Another set of morons buying in Harlem and paying more than rent on UWS

'tWas a thing of beauty. Leverage borrowed money, or better yet, leverage credit extended based on future income expectations. Ah, the wonders of modern finance.

The real ace, IMO, would have been if he had gone long the Nasdaq future, where he only needed to post 7 or 10% margin. You know, bootstrap nothing into a $500K equity position. Don't know if it was fear or lack of familiarity that restrained him to just an equity margin account...

In case anyone misinterprets above post, by "real ace", I mean the ultimate in reckless behavior.

Just because you're a PhD it doesn't mean you are going to make smart financial decisions. Borrowing money on a credit card to gamble is the ultimate in reckless behavior short of borrowing money from the mob. I hope this guy never went to atlantic city with a visa card. I view mortgages as less risky than other investments because the value will never go to zero and it provides you with a place to live.

My prof. is buying a townhouse shell in Harlem to renovate with an FHA loan. He has no background at all in construction or owning real estate as far as I know. I really hope that it all works out for him, and I do think it will in the end, but it will be a long and painful process. Luckily he rents now in a swank Columbia apartment so he probably saves a ton on rent.

but of course, this just makes it even worse. exactly like a tax abatement that goes away the minute you buy the unit. since, there will be no 5% downpayment available in the event of a resale, how much is that likely to be worth in terms of reduced principal---15% assuming nothing else changes? i'm afraid that these people return to moron status.

CC, you're saying that the 5% financing is boosting price by 15%? How do you figure on that number exactly?

made it up based on assuming a more normal 20% downpayment...of course, the math is a lot worse if you assume that their downpayment of $30 K needs to be 20%---that seemed too conservative. from what they said in the article and a lot of posts here, it seems that many people value real estate based on what they think it will cost them monthly; could not get this monthly without the developer underwriting so its clear that the property is worth less without it.

Maybe they come from $$$ families. Otherwise, yes, quite foolish and they'll lose out big on transaction costs if they have to move.

Didn't realize that this was going to be such a hot topic, but here goes.

All of you that are saying that they will be paying less than $3K per month after taxes are not doing your homework or math.

Mortgage $570K 5.25% (if they're lucky) = $3,147.56
PMI (required under FHA) = $300.00 (this is a conservative estimate)
Maintenance = $750.00
----------
$4,197.56 per month

The first full year of ownership with bring them a tax return, considering 28% tax bracket, of approx. $8,300. That means that this place will cost them $3,500 per month. Are you going to tell me that you can't rent a similar place for that in HARLEM? I know on UWS they should get a nice place, not as fancy, but let's not forget the HUGE difference between neighborhoods.

Everyone always forgets that the taxes, under 421A abatement, will be increasing. Considering that the final tax burden will be approx. $10-18K per year, now do the math.

As far as spending their last penny and borrowing from parents and purchasing furniture on credit cards, most likely, One of them does not need to be unemployed for 1 year to go under, but more like 2 months. If they would have rented, they would have the $15K-20K cushion to make it for a year without begging mommy and daddy for some money.

these are newlyweds, don't you think they may want to have children? if they do, where are they going to get the money for day care, schools (no way you can send your kids to public schools there) and other stuff, lots of it, that comes with being a parent.

they are short sighted in their purchase. everyone know that in one year, they WILL have negative equity (too many condos, not enough buyers).

"no way you can send your kids to public schools there"

Um, people do it all the time.

yes Matt, if you would have kids you would send them to schools that are in the bottom 1/4 of NYC Schools. I'd expect PhD, who grew up in good schools, would not want to send their kids to those schools.

What an asinine thing to say. I doubt that you've ever even set foot inside a nyc public school, and you're probably frightened just driving above 96th st.
When we have them we will be sending our kids to Harlem public schools. Fuck private schools.

mmarquez110, i come from a NYC public school system. i did not go to schools that are nearly as bad as the ones in Harlem. 1/2 of my friends were dropouts. only 1/3-1/2 of the ones that graduated went to college.

the other thing in your statement is when, or if, you have kids. you are looking 7-20 years down the line. the schools may get better, who knows.

reality is your statement is just you being ignorant, just like the buyers in the article. once you have kids, you want the best for them. sending them into a school where a 3rd grader can be dealing after school or in school, is not what you're looking to have your kid deal with on daily basis.

i just left a nice area and a great coop apartment, because the school was not that great. it was significantly better then the crap in Harlem. i moved into a rental where the school is in to 10% in NYC and will be moving to NJ once my kids reach junior high school age. reality hit me in the face when i had kids, and i took the right steps for my kids, not for myself.

