considering buying now in Williamsburg ...

maybe, 1000 sqft probably puts you in a 2BR, right? Unless you're looking for a larger 1BR (which do exist, but at that size, the pickings are a bit slimmer). In the 300-400k range, you probably won't find anything in the way of new condos around the Bedford or Lorimer stops, but may have luck in the resale arena, which is less exciting, but usually less risky as well. If you want to stick to new construction, that probably means buildings past the Graham stop, now affectionately known as East Williamsburg. For me, it's not nearly as desirable an area, but there are certainly those who love it. I'd say run a search in your price range, see which buildings you like, then check the school zoning maps to see where you could send your kids (and do a little research on those schools, obviously). Hope that helps - good luck!

"Looking for something in the 300-400 range, around 1000sq ft."

There is nothing in Williamsburg worth $300-$400K. 1000 square feet for 200K would be a maximum price.

Matt, that's so uninformed, you might as well drop the NYC from your name.

No, it's QUITE informed. I'm keenly aware of what a toilet Williamsburg is -- I served out my sentence there. It's fine for when you're in your 20s and you need a cheap place to live and you don't care about living around squalor, but eventually you grow up, move out, and start living like a real human.

bjw2103

my thoughts exactly!

Pretty ridiculous Matt. Stick to WaHi editorials.

You're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have compared Williamsburg to a toilet.

It's more like a really dirty sink.

When did NYCMatt join the nutjob club?

Pointless comments Matt...who's asking you? Are you addressing any question or concern from the OP like schools, L-train issues, neighborhood?

Why not start your own thread for this if you feel so strongly? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this brings down the forum's utility.

"Are you addressing any question or concern from the OP like schools, L-train issues, neighborhood?"

Very well.

The schools are among the worst in the city.

The L train, once the worst train line in the city, has cleaned up its act, but it's still not as reliable as most of the other lines. And the big issue with the L train is that if it goes down, you're shit out of luck -- depending on where you are in Williamsburg, there are no other train options (and spare me mentioning the "G" train - aka the Train to Nowhere that is even more unreliable than the L).

Another major inconvenience with Williamsburg is LEAVING Williamsburg. You live in Brooklyn, but you might as well live in Staten Island, given how isolated you are from the rest of Brooklyn. For most parts of Brooklyn, you have to take the L train into another borough (Manhattan), transfer, and come back into Brooklyn. Lather rinse and repeat to get back home.

And as far as commuting into Manhattan, unless your destination is the 14th Street corridor, for the vast majority of the time, you are TWO trains away from the entire world. Midtown? Two trains. SoHo? Two trains. TriBeCa? Two trains. Wall Street? Two trains. Upper West Side? Two trains. Upper East Side? Two trains? Other parts of Brooklyn? Two trains. Your entire life will revolve around one word: TRANSFER.

These inconveniences wouldn't be quite so bad if the neighborhood itself were a nice destination that you could feel at home in. But alas, it's hardly Brownstone Brooklyn. More like Crappy Industrial Brooklyn. As I mentioned earlier, this is fine if you're 22 and you're all about angst, irony, and edge, but eventually you just want to see trees, pretty buildings, and amenities like nice restaurants, good grocery stores, and perhaps a nice clothing store or two.

FUHGETABBOUTIT!

Not here!

There are plenty of crappy bars, augmented by the requisite gaggle of pierced and tattooed 20-somethings standing outside smoking and puking into the sidewalk. There are a few pizza places ... bodegas that are good for cat food and toilet paper ... but that's about it.

Oh yes, and for some reason there are brand-new shiny condo buildings that look about as out of place in the neighborhood as a homeless man at the 21 Club.

Jeez, Matt. I can tell from the 'transfer' comment what a whiny, self-entitled snob you are.
Glad you hate the neighborhood enough to stay away.

Matt,
And every weekend you are ONE train, and ONE hour away from midtown and points south
and TWO trains and 90 MINUTES away from anything east of 6th avenue.

when i think fine dining i think washington heights
when i hear convenient to tribeca,wall st and the upper east side i think washington heights
when i imagine a clean neighborhood with great supermarkets, no bodegas, and no homeless people on the street... of course you must be referring to washington heights
oh and don't forget the city's best schools are of course in washington heights

At least Washington Heights HAS "fine dining" options.

