friend visits and get togethers? Which borough do you anticipate spending the most time in? There are a lot of really cool things in Queens. If you mainly anticipate participating in activities primarily in Manhattan though, will you and your family be OK with the additional travel via car, subway or bus from Queens to Manhattan after your drive from CT? Or are you a family of walkers and want to step outside and be able to get anywhere on foot in Manhattan whether it is 7 or 70 degrees outside? At what age would you trust the kids to navigate the city without you? Would you be comfortable having them travel from Queens to Manhattan or Brooklyn or wherever on their own?

For what it is worth, I could care less about trendy, and with FreshDirect service you don't have to worry about grocery shopping. Just get it delivered.

I found it incredibly helpful to use maps.google.com to search for businesses nearby where I was considering purchasing an apt. This way I could get some idea where the nearest bookstore and cinemas and cafes are, things that aren't tourist attractions, but I consider a part of living in the city.

We considered buying in Jackson Heights, Queens, and after 4 visits to the neighborhood, I figured out there were no English language bookstores, there was 1 cinema with 3-4 screens of current releases, the green space was lacking even though the neighborhood is known for their gardens, most are private and inaccessible to the general public. The neighborhood really lacks plazas and greenstreets type of places. Yes, tons of good eats in Jackson Heights, great bus and train service to Manhattan, but it's the weekend, I don't always feel like traveling to get a bookstore fix, etc.

What type of experience are you looking for in your second home?

Valldejuli : Thanks for your helpful comments and questions. There is no one main purpose of having a place in NYC, rather it will be nice to getaway to somewhere close and interesting and, of course, there are a million things to do. Many people in Connecticut get bored with suburbia and get a second home somewhere, often Florida, Vermont or the Mass/RI coast. None of these things appeals to me, but with so many tourist attractions, plus museums, airports, the Mets, and some friends all in NYC it is quite attractive to us. (If one lives in the City perhaps it's easy to forget how B O R I N G the suburbs are. People from Connecticut often go to NYC just to walk around...LOL!).

Being only 1 stop from Grand Central I could easily move about Manhattan from LIC, and also I could use Metro North to/from Connecticut. A friend of mine from Connecticut has a place on the Upper West Side, and I’ll bet that I could beat him to many places in Manhattan if we had a race.

Another advantage is that my wife is Chinese and loves go to Flushing (instead of Chinatown) for the Chinese markets and authentic restaurants. Finally, you mentioned Jackson Heights: I love Jackson Heights, all those South American places to eat along Roosevelt Ave. I'm a regular American white guy, but I speak Spanish and like the Latin culture.

(Regarding the kids, both boys ages 7 and 8 – they won’t be going anywhere alone for years.)

You're welcome. From what you write, you seem well-suited for a bigger apt. in LIC rather than bedding down in a studio in Manhattan. The transportation issue is especially good for your circumstance -- Metro-North from CT to GCT then the #7 to LIC. Personally I walk through Grand Central Terminal whenever I can, I like it that much, it's an especially nice transfer point and meeting place. You remind me that I need to checkout Flushing's Chinatown, and may I suggest the Tournesol restaurant at 50-12 Vernon Boulevard in LIC to you. Very good French food, in fact, so good, as soon as we sat down they approached the table with champagne, doesn't get much better than that.

Just you wait your kids will be itching to go solo in the city in about 7 years, time passes fast I tell you!

Valldejuli: Funny, as I wrote my reply to you I was convincing myself beyond a doubt that this is a good fit for us. Regarding Tournesol, we will definitely check it out, along with every other place on and around Vernon in LIC. Hopefully, it will be my neighborhood. If you don't mind my asking: Do you live in LIC? How old are your kids? What's your story?

Thanks again. John.

jjh3d, I don't live in LIC, but I have friends who live in 4 of the 5 boroughs and Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk counties so I travel around a bit to visit them and their kids. Love kids, but am a non-breeder here, museumgoing non-native renting in Chelsea, but am in the process of buying an apt. on the UWS. Rent's going through the roof, I need to move on.

I thought long and hard about Queens v. Manhattan, and aside from getting more for your dollar in Queens, the biggest factor in evaluating quality of life for me was time spent commuting to work and social and entertainment events, and secondly access to greenspace, so for me Manhattan was the better choice.

Your situation sounds different from mine in that you are looking for a place to hangout with your family and enjoy the city, and you plan to be doing things in Queens anyway. And although I don't have children at home, I'm sure it'll be nice for you and your spouse to be able to shut a door and have some privacy in LIC instead of everyone being in everyone's face in a studio (probably a big change from being at home in CT). Yeah, sure why not? That all sounds good to me.

Other information sources you may want to look at, and I apologize if you have already thought of these, but read the NY Daily News and the Post every day and look for reports on LIC and the crime blotter columns. You might want to subscribe to the Queens Chronicle, the edition specific to LIC, to get an even closer look at what goes on in that community.

http://www.queenschronicle.com/

http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/cm/CityMap.htm
You can type in an address, and see the nearest police station, firehouse, hospital, parks etc. There's nothing like plucking down a lot of money for an apt., then realize a little too late you are live in very close proximity to essential city services that make a lot of noise coming/going.

Good luck!

thanks again!

I have lived in LIC for 4 years, near Vernon-Jackson. The actual rate of evolution in the nabe is not as fast as the conversation about it, but in the last year momentum has definitely picked up. The number of people roaming on the street from last summer to this summer definitely grew exponentially... but not so much in the few years before. We STILL have no grocery store, and despite what others say about Fresh Direct, some of us still prefer going and choosing food items ourselves. I currently trek over to Greenpoint, to the Garden at Kent & Manhattan, which is a nice natural foods store. Other than that, it's the deli on Vernon at 50th st that keeps us all alive. It's not a grocery store, but does the trick in a pinch. Supposedly the Amish Market is coming to Queens West... but any decent grocer would work. It's SURPRISING that little designy furniture stores keep showing up, but no one's caught on to the need for food in the hood. I guess it took a while for DUMBO to get their grocery store as well.

Restaurants are blossoming more and more on Vernon, and off-streets. Sadly there's a lot of real estate brokerages and sales offices... understandable, but they don't really add to the character of Vernon. But hey... at least the sales offices will disappear someday. Brokerages are definitely here to stay.

As far as new construction goes, I'd say in this market it's still not a bad buy. Some projects are definitely more pricey than others, and it just takes a discerning eye, a cocked ear, and some research to sort it all out. It's true the prices creep up towards the Manhattan range if you look at $/SF, but building amenities tend to be fairly plush. Plus it's still mostly condos, which mean you can own real property instead of coops. There may not be crazy exponential equity growth, but the neighborhood is truly getting better and better. I was concerned when I first moved here that it would decline, but I'm happy to say that the influx has brought in some nice commerce. (except of course for the aforementioned grocery store.)

On a final note. I love living in the neighborhood. I'm single without kids, so bear that in mind. Landing in midtown after one stop is great actually. The 7-train hits almost every train running north and south in the city, so I find it easy to pop up or downtown without much issue. Some spots like Alph City, LES, and maybe Yorkville are a bit challenging to get to... but it's not such a big deal. Overall, the commute is more than satisfactory. I have no plans to move anywhere... but I also locked into a nice situation 4 years ago before half the construction that's going on now even began. That's one thing to bear in mind when moving to LIC now - LOTS of construction noise during the day. And it's going to be like that (esp in Hunters Point) for minimum the next five years.

Enjoy.