To all the phds out there a well deserved shout out. To any muddphudds, double shout outs!

This is why the bubble sucked!!!!!!!! You work and starve for 10 yrs but at the end you end up a tenured professor that can reasonably buy a classic 6 and raise children in NYC and not have to compete with re borkers place holding 10 units at trump place just bc they have ALL fucking day to work the bubble!

Oh fuck you Matt. When I first came to America ended up in ps 96. Look it up azzwipe. Coolest friends I had were the blacks and Latinos. They introduced me to Michael Jackson!!!!!!

here's the deal: there are good schools and bad schools in the nyc public school system. i have some familiarity with both. i have no idea what the school situation is for this apartment's location; if it is a poorly rated one however, the idea that you would blithely send your kids there is foolish. next time you're on 84th st between columbus and amsterdam, check out the public high school--brandeis at 3 o'clock and then let us know about your yet to be born kids going there.

listen ab_11218. We are firm proponents of public schools. What we have now in NYC is basically a two-tiered educational system based on socioeconomic status. When people do not move to an area bc of bad schools or send their kids to private schools it just contributes further to that.

It is not IF we have kids, it is only a matter of time. Retreating to the suburbs of NJ is definitely not what is going to best for our kids. My wife and I are fully prepared to deal with any shortcomings in our children's education caused by them not attending the best school. We'll educate them ourselves if need be. WE're not going to stand idly by while our children can't read or do drugs or whatnot.

Once they're in high school, they'll apply to whatever school they want and that is that.

You pissed me off when you said "I'd expect PhD, who grew up in good schools, would not want to send their kids to those schools."I can assure you that we will walk the walk.

I'll give you all a call once we start popping out kids. Agreed?
Today I need to save my anger for Joe Lieberman

so...your kids will be the guinea pigs for reform in a lousy school? as one who personally experienced that many years ago, i can assure you that your kids will not see it that way.

here's what mmarquez110 and the buyers in the article will be doing, if they have 1/2 a brain left after their PhDs...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/realestate/05Cov.html?scp=61&sq=school&st=nyt

this is the reality of every day and not a one in a million parents.

CC - I'll tell them that is the only school we can afford if they want to live in Manhattan. They always will have the option of going to live with their grandparents in the suburbs and taking the big yellow bus like I did.

hell no...tell 'em that they're walking your talk. tell 'em you weren't smart enough to figure out how to send them to a reasonable public school. be sure to tell 'em how incredibly sure of yourself you used to be. tell 'em about the great amenities you got in your stupid condo. tell 'em the truth.

cc, most people who live in manhattan now, just like the buyers in the article, did not go to inner city public schools. they have no clue what's going on and are just going by their ignorance.

when i started junior high school, not knowing a lot of english, i was rubbed at knife point in the school bathroom. they got 50 cents. more than 20 years later, that is still stuck in my mind.

mmarquez110, let your child come in with a crack pipe from his/her 5 grade class high as a kite and we'll see how quickly you'll go running to be burbs taking a loss on your apartment.

hindsight is 20/20.

as i said, as a 4th grader I was zoned out of the functioning public school and into the dysfunctional one. my parents were big believers just like our friend above. i'll spare you the details; as you noted, it is unfortunate some of the memories that stay with you. big talker from the burbs.

i'm guessing that those buyers also did not bother reading this article of how much taxes they will be paying once the abatement runs out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/realestate/08COV.html?em

So I shouldn't send my kid to the local public school because they're going to start doing crack in 5th grade? Have we jumped the shark yet?

do you even know what the local public school is? have you been there?