At least Washington Heights has more than one train that actually goes somewhere.

At least Washington Heights has trees, parks, and green areas.

At least Washington Heights does, in fact, have a few good schools.

Lol...yeah i hear the Zagat guide to washington heights is coming out soon...please expand on what "fine dining" means to you?...i'm guessing your quite the gourmand

Matt, THAT'S where you live? I'm disappointed.

NYCMatt,

Do you have stats to support your claim that "The schools are among the worst in the city." in W'Burg? LOL.

"Another major inconvenience with Williamsburg is LEAVING Williamsburg. You live in Brooklyn, but you might as well live in Staten Island, given how isolated you are from the rest of Brooklyn. For most parts of Brooklyn, you have to take the L train into another borough (Manhattan), transfer, and come back into Brooklyn. Lather rinse and repeat to get back home."

This is true but does not make it impossible to travel throughout Brooklyn. W'Burg has the B61 bus which I take to DT Brooklyn too continue my travels throughout Bklyn which is not that often.

"And as far as commuting into Manhattan, unless your destination is the 14th Street corridor, for the vast majority of the time, you are TWO trains away from the entire world. Midtown? Two trains. SoHo? Two trains. TriBeCa? Two trains. Wall Street? Two trains. Upper West Side? Two trains. Upper East Side? Two trains? Other parts of Brooklyn? Two trains. Your entire life will revolve around one word: TRANSFER."

Today's, society a lazy society, both rich and poor want all features in the snap of a finger.

I do understand and agree with you :o).

"Today's, society a lazy society, both rich and poor want all features in the snap of a finger."

The snap of the finger is one thing.

Spending two hours in the subway every day is quite another.

Glad i seem to have started a lively discussion! NYCMatt's comments are what i used to feel about wburg, but i really thought it was changing and am interested in the differing perspectives. We are definitely all over the map in terms of where we are looking, but the list includes: ditmas park, parts of washington heights(husdon heights/ft george], inwood , harlem, jackson heights. I know we wont be happy without about 900+ sq feet, other than that it is very hard to prioritize the various other issues at play, such as conveniences, parks, shops, commute and all that, which is why we are all over the place. The school issue would be down the road so probably by the time that were an issue, we could move for a better school if needed - so resale potential of what we buy now is a factor. We are looking for a good solid deal with enough pros to outweigh the cons since nothing's perfect (by the way, "perfect" , which isn't happening, would be 1000sq ft by central park, east or west, for 350K and low monthly costs... :))

"conveniences, parks, shops, commute and all that"

You'll not find that anywhere in Williamsburg.

Stick with your other choices.

Moxie, do you have another useful link on how to engage high-horse-riders? Would be really cool if you do ; )

"Today's, society a lazy society, both rich and poor want all features in the snap of a finger."

"The snap of the finger is one thing."

"Spending two hours in the subway every day is quite another."

It would be quite another thing if commuters did spend two hours commuting on the L train and transferring downtown and/or uptown Manhattan which is untrue. Actually, I like transferring from the L to another train :o).

Rye, Motorino, Egg, Brooklyn Star, Marlow & Sons (not Burger King, McDonalds, Olive Garden, KFC) are in N. and S. Williamsburg - some of NY's best chefs have and continue to move to Williamsburg. Simply read the restaurant reviews in the NYTimes or New York Magazine. APC Surplus, Paul Smith - two international brands/designers with stores in Soho AND Williamsburg. Not Brooklyn Heights. Not Midtown. Not Washington Heights. No the East Village. Hollander and Lexer sells brands like Rag & Bone and Engineered Garments. These are high end stores. Mini Jake is one of the best kids stores in New York. NYCMatt, I don't disagree with all your points. But you are completely incorrect about the stores and restaurants. Diane von Furstenburg one of the first to settle in the far Village Village and in the Meat Packing, was recently asked where she thought the next hot area will be. She replied Brooklyn.

"Brooklyn."

It's a big borough, m'dear. She didn't say "Williamsburg".

I understand Brooklyn is a big borough. She said Brooklyn. Not Washington Heights or any other place in Manhattan for that matter. Point is, she is an innovator who sees the potential outside of Manhattan unlike people like you who think living anywhere on the island (even if it is in "Canada") is superior to anywhere else.

maybemoving: Williamsburg is worth considering and exploring.

