I know everyone is posting comps down, but it is disheartening to see some late condos with higher prices today like this

this isnt a comp because it hasnt sold. they can list it at 5mm for all we care

if you look better you will see that the apt does not appear to be sold on 05/07/2009, probably the agent instead of putting it out of the market selected to make it appear as sold. The same agent went from Elliman to BHS and took the listing with him. The asking price appears to be pretty high if you compare with the last sale recorded in 2008 and with today's market...

This is just an aspirational ask. It isn't selling at this price. If you look at the sale history in the building, the sponsor cut prices and moved a bunch of inventory last spring. After that, sales basically stopped for four months, after which there were four sales in Nov/Dec. All were resales up or down modest amounts from the original purchase price. While this is better resale performance than many new dev condos (i.e., not way down), there is no prospect of someone popping a +29% exit ($1.975mm/$1.530mm) in this building.

#17D
09/05/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $1,625,000.
12/29/2009 Sale recorded for $1,695,000.

#18H
07/24/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $1,075,000
11/24/2009 Sale recorded for $998,500

#16A
06/19/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $1,310,000
11/12/2009 Sale recorded for $1,355,000.

#12A
07/15/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $1,280,000.
11/06/2009 Sale recorded for $1,325,000

this is an broker/owner selling, it was on the market previously as well. I do not think they are in any dire need to move it. I agree the price is high, especially considering 17D sold for 1,695m in december, however i will say that prices have come back up again somewhat in this building compared to when sponsor was selling off the last couple units right after the sh*t hit the fan

The OP is hugely funny - $11,000 a month for 1,200 square feet. Compare it to this:

http://www.rosenyc.com/Portals/0/PropertyFiles/Floors18-282bdrC.pdf

That will cost you $3,600 when you factor in the free month's rent.

And it's in a better neighborhood.

Check out 260 Park Avenue South, the original 2005/2006 buyers have it cheap compared to today's listing. And yes I know listing doesn't equal selling but it gives a mindset into the market.
Steve, thanks for the comparison, I will argue a bit on the neighborhood but not much, although obviously anyone would choose this new condo development over the Rose building if price were equal and I think with a bit of margin, right? :)

I prefer the midtown west venue, Donna, as just north of Chelsea Stratus it gets might nasty. But in any case you can rent in buildings within a block of it @ half the price.

Compare it to this:

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/listings.ASpx?ListingID=1198872

2 blocks from the Ellington listing I posted, & more or less equivalent to the Chelsea Stratus. $8,500 a month to own, $3,600 to rent. You decide.

Oh yeah: THE TAX BREAK!

"And yes I know listing doesn't equal selling but it gives a mindset into the market."

Disagree. The market is made where buyers and sellers actually transact, and that isn't where this listing is.

The listing gives insight into the mindset of one owner. Of course there are other owners with a similar mindset, but again, at a price like this, this owner is in the bleachers observing the market, rather than actually being in it in any substantive way.

If you can't sell your apartment, might as well have a $2 mil apartment you can't sell than a $1.8 mil apartment you can't sell...

"I prefer the midtown west venue, Donna, as just north of Chelsea Stratus it gets might nasty. But in any case you can rent in buildings within a block of it @ half the price."

Huh, really? You've got to be kidding me. You're saying 6th ave in the high 20s is more nasty than 8th ave in the 50s?

Sorry, thats a stretch... I think you're off by a mile.

"If you can't sell your apartment, might as well have a $2 mil apartment you can't sell than a $1.8 mil apartment you can't sell..."

Similarly, if you're a bank stuck with a bad mortgage that you can't sell or securitize, might as well hold it at par rather than marking it at 70 cents...

absolutely....

come on stevejhx... you cant be serious comparing Stratus to World Wide Plaza to the Ellington and considering them to be "more or less" the same product.

I'm comparing a smaller apartment in WWP to the Ellington to make a price comparison between them and Chelsea Stratus. & I'm completely serious. If marble bathrooms are worth $5000 a month to you, go right ahead. But try to rent the place for as much as it costs you to own it - CAN'T be done.

Guess price wasn't that aspirational after all--Chelsea Stratus 23B closed on April 1st for $1,894,000.

Why is it disheartening? Don't we want the market to improve?

HAHA
Loser Renters
And John Paulson, who made money with the crash in housing, and made money with the uptick, says housing is great right now. Who do you want to listen to instead? Stevejhx who can't even afford a marble bathroom even in the middle of rathole 8th Avenue and 50th street.