Agree that your perspective changes once you have kids. There is often a real change in the tenor of the class when there are more than 2 or 3 troubled kids in a class of 25. You have one teacher who has to teach the rest of the class as well as deal with the 2 or 3 troublemakers. This is in a "good" public school. Multiply the 2 or 3 kids by a factor of 2-3 to 10. The teacher is going to be inured to parents who don't bother finding out what's going on in class, and don't check the kid's mail - so what would be his/her motivation to "do more" for the other half of the class whose parents care?

I agree that most "middle class" or motivate kids (striving immigrant types) in this scenario will learn to read, write & do math. The issue is, is this kind of school experience you want for your kids? It's easy to talk the talk, much harder to walk the talk. Frankly, we are still debating this issue with our kid in a "good" public.

crack is whack

mmarquez110, just did a search to see to what the Fitzgerald belongs to. it's worse than i thought. on schooldigger, i thought that the scale was from 1-5 (5 being best). from this, i found out that it starts at 0.
http://www.schooldigger.com/go/NY/schools/0007802308/school.aspx

greatschools also shows that this is the school for "winners". it gives 2 out of 10.
http://www.greatschools.net/new-york/new-york-city/2279-P.S.-76-A-Phillip-Randolph-School/

i refused to send my kids to school that received 3 stars, barely, on schooldigger and received 6 out of 10 on greatschools.

with these facts in hand, would you send your child to this school?????

It ain't like the burbs are necessarily great. Take Larchmont; the schools are very well-regarded, if you don't mind your kid's fellow students taking up coke - just like mum and dad! - in the sixth grade.

We did not visit the school near the place we're buying because that is not something we are taking into account in our choosing to buy in that area.

ab_11218 - the school near the condo has similar rankings as ps 76. Those rankings seem to be exclusively based on test results so I don't put too much credence in them.

It may be better to look at the nyc gov. report cards, although i don't much much credence in them either
http://schools.nyc.gov/OA/SchoolReports/2008-09/Progress_Report_2009_EMS_M076.pdf

ok...i'm perplexed. no private school, but you can't even be bothered to check out the school? at least for re-sale value? did you read the article that ab posted? are you so full of yourself that you figure whatever the situation there you're gonna make it better?

mmarquez110, interested to see if you have general details about shells. What is involved? Seems like your prof got a FHA loan (so only 5% or so down). Does that mean he/she has $400 in cash to finish the shell or was he able to finance that also? If you have any details, I'd be interested to hear. Thanks.

The schools are an issue. I have been looking to buy in Harlem, to use it in the future when my kids go to college. I love it there. Now we are having the idea of them attending some years of high and middle school in NY. I feel the schools in Harlem are just not diverse enough, and there are some other huge problems (like there was a shooting outside the school at a 141st 1 month ago, school gangs, apparently-3 kids were wounded)
I started looking for private schools in the UWS, and none is less than 35k per kid. Does anybody know other options I might have? My kids are very talented and creative, but A-students they are not. I need to live in a house, and I cant afford one in the UWS.

I am full enough of myself that I believe that between my wife and myself we will be able to make up for any deficiencies in our childrens' educations, as well as help make the school a slightly better place. My wife has taught K and 1st in a failing school in the Bronx and I have experience teaching and/or tutoring math and science from 2nd to undergrad, so yes, I feel justifiable in my beliefs. Actually, I just applied to NYC Teaching fellows to teach high-school science, so I may have first hand experience on my own of how bad these schools really are.

Did i read the article about all of the parents running around spending millions trying to get zoned in the UWS? Yes I did, and it's not even an option for someone such as ourselves

Boss77 - He ended up going with BOA but also talked to TDBank I believe. It's not settled yet, I know he's having/had a lot of trouble getting money for the construction loan. It was listed for 800 or 900K.I find it unlikely that him and his wife have saved up 400K.

mmarquez, it's not k and 1st that will make your teeth chatter with fear, although they have their own set of issues. it's 5th on. and i too have taught young children, in more stable environments and in less so, and i would never ever allow my child to be an experiment in any educational system. and i'm a stay-at-home mom who spends quite a lot of time with her child.

you say you may have first hand experience of your own of how bad these schools really are. i'm assuming you don't yet. i have a friend who left PR to teach sixth grade in the bronx. he said those children would have been immeasurably better off if they had never been allowed to go to school.

mmarquez110, good for you! Good luck! I'll call you an optimist and noble instead of arrogant or stubborn. If only there are more of you.