W'Burg the IT HOOD.

Washington Heights, NYCMatt?!? While that I guess that technically qualifies as Manhattan, bottom line it's about as lame as it gets. Seriously. Don't be a total retard. Williamsburg has lots of great restaurants and things to do.

NYCMatt, sorry, but these last few posts of yours are among the most idiotic and ill-informed I've seen on this board (which is saying something). For s's and g's, let's go through your "points":

"The schools are among the worst in the city."

Complete bs. I'd agree these aren't the best schools in the city, but there are some good options here - this discussion has been done to death on Streeteasy, but 132, 17, 84 are all good and/or much improved. The DOE reports and anecdotal evidence say as much. As always, would love to see your sources.

"The L train, once the worst train line in the city, has cleaned up its act, but it's still not as reliable as most of the other lines. And the big issue with the L train is that if it goes down, you're shit out of luck"

The major knock on the L is that it's crowded - very true, especially around 8:30am or so. Otherwise, it's proven to be as reliable as any other line out there - the MTA deserves real kudos for the improvements. As for the other options which you continually ignore, there's the J/Z and looks like the V is nearly a done deal to replace the M route in Brooklyn (and consequently provide direct access to the village, midtown, and UES), which is a game-changer in many ways. Sorry, but you're totally off, even if we accept your comments on the G as fact and completely ignore the buses, which provide an easy link to downtown Brooklyn.

"And as far as commuting into Manhattan, unless your destination is the 14th Street corridor, for the vast majority of the time, you are TWO trains away from the entire world."

Oh no, two trains - heaven forbid. First, the V changes this, but regardless, you're ignoring the crucial fact that all 14th St transfers provide access to express trains, which means getting anywhere in Manhattan is quick, even with a transfer. Sounds like you're making a fuss out of very very little. I've found it to be a non-issue.

"this is fine if you're 22 and you're all about angst, irony, and edge, but eventually you just want to see trees, pretty buildings, and amenities like nice restaurants, good grocery stores, and perhaps a nice clothing store or two."

This is the kicker - this isn't Brooklyn Heights, for sure, but there are some very nice blocks and buildings, and amenities, restaurants, and shopping are about as plentiful and high quality as you can find in Brooklyn, if not most of Manhattan. You're absolutely delusional or just plain uninformed if you really believe this. Get a clue.

maybemoving - as bjw said, for that kind of space in that price range, you will probably be past the Graham stop on the L. The area is not bad and it has it's own little retail strips with good restaurants, shops, and what not. However it's probably never going to be as nice or trendy as prime Williamsburg. That being said, realistically, any place where you can get 900+ square feet for 300-400k is going to involve some compromises.

As for Williamsburg as a whole, it's a great place to live. There are some things it's missing. If you belong to a chain gym (NYSC, Equinox, etc), you won't find it there. There are also no movie theaters showing mainstream new releases. There are organic grocery stores (Sunac, Khim's), and regular grocery stores (Associated), so that won't really be a problem. The L is crowded, but reliable. Depending on where in Williamsburg you end up, the J/Z and the V (once they re-route it onto the M line this summer) will be good options. And despite how much people grumble, the G is a pretty useful little train.

I say go look around and see what you think.

i live in the burg and have off/on for the past 5 years. i enjoy it. the commute is VERY easy and the best part is that the L train cuts across almost every subway line in Manhattan. so sure, you might have to transfer once, but you can really get anywhere you want to from the L. regarding getting other places, if you have a car, you can jump on the BQE and be almost anywhere in brooklyn in 10 minutes.

the burg is certainly it's own hood and industrial in nature, but that appeals to some people.

matt, you sound like a hater and a prick, pretty much what i would expect from a guy who still lives in his mom's basement. don't come round the burg lest you learn a lesson.

"sure, you might have to transfer once, but you can really get anywhere you want to from the L. regarding getting other places"

Gosh golly, you can say that about living on ANY subway line.

Once you're in the system, of course you can go ANYWHERE.

The point is, having to face a transfer ALL THE FREAKING TIME gets old very fast.