"I'm comparing a smaller apartment in WWP to the Ellington to make a price comparison between them"

Yes, please do compare the 1200 sqft apartment in the OP with a "smaller apartment" (a.k.a your place at the Ellington) which you wrongly claimed was 1200 sqft. The laughs just keep on coming.

Smaller, rental finishes, people hanging out with two cats.

Great ratings, recommended by 14% of the people: http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/NY-New-York-The-Ellington.html

Here's some reviews by tenants on this ultra luxury:

Moving time NO 3.0 I've lived here for almost 6 years. As with anything there are plusses and minuses but the pendulum has been swinging more towards the minuses for the past 1 to 2 yrs

This building sucks for several reasons

Stay Away From This Rip-off

not bad not great

And my favorite, because the Ellington is actually just a really tall walk-up:
Elevator UNACCEPTABLE

Quick, hide this discussion. 24% increase in 24 months is too good to be true, we can't let the renters see this or they might question all of the rental math.

> And it's in a better neighborhood.

You must be kidding.... not even close. 52nd and 8th? Jeez, thats horrible over there.

Stratus is one block over from possibly the most expensive building downtown (1 Madison Square Park) and a block from Madison Square Park and in the middle of one of the best food/culture zones out there today. The madison square park are is far and away a better neighborhood on most fronts - food, parks, people, culture.

> says housing is great right now.

Yeah, in the rest of the country. After years of bulls saying "NY is not like the rest of the US", suddenly we are?

Funny.

"come on stevejhx... you cant be serious comparing Stratus to World Wide Plaza to the Ellington and considering them to be "more or less" the same product. "

I know... and he accuses the bulls of bias.

You're talking about comparing one of the higher end buildings in town in one of the higher end neighborhoods.... to a location where folks with money generally refuse to live.... and fairly medicore buildings.

Nobody look at this purchase in 2007 in a new condo that sold for 24% higher price. Remember, it doesn't matter, you have to pay 6% commission and have open houses with strangers. Ignore this transaction.

I thought this discussion was being deleted by the people who don't want you to see that someone could have bought at the "height of the market" in early 2007 and made money on a recent sale.

those poor people. wait until they realize extel is building a huge hotel next door and they not only will live above a construction site but that the 30 story tower will make their primary view go bye bye.

looks like it sold for 1.557m in 2008

and $1.894m in 2010.

Flmao. Go ballz deep dabullz, let's see you do a few $1.5mm purchase in NYC in 2010 and sell for $1.9mm in 2011. Come on NYC re only goes up!!!!!!

So you're the one using up all the $6k tax credits....... Lmao. Let's see the tape in 6 months....when these things occur
1) bank regs -> kicks banks' comps in the Jimmy;
2) no extension of 99 week fed unemployment bennies;
3) expiration of home tax credits;
4) no more dry powder of lemmings who sidestepped the initial downturn but went ballz deep for 20% off bubble prices;
5) slow march up in interest rates.
Hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I'm thumbs are so hoarse from laughing so much!!!!!!! Hahhhahahahajajajjajaajaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I'll rub it in your lemmings faces in 1 yr time. Flmao.

the broker who bought it worked for the same firm who repped the building and got insider pricing. many apartments at the stratus were broker owned. i still can't believe he found someone to pay that much money for that place but good for him.

Everybody look away. If you can't look away and ignore this very favorable sale that proves the opposite of what many here have been saying, then the excuses are the following:
1) real estate is supposed to go down next year, ignore that real estate is up this year since a 2007 or 2008 purchase. Next year. Next year.
2) the person who owned it was a broker who worked for the same broker as the developer, so this doesn't count
3) ignore the man behind the curtain. Next year. Next year. This doesn't count.

By the way, w67thstreet, where are you from? And who are you trying to pretend to be or be better than?

one sale proves nothing.

Yep, I noticed that too jasonkyle, that the seller was a broker. The buyer is curiously a cash buyer with, if I recall correctly, a couple of other properties that are several million each. I don't know if there's a connection here, or if it's really arm's length. It could be a "you buy my Connecticut property for list, I'll buy your Manhattan property for list" type of thing, or it could be real.