I attended an average public elementary school in Manhattan, ok junior high school in Brooklyn, and an excellent high school in Manhattan. I am sending my kids to public school as well. I too believe parent involvement will greatly effect the kids success in school, but I will be selfish and put my kids first. I will make sure they end up in a public school that is at least considered "good". I am confident I can help my kids do great in a good school, but what nyc10023 wrote above is absolutely correct. You can only do so much as a parent if the school is terrible. There is also the issue of safety. School violence goes hand in hand with bad schools. I am not noble enough to knowingly put my kids in harm's way for the greater good. My parental instinct is to protect my kids and give them the best chance of success possible without putting them in a bubble.

AR - I'm just saying that I think we can fill in the gaps if need be. And I'm not ready to just write off an entire borough worth of students.

Sunday - Maybe I'll feel differently in 5 years about the safety issue, I guess we'll see.

mmarquez, there is a lot of change occurring in the neighborhood. devoted parents can accomplish a great deal. hopefully the educational environment will be evolved enough by the time your children are school aged. just be aware that there is only so much parents can do. your children's social environment matters a great deal as well, and you can't provide the extra attention for all of the kids.

but i only wish you the best. and the young couple featured in this article.

thanks. we'll see how things turn out over thee next few years.

Mimi: I'm an odd one to comment on schools but could you tolerate a faith based school? Catholic school has long been a good alternative in NYC for people who thought public education was substanrd, especially in struggling transitional neighborhoods. Catholic schools have changed a lot over the years, no more nuns with rulers and while religion is still taught its not as heavy handed as it was in my day and the are a large number of non-Catholic students.

If you are Jewish, there are Jewish day schools which combine a secular cirriculum with religous studies. These schools are not as strict as old fasioned yeshivas, I wouldn't bring a ham sandwich for example, but they are co-ed and mostly identify with the "Modern Orthodox" segment of the Jewish community. I'm not sure what the tution is, I suspect its betwwen Catholic and secular private school.

Sunday, you're the optimist and he's the arrogant wannabe superhero. Let's set the record straight. Most of us here are sending our kids to public school (or thinking of doing that when the time comes) but we are careful in choosing to which ones. The funny thing is that it doesn't have to be more expensive. But, see, you do have to go to the trouble of visiting schools and doing some research. For example, there are a few very good elementary PSs in Brooklyn (district 15) such as PS321, PS58, PS29 and PS107, and there's a very good middle school (MS51) they can lead into. After that HS is unzoned, which means that your kids can go wherever they want and wherever they can get admitted, within the entire city. And the truth is that, although the prime streets in the catchment areas for those good schools in Bklyn are way more expensive than Harlem (say, prime Park Slope or Cobble Hill) there are areas within the zone that are cheaper. And, also, you don't need to purchase a new development, unless you care more for granite, zubzero, and his and her sinks, than for your kids education. And it is just moronic and arrogant to think that you'll make such a difference that a school where barely 70% of the kids graduate will be equivalent to one where 70% go to 4-year college.

Case closed.

the charter schools in harlem are getting very high marks
may be worth checking

wow Tromp, you really don't think much of me at all do you? And this is all because I'm not ready to just give up on those poor schools in Harlem? Talk about arrogant, you are elitist. Thousands of kids go to those schools, and while not all of them graduate and go to college, there are plenty that do. Frankly it would be to my kids' benefit to go to school with poor and working-class kids than to go to school with kids whose parents spend all day on SE talking about classic 6s and multimillion dollar apartments.

We're not buying a new development but I appreciate the thought. So no, I'm not going to be sacrificing my childrens' education for granite countertops.

Brooklyn is not going to work for job reasons. The benefit of being located in Harlem is easy access to penn station and Metro North as well as the ability to drive to Westchester or North Jersey if necessary.

if you want to improve the schools that is terrific. get a job, volunteer, contribute, lobby; do it all. the point is that from everything you've said you have absolutely no idea what the day to day reality could be (and i stress could be) for your kids in a poorly functioning school. you scoff at the safety issue; are you serious about that? spend a few days in one of these schools (assuming you can get past the metal detector) and then see how you feel.

we'll see how things are in 5 years, after I know more about the specific schools and I have kids. I think that my wife and I will both still feel the same, but who knows. I'm not averse to coming back here in 5 years and telling everyone they were right and I was wrong if necessary.