"Gosh golly, you can say that about living on ANY subway line.
Once you're in the system, of course you can go ANYWHERE."

Cool - tell me how one takes the subway from Washington Heights to the Upper East Side. If transferring is such a hassle to you, I wonder what kind of pampered existence you must have on 178th St.

Buying RE is Williamsburg is about the stupidest thing you could. Many reasons.

The only one defending buying in Williamsburg is BJW who is trying to pump up his own investment.

I actually like hanging out there sometimes. But it is a horrible investment for many reasons

I think its a pretty chill neighborhood and a nice close get away from manhattan. Ivebeen livin in manhattan since 1997 so yes I do feel qualified to make that statement. for me at least!

doesn't almost anyone who needs to travel from east/west and north/south within the same trip need to transfer at least once? at least with the L you don't have to deal with a bus. and if you're headed to the east or west village, chelsea, union square etc you don't even have to transfer.

my friend lived on west 156th/bway and worked on east 58th/2nd. THAT always sounded like a difficult commute.

petrfitz' MO: show up on Williamsburg threads to rant about the "horrible investment," how it's filled with gangs and toxins and what not; when confronted, go ad hominem, rant about "unbuilt capacity" and other fanciful notions that exist in his mind; when presented with facts contradicting said notions, disappear from the thread entirely, only to restart the cycle in a future thread. Such is the life of a troll.

cheeseburger, in my Columbia days (and I'm talking the medical campus on 168th), I lived on 78th/Mad. At least I was close to the crosstown bus, but still, not much fun.

"I think its a pretty chill neighborhood and a nice close get away from manhattan."

If you want something "nice close get away from manhattan" that's also a good investment, buy in Brooklyn Heights.

"doesn't almost anyone who needs to travel from east/west and north/south within the same trip need to transfer at least once? "

Not necessarily. If you choose your neighborhood wisely, you're only ONE train away from 90% of where you need to go and what you want to do.

In other words, if you work and socialize on the East Side, live on the East Side. If you work and socialize primarily on the West Side, you have an entire swath of Manhattan from the Financial District to the Washington Heights that puts you only ONE train away from everything.

"Cool - tell me how one takes the subway from Washington Heights to the Upper East Side."

If you've paid attention to my posts in the "Washington Heights" thread, you'd know that I recommended AGAINST living in Washington Heights if you routinely need to get to the Upper East Side.

"In other words, if you work and socialize on the East Side, live on the East Side. If you work and socialize primarily on the West Side, you have an entire swath of Manhattan from the Financial District to the Washington Heights that puts you only ONE train away from everything."

And if you work and socialize anywhere below say 23rd St, how is living in Williamsburg inconvenient - you're ONE train away from all that. And with the V, that ups the one-train coverage area in Manhattan considerably. Or are you going to continually ignore the facts?

"you'd know that I recommended AGAINST living in Washington Heights if you routinely need to get to the Upper East Side"

Or anywhere downtown really. It's quite a schlep.

"In other words, if you work and socialize on the East Side, live on the East Side..."

Are you supposed to move every time you get a new job? Or make a new friend who lives in a different neighborhood? It certainly seems like less of a hassle to just transfer trains.

"Are you supposed to move every time you get a new job?"

One would hope that someone buying a home has a stable employment situation such that job-hopping wouldn't be necessary.

Matt, I'm sorry that you're probably stuck in some low level job that you can't escape, but many of us advance throughout our careers and take opportunities when they arrise to make more money and gain more diverse experience.

I seriously hope to God you're not still in the same job you took right after college.

"Matt, I'm sorry that you're probably stuck in some low level job that you can't escape, but many of us advance throughout our careers and take opportunities when they arrise to make more money and gain more diverse experience.

I seriously hope to God you're not still in the same job you took right after college."

****

I appreciate your concern.

I haven't been "low level" since I lived in Williamsburg.

Matt's just a hater. Don't feed the d-bags.

TWO trains away from the entire world---
i live in the east village and i am 2 trains away from my job in chelsea!
are you sure you live in nyc?

Compare Wburgh with 116th Lenox...It seems that Central Harlem has the better deals and you're still on the island near the park. We are considering both areas for buying, but am I missing something about Wburgh that should be considered?