The thing that makes it most strange is that here we have 23B closing for $1.894M on 4/01/2010, and 3 weeks earlier 20B closed for $1.675M on 3/10/2010. A 13% premium for what amounts to the exact same condo is strange, IMO. If I was that buyer, and I paid 13% more than an exact comp that closed within 3 weeks, and it was an arm's length transaction, boy I'd be pissed.

1) real estate is supposed to go down next year, ignore that real estate is up this year since a 2007 or 2008 purchase. Next year. Next year.
2) the person who owned it was a broker who worked for the same broker as the developer, so this doesn't count
3) one sale proves nothing. It was only one even though there should be none
4) it was an inside deal and fraud probably was involved. Must be fraud, can't be real, of if it is, it's just one
5) ignore the man behind the curtain. Next year. Next year. This doesn't count, it was only one and it was fraud, or I think it might have been. Next year. Next year.

Dabullzzzzzzzz...... we are NOT standing in your way... the Whole of the Rushmore is yours to buy!

Fact: it's only one.

Fact: another untruth by columbiacounty.
Just above someone posted 20B that sold for more in 2010 than its prior sale in 2008.
This untruth by the person who said that 25% of all American homeowners "lost everything and then some" - however it is that he thinks you can have less than nothing - and then when challenged, quickly said 16% instead of 25%. Though he has yet to backtrack on how 1 in every 6 American homeowning families has nothing (or less than nothing).

> 1) real estate is supposed to go down next year, ignore that real estate is up this year since a
> 2007 or 2008 purchase.

Only if you don't know math, or have a different definition of the word, well, UP.

> Next year. Next year.
You mean like the bulls, saying things would turn up?

I thought this thread was going to be deleted because rising values even for new condos were something that the rental lobby doesn't want seen.

>> the broker who bought it worked for the same firm who repped the building and got insider pricing. many apartments at the stratus were broker owned. i still can't believe he found someone to pay that much money for that place but good for him.

jasonkyle and nada:
This transaction strikes me as odd given what we just learned about cash consideration versus total consideration on all cash transactions. It may have been an arm's length transaction -- but I'd love for someone to ask what the net consideration was, not just cash consideration.

1) real estate is supposed to go down next year, ignore that real estate is up this year since a 2007 or 2008 purchase. Next year. Next year.
2) the person who owned it was a broker who worked for the same broker as the developer, so this doesn't count
3) one sale proves nothing. It was only one even though there should be none
4) it was an inside deal and fraud probably was involved. Must be fraud, can't be real, of if it is, it's just one
5) there's another example of a profitable recent sale in the building, not as profitable as the first sale, so we should pretend it is not real either for different reasons
6) ignore the man behind the curtain. Next year. Next year. This doesn't count, it was only one and it was fraud, or I think it might have been. Next year. Next year.

"...the number of homes repossessed during April is at an all-time high of 92,432. That is a 45% increase over April 2009. If repossessions continue at this pace, more than 1.1 million homes will be lost in 2010."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/13/real_estate/april_foreclosures/index.htm

> And it's in a better neighborhood.

Don't mind Steve. He's a tourist from Ohio who eats at Olive Garden. He thinks Times Square / Clinton is the best neighborhood in town. Next week, Red Lobster!

I'm not sure why Steve's state of origin is relevant. Or why if a family eats at the Olive Garden or Red Lobster, there's something wrong. If a family is stable and focused on the long-term, that is what counts. Home ownership is the most sensible alternative for most classes in American society who don't need government support.

>> 2) the person who owned it was a broker who worked for the same broker as the developer, so this doesn't count

Uh, yes. Until the total consideration is available, it doesn't count. Period.

>> 6) ignore the man behind the curtain. Next year. Next year. This doesn't count, it was only one and it was fraud, or I think it might have been. Next year. Next year.

Glen Beck, is tha'chu?

That's right, when the evidence doesn't say what you want, question the veracity of the evidence.

And no, Glen Beck is not me. Is Glen Beck a proxy for someone who disagrees with you? Or are you saying that you believe that home ownership is only sensible for Republicans or conservatives?

I think it makes sense for Democrats as much as Republicans.

Home ownership is the most sensible alternative for most classes in American society who don't need government support.
Hey Dabulls, when is your next tea party? I'll stop by for coffee ...

"Home ownership is the most sensible alternative for most classes in American society who don't need government support."

That statement is a joke, right?

No we don't want the market to improve-it's overpriced and needs to correct. Whether it does or not I can't tell you. It went up too much too fast. Prices are still off the wall