My dad and his uncles told me I would be a conservative republican by the time I was 40 but that doesn't seem to be going as planned.

fair enough.

you know the old cliche about no atheists in a foxhole?

should be a similar one for how a person deals with a child that has been threatened.

Mimi: your kids are middle school + high school age, right? It doesn't help to live on the UWS then, because there is no area that is zoned for a good middle school (yet) or high school (yet). There are selective public middle schools (Mott Hall, Delta, etc.) that one applies to based on scores on tests taken in 4th Grade. Ditto high school application. I would definitely look into charter schools in Harlem as well as Catholic schools. Jewish day schools are not cheap - I think the cheapest is probably Manhattan Day School which I believe only goes to 8th Grade. The rest (most of which only go to 8th grade - Rodeph, Heschel) cost the same as private secular schools.

MM: I think your kids will probably test into G&T. It has been my experience that teachers' kids do very well on the G&T test. I would prefer a more diverse socio-economic class that is not cherry-picked ala private school. But even you have to admit that there is a difference between less materially advantaged kids who come from an immigrant background that stresses education (note high-scoring, but high free-lunch pop. of Chinatown school/schools in Qns) vs. kids whose parents are barely out of their teens who are still growing up themselves. So it's more nuanced than just saying that you want your kids exposed to diversity.
I commend you on trying out NYCTF - I thought about it, but I don't have the temperament to teach math to people who don't like math. You and your wife sound nice and yes, if more people were like you, then we wouldn't have the problems we do

Mimi - If you're looking for middle school / highschool, Frederick Douglass Academy seems like a really good school from what I have seen first hand. It is located at 138th and Adam Clayton Powell, and definitely geared towards students who are going to go to college. I have worked with more than a few middle and high school students from there and they are very nice and polite. I have done some LEGO robotics activities at the school and also some activities with their greenhouse in the courtyard.. The teachers and the principal seem very invested. A few of the science teachers even have PhDs if you're into that.

http://schools.nycenet.edu/region10/fda/

I'm not sure what the deal is with admission, I don't believe that it is a charter school.

nyc10023 - I understand its very nuanced. I know that it has been decades of negligence and inequity that has led these schools to where they are today. I'm not that worried about my own childrens' education because we plan on being very invested in it. We're really over-educated so we figure our kids will either be G&T or popular and dumb as bricks, but they can't be all of those things.

so G&T it is.... you'll be taking your 5 yr old on the train every day to school in the morning in packed trains. "i love seeing that".

who will pick them up and bring them back to your oasis where the schools don't perform? UWS or UES after school program it is... now you're back to living in Harlem and using other good/great schools from other neighborhoods.

you say that you will be involved, i want to be involved to. here's a reality, you work and come home at 6 pm. you have to eat diner, you have to bathe the kid(s) and you have to give them some play time. they go to sleep by 8:30-9 pm as they will have to be up by 6:30 am now that you'll have to drag them on the train to a different school. the 1/2-1 hour you have with them to study will not be enough if they go to hellish school. why do you think that i can't get on my computer at night, because i have a 5 yr old and a 2 yr old and there's just not enough time when i come home.

reality check is in order...... i never realized that kids will take up all of my free time.

I don't know enough about G&T to say where they are available, I didn't mean they'd be attending one on the other side of the city. Anyways, I'm done talking about this stuff. Too much of this is just hypothetical at this point and surely I'm in for a "reality check" in the future.

ab, enough of the drama. plenty of people have kids who don't go to school around the corner. once your kid is in middle school it's fairly common. even at the elementary level it's not unusual. this is someone else's life and choices, how can you possibly sketch out what will happen many years in the future for someone else?

almost all young children go to sleep at 8:30 and get up early. it's their circadian rhythm. and the G&T school, or highly performing charter school, may only be 15-30 minutes away walking or by train.

but yes, kids will take up all of your free time.