NYCMatt, what are the fine dining options in Washington Heights?

williamsburg's got the grime

harlem's got the crime

Bloomsday ---- bburg has lovely restaurants galore. Uptown has not so much. In fact, it makes one cry how restaurant devoid uptown is -----------

perfitz - don't know what your beef is, but i'm an owner, and the owners here are happy, live in a fantastic neighborhood - do not know what neighborhood would be considered better by anyone who lives here. it's convenient to where most would work, has a waterfront that improves daily, easy bqe access, 5 trains and the B62 bus. a great park a pool that's coming, etc... when the actual area where you live has all these advantages, how, exactly, is it a bad investment? what does that mean?? seriously, i'm a saavy buyer who's bought several times and always made money. if i thought after several years here that it was a bad decision, i'd have moved on to a different hood already.
also, i have a kid, and can testify that this area has the best parents community and flourishing programs and schools that aren't overcrowded. there are 2 accessibly schools with great programs in district 14 - that is amazing.

falcogold1,

Cut the nonsense.

wisco,
do you know why red sox fans hate the yankees but not the orioles? even though the orioles are in the same division they have not caused pain that the yankees have caused. this is why perfitz has such an issue with bburg and not other nabes. he is a lanlord on the l.e.s who rents to young professionals. where do you think a lot of his potential renters moved in the last decade? his disdain is a result of bburg's draining of his clientele. Bburg is like the 2004 red sox for perfitz it came out of nowhere to steal something that was traditionally always his.
bloomsday,
i just made the exact decision you are faced with now. there are several points which should be kept in mind to make an effective comparison: where do u work?,where do you go out?,how important are restaurants?,How important is food delivery?,how important is street noise?...ect
Also it is unfair to pick a specific place(116th and Lenox) and try and compare it to an entire large nabe. There are parts of Bburg that i feel are superior to that location(for me), and parts of Bburg that are inferior to that location(for me). In order to get a true comparison you should more clearly define what area of Bburg you are referring to.

comparing bburg to the sox isn't going to garner burg any additional fans on this board

the sox suck - just like hoboken new jersey...................

God, Moxie. That was brilliant.

in case you didn't notice gb bburg doesn't have many fans on this board...oh and it was simply an analogy..nxt time i will choose a more innocuous example..thx jmg

Williamsburg is a great neighborhood for cool layed back people. Kids or no kids. It's got a convenient location when you consider the entire NYC metro area (with 1 transfer you can be just about anywhere. That's no different that UWS or UES) The neighborhood is quite and peaceful compared to most in Manhattan. There are TONS of kids so if the schools aren't here yet, they will be. Dollar for dollar, I'm here to tell you this neighborhood is hands down the best value in Metro New York. Furthermore, I suspect their are only two types of people who would bad mouth this great neighborhood; 1. Rich snobs who can afford to live with other rich snobs, or 2. ignorant wannabe rich snobs who can neither afford to live with rich snobs nor accept the fact that they have to live with the rest of us! In my opinion, nobody in this neighborhood really cares to have either type move here anyway, which is another reason the neighborhood is so cool!

'Cut the nonsense.'
what nonsense?
Williamsburg is a garden spot?
Harlem doesn't have a note-worthy crime rate?
I could say some nice things too...
The general undesirability of both locations makes larger spaces more affordable.
If you need exercise there are some beautiful new developments in Billyburg that are incredibly far from mass transit that the daily hike will be good for your heart. I have visited both areas and considered them as both investments and a home for myself....
IT IS WHAT IT IS!
If either place is for you...enjoy in good health.
There is always the ignore button if the truth becomes too much to bare.

"If you want something "nice close get away from manhattan" that's also a good investment, buy in Brooklyn Heights."

If you want a good investment, first look up what investment means (Matt doesn't know), and look somewhere other than Brooklyn Heights... and then don't live in it (owner-occupied RE is not an investment).

"Rye, Motorino, Egg, Brooklyn Star, Marlow & Sons (not Burger King, McDonalds, Olive Garden, KFC) are in N. and S. Williamsburg - some of NY's best chefs have and continue to move to Williamsburg."
"Simply read the restaurant reviews in the NYTimes or New York Magazine.

I do... Carroll Heights / Cobble Hill / Boreum are tops in Brooklyn.
Check out where the Michelin star restaurants are.
And I believe you are talking about significantly higher concentration as well (WB is a very big neighborhood)

> "APC Surplus, Paul Smith - two international brands/designers with stores in Soho AND Williamsburg."

Naming 2 specific stores... wow. You could probably come up with one of those for all the close Brooklyn neighborhoods.

> Not Brooklyn Heights. Not Midtown. Not Washington Heights. No the East Village.

By your logic, a list of things in Evillage and not in WB will counteract. That would be fairly easy.

But really, the logic is bunk.

"Diane von Furstenburg one of the first to settle in the far Village Village and in the Meat Packing, was recently asked where she thought the next hot area will be. She replied Brooklyn."

Did she say Williamsburg?

You do get that most of Brooklyn is not williamsburg.

as always somewhereelse doesn't let data get in the way of his opinions. in 2009 there were only 3 places in brooklyn that received michelin stars: dressler,peter luger and saul. they each received 1 michelin star. peter luger and dressler are both in williamsburg and saul is in cobble hill.
btw where the hell is Carrol Heights or Boerum for that matter? Did u mean Carroll Gardens and Boerum hill?

moxie - well, to answer your question, in north WB, west of the BQE, but have been to every restaurant, shop and hood from North Greenpoint to South WB to Bushwick. i love it all. i use all the transportation regularly. also, i work in SOHO, and need to bring things home all the time, so find the proximity to the bridge great - it's only 12 minutes for me in a car service.
the park, the waterfront, the Y, maxim gym, ms j's gymnastics, are all places that i'm regularly at.

for schools, 132, 34, and 31 are amazing. 31 is one of the top 3 grade schools in the city. it's also a magnet school which means you do not need to be zoned to get in. also, 84 is a magnet. they have dual language spanish classes and are bringing in dual language french.
i have friends all over the area and socialize constantly, i mean constantly. have a blast. wonderful, easy going people.
i think the top attractions are restaurants, music venues, unique shops - especially the furniture and clothes shops, excellent hair salons, galleries, and yes, you can find a great bar. also, the old italian joints on metropolitan are terrific - butcher, fish shop, deli and a bakery all with in a couple of blocks.

if you have a car, queens is right there with the big stores like you find in the burbs - favs are pathmark, old navy and target, but you can find everything. also a cosco.
also in queens which is walkable/bike-able, ps1, socrates sculpture park, restaurants on vernon blvd and the waterfront piers.

wisco,
while i appreciate hearing your review of the hood(also soon to be mine north bburg west of the bqe) you will notice my earlier post was split into 2 parts. the part u responded to was meant for bloom who is trying to compare 116th and lenox to the entire bburg area. the explanation of perfitz' angst was for u.

thisclose to closing on apt in n. w'burg. was hanging out there this entire weekend with friends who had never experienced the area. over the course of 2 days we ate brunch at Egg and Dresslers, bowled and drank brews at brooklyn bowl, dinner at motorino, bar hopping sat night, tennis in the park both days. and of course just walking about the hood popping in stores and galleries. i have always had an affinity for warehouse districts with its distinctive architecture. needless to say my friends were all impressed. one would need quite a thick skull not to see what is happening there and to appreciate the potential. w'burg is passing thru the familiar phases we've seen in many other transitional hoods in the past-soho, tribeca etc..first come the artists looking for cheap space, then some bars and eateries, the buzz starts to take hold and the area gets condo development. that's where we are now. yet to come are the professional services-doctors, lawyers-to support the self-sustaining hood. that is just beginning.
on a more personal note the area feels alive, fresh and new. having lived in the west village(26yrs) and the HK(4yrs) i can tell you those areas feel stale and overdone. the west village especially has become an overpriced boutique, completely devoid of its edginess and creative spirit. w'burg has an abundance of that and if and when it goes the way of Soho i will move on. in the meantime looking forward to biking to my offices in chelsea and the west village from my new home

I'm another big fan of Williamsburg. We took some relatives from NJ to Dressler's last year, and they returned on their own for another meal. Fatty Cue, from the owners of the Fatty Crab, recently opened on Bedford with a nice review from the NYT. Restaurants in the East Village (eg Momofuku Ko and Noodle) are only one stop away!