The bottom line is, families need a place to live. The middle and even upper middle class has been priced out of anything below 110th Street. Harlem is a very viable option. Schools will eventually come into line as the middle class gentrifies north. What else is a family to do? Where are they to live? Look at the transformation of Manhattan Valley in the past two decades. Schools are good there and so are services.

What? Schools are good in Manhattan Valley? This is news to me. The improvement of public schools has not been commensurate (sadly) with the pace of gentrification. So far, the increase in school age population has meant the usage of variances and sibling pref. to get into more southerly schools + factoring in private school tuition with cheap(er) RE.

All of the liberal, middle-class folks I know who live N. of 110 or 96th do NOT send their kids to their zoned public schools. Many are in the helping professions (teaching, nursing, etc.) - either scrimp & save to send their kids to private or have been successful in obtaining a G&T spot (lower cutoff for 2nd and subseq. kids) or citywide or a variance.

Also, the School at Columbia is by lottery for people in the neighborhood. I hear that it has a very generous financial aid program.

I hear that the public school in Hudson Hts (west of Broadway, Inwood) is decent. There is also a parochial up there. And the RE was (is?) cheaper than Harlem.

Nice generalizations, NYC10023. Schools are getting better uptown. And will continue to do so as the gentrification moves north as it has to due to insane pricing below 110th Street. Families gotta have a place to live that they can afford. Bottom line.

Bronxboy: I am loathe to name specific schools, so the generalities. The empirical data on uptown schools (if you assign value to test scores) is improving. However, I have yet to meet or hear of a stereotypical "middle-class" college-educated couple who live uptown and ACTUALLY send their kids to these aforementioned schools.
Up until a couple of years ago, variances were widely available. IMO, 2 years is not enough to really see a turnaround in population of the neighborhood schools.

Of course, this is all anecdata (who I know or know of through friends) but if you go to insideschools.org or any of the public school websites, once you cross 86th, the racial breakdown and free lunch pop. statistics will clearly show you that in no way do those schools mirror their neighborhood.

> 4k including 750 for charges so they are likely paying 1600+750 = 2350 per month post taxes.

So, they're in the bracket where they pay 50% marginal taxes... and have an interest only mortgage??

Wow, dumber than I thought....

There are many fine schools above 86th Street. And I know many liberals who send their kids to them.

nyc10023 i agree with you except for one thing, looking at insideschools.org. ps 76, that gets horrid grades from greatschools and schooldigger, gets a very good grade there. in nyc dept of ed, the measurement is not of what the school is, but how much it improved. this school cannot go too far down, so a grade of A means that they improved slightly.

when i did my research for schools in my old neighborhood, insideschools.org gave fantastic reviews of a school and then attached a link to nyc dept of ed stating that this school has been placed on "Need Improvement List". once i saw that, i never bothered looking at that site for their reviews.

bronxboy, let me know if you heard of any good middel or high school above 86th st.

nyc10023, thanks for the tips. My husband is jewish and I am catholic, though he is an atheist and I am agnostic. I think it will be complicated for us to go the religious way...So far I like Calhoun, but adding more than 7Ok a year just for school is a bit difficult for us.
What do you mean by "in obtaining a G&T spot (lower cutoff for 2nd and subseq. kids) or citywide or a variance." I know nothing about schooling in Manhattan...Last time my kids went to school there was preschool in Tribeca.

I side with 10023 on this one. Although there is a tradition of people hoping to improve the zoned schools once their neighborhoods start improving, the red tape and the difficulties are many, and 20 yrs. may go by and the schools are often non deserving of the "up and coming" moniker, and much less could be called "good". By the same token, I think the Brooklyn schools I mentioned in a previous post (58, 29 and 107) have improved a lot more during the last 15 years than the UWS schools available in the 90s and above (i.e. PS84, PS145, PS165 and PS163) I think PS75 and PS166 in the UWS are better, but then we're talking about West 80s, which is mighty expensive.

> There are many fine schools above 86th Street

Please name them.

"Schools are getting better uptown. And will continue to do so as the gentrification moves north as it has to due to insane pricing below 110th Street"

Wishful thinking. The RE market is toast and all those schools are getting their budgets trimmed severely. Time to wake up to the facts (if you are broker, I apologize for getting in the way of your spin).

FYI, We live on the UWS and pay $3500 per month for a large, recently updated, quiet 2 BR. We have also looked at several 3 BR for under $4000 that were really nice, so I can't imagine not finding a decent 1BR for less than that! The UWS is def more affordable these days.... just responding to earlier posts.

And we send our kids to our zoned school (we live above 96th but below 110th) and it has been a very positive experience.

mimi, most of the selective middle and upper schools are very difficult to get into, and even more so outside of the 5th and 9th grade entry points. some of the specialty schools may have openings here and there, but it wouldn't be an easy route to go. there are some decent middle schools that are zoned, my advice to you would be to rent in one of those areas and get the one kid in middle school. i don't know enough about the high school process to tell you your likelihood of application success mid-high school years. would you consider one in public school and one in private?

i'm not a fan of the academic placement consulting services, and i have no clue how much they cost, but it might not be a bad idea for you given your circumstances.

mrs1007 thanks for confirming what i said initially. purchasing at those prices in Harlem, where the inventory is growing daily, is just plain moronic. you can rent for a year on UWS for same money, or less, and then come back in 1 year when another 5 developments come to the market and now you'll have a lot more competition causing the prices to drop significantly.

Harlem is following the footsteps of Downtown Brooklyn. plenty of developments are going under, going to rental or just dropping prices where people see it as a "bargain". Harlem's development is just a year or so behind, just watch and see.

here's the insideschools.org advice for someone moving to the city who needs a high school.

http://insideschools.org/index12.php?s=1&a=38#new

"I side with 10023 on this one. Although there is a tradition of people hoping to improve the zoned schools once their neighborhoods start improving, the red tape and the difficulties are many, and 20 yrs. may go by and the schools are often non deserving of the "up and coming" moniker, and much less could be called "good"

Me, too. Add in, the tanking RE market isn't going to help gentrification much... AND the school budgets are about to get their asses whopped.... going to be very tough for any lousy school to improve in that situation.

Well, I'm thinking I'm going to rent in Harlem as close to Metronorth there as possible, and then I'll watch for my buying opportunity as the market goes down over the next few years .....
It's difficult to shift from the "should-buy" "gotta-buy" mentality to the "renting-works-just-great-at-this-point-in-time" mentality, but with encouragement from Stevejhx and others including a hypnotist, i can acquire it.
Hooray!!! Uptown!

"It's difficult to shift from the "should-buy" "gotta-buy" mentality to the "renting-works-just-great-at-this-point-in-time" mentality, but with encouragement from Stevejhx and others including a hypnotist, i can acquire it. "

Before you shift, make sure when you do your calculations, you include one very important variable that all the "buy doomsayers" have been conveniently ignoring: the mortgage interest tax deduction.

For someone in the 33% tax bracket or higher, with a $1500/month or so mortgage, this could knock as much as $1000/month off of your monthly housing costs.

In my own case, when I moved out of my $1700/month rental into a co-op with a total monthly cost of $2100/month, my income tax refund jumped from an average of $2800 to $14,000 ... lowering the REAL monthly cost of my co-op to just under $1200/month.

FYI, despite the widespread report of falling rents, my old landlord is still renting out my old place for $1700/month.

where's inonada when you need him.

33% of $2100 is $700, no? that would be the MAXIMUM benefit you could reap. and that would mean 0 toward principal and none of your maintenance toward common charges.

33% federal another 10% in state and city taking it to a marginal rate of 43% + once you are itemizing the opportunity to throw in a few more goodies
and this person is really claiming 11200 per year or 900 to 950 a month new reduction -- perhaps there is no maintenance or some creative tax deductions?

"perhaps there is no maintenance or some creative tax deductions?"

I have the same tax deductions I had as a renter. The only thing that changed was my residence.

maybe that was the year of the bush tax reductions?

"Before you shift, make sure when you do your calculations, you include one very important variable that all the "buy doomsayers" have been conveniently ignoring: the mortgage interest tax deduction. "

And also don't make the HUGE mistake we've seen 3 bullls fall for just this past week... forgetting the cost of the down payment, or pretending the "cost" is the down payment x 1% per year. An awful, awful mistake many have been suckered by.