What do people do for a living?

lol

marco, keeping another woman on the side, divorce, having more children increase demand for housing. Feel better?

Hahaaha admin. Letz just say my wife and I have been together a long long time. I don't see the point in being in a loveless marriage. What's the point if you don't want 'love' in a marriage. Maybe it's reading Jane eyre when I was way too impressionable, but I do believe in 'true' love but I can also read divorce statistics. :)

'romantic statisician'?

is this valentines day on the se orthodox calendar?

Sorry I'm totally not doing justice to my post on se. I'm babbling tonite.

Flmao. Marco. Best post on this thread

w67, you are disappointing your biggest (and only) fan here but i'm very proud of you for noticing it.

i know for a fact, love and sex are available for those that are not married.

I got half way through the 2nd page. I see people bashing a woman for being a stay-at-home mom and then bashing other women for "outsourcing" child care. Besides being the usual bitter,vituperative conversation, women literally cannot do right.

I get on this blog and wonder if I really want to move back to Manhattan.

I'm reading Gayle Haggard's wonderful new book, "Why I Stayed", and I strongly recommend it to all those struggling with these family life issues. Inspiring....

>>> I see people bashing a woman for being a stay-at-home mom and then bashing other women for "outsourcing" child care. Besides being the usual bitter,vituperative conversation, women literally cannot do right.

Not everybody is bashing one choice or the other. I see a lot of voices not bashing either one - myself, notadmin, nyc10023. Honestly, I think it's up to the individual family to do what works for them. I think women can leave themselves exposed, but there are ways around this. Not all of us are judging.

>>> When's the last time you shagged your husband/girlfriend? I f it's been more than a month, your marriage is shit

W67 - I don't care to discuss these specifics of my personal life on this website, but, suffice to say, if you think once/month is good enough, that says everything I need to know.

Lmao. Amazon/admin. Was having my man men-cycle. Teaches me to talk about the true mysteries of marriage/ love. Butz I gotz no doubt on NYC re. ;)

kspeak, i'm a fan of w67th. and that was very, very funny.

By my standards. love means sticking with your man even if he is shagging a male hooker in a motel 6 on crystal meth. Does it get any deeper than that.

touche.... until we meet again.. ksp...

Jimmy.... that's deep...

back to re

The "2 income trap", as someone mentioned, says it all. Once some women started getting good jobs, they bid up the real estate in the good school districts and then all women had to work. Of course there are some men (and women) who make enough money to afford a home in a good school district on one income but not many. The couple must buy a home that they need both incomes to afford because that's how much homes now cost in the good school districts. Then they are twice as likely to get in trouble because if only one of them loses their job or gets sick, or they get divorced, or a parent needs care, they'll lose their house.

This is possibly more relevant to the suburbs but it describes Westchester and New Jersey very well. It's not anyone's fault. They aren't living above their means because they want to - that's what people have to do to get into a good school district.

My mother taught piano lessons before I was born and for a couple years when I was too young to remember. When I was a teenager she spent one whole afternoon in a store selling oriental rugs, before announcing that "it didn't work out." I guess those were the good whole days.

Ok..On the Mike Huckabee Show (let me guess, no one in Manhattan has ever watched it) right now they have Pat Boone, Obama Girl, and Gayle Haggard.

He gotz a show. Hickabee? No shitz.

Why'd admin change handle?

Oh yeahh. That's where I got me r estate insights. And my unctuous manner.

amazon, that is a bit faulty in the logic department. yes, they spend more. yes, the loss of one income is very important. but the loss of one income in a single-income family is, i'd argue, even more disruptive. at least in the two-income scenario you'd still have health insurance, generally.

but it is indisutably true that the two income trend has just increased prices so that two incomes, on average, do what one income used to (or less, on average). so now it's necessary for two people to work.

luckily, or unluckily, i didn't realize it when i decided to stay at home. there's zero room for bashing decisions in this area. it's personal, and often there is little choice. even with choice, it's very difficult.

jim, thanks for the book recommendation. i'll pick it up.

Ar, crazy man crazy times we live in. It's hard enough with a 'modern' marriage then throw in this housing bubbble. Just f'ed up an entire generation. Fwiw, I like my litttle se commune. But I miss cc.

Didn't you recommend the book? The second, non-working person was in reserve. If the first person became disabled, or unemployed the second person could jump in and work. They used to call it, "having something to fall back on".

I was referring to a few very hateful remarks - you don't work therefore you're useless, shouldn't even offer an opinion (which I've seen before aimed at you aboutready) - and - if you don't stay home with your kids, you will lose their love and your husband will not find you sexy anymore.

>>> unluckily, i didn't realize it when i decided to stay at home. there's zero room for bashing decisions in this area. it's personal, and often there is little choice. even with choice, it's very difficult

Well said. I'll also pick up the book.. Not surprisingly, my view on "stick it out at all costs" is in the middle. A lot of people probably call it quits too early, but people change, situations change; you can't always make it work, and life is too short. As I've said before, the divorce rate for people with college degrees who marry after age 26 is only 20%. That's pretty good actually ...

i think cc's busy these days. which is good, yes? but maybe we can entice him back into the fold.

crazy times, indeed. the "modern" marriage is a mere luxury, only to be indulged by the likes of the perelmans, trumps, etc. where are we when the modern marriage is accessible to so few?

20 years wedding anniversary this april. can you guess the day of the month?

Yikes, I need to be more careful with the book recommendations. If anyone read Gayle Haggards book about how to cope with your husband's fling-on-crystal-meth-in-a-motel-six-with-a-male-prostitute let me know if it's as tantalizing as it sounds. I'm sure on some level it would relate to my personal problems, but right now it's hard to see how.

Although I do think 67 should read it.

amazon, i've recommended a few other books, but not that one. but i'm not sure if your comment was aimed at me.

ignore the troll. hell, ignore my responses to the troll. there's no room for such hatred, anywhere. somebody six months or so ago went so far as to offer the delightful and factual information that my husband must be f'ng around. why? i'd guess because i believe RE prices will fall further, but who f'ng knows? why does my decision, which has cost me plenty in many ways, and given me great joy in others, cause such scorn?

jim, actually, that sounds interesting. although perhaps self-absorbed.

The big problem is -- he's still lying to himself (highly likely he is gay), and lying to her, so the whole wifely compassionate forgiveness is based on a false premise that he had some problem and is working through in a long-term resolvable way, but he is just denying reality and sooner or later things will break down again. I think they just need money since he lost his church. It's like the Larry Craig situation. These people are crippled by self-hatred, and then their families pay a terrible price when the facade starts to crumble.

amazon, actually i didn't bring up the two parent trap book. oddly, matt did, but for the wrong reasons. yes, the second income is useful. and very much yes having two people who can be employed is useful. but only to a certain level.

shagging..crytal meth..male hookers..larry craig.... what happened to cap rates? id even settle for stevef right now. lol..this is truly a classic street easy thread

It all relates back to how big an apartment you need, I think. Demand factors.

@Jim>> highly likely he is gay

But he can't be gay, he's married -- and a minister. He was probably in a fraternity, too.

This whole thread just made me appreciate my SO all the more and the fact that we can have intelligent and emotionally thoughtful discussions on this exact topic. Cheers to those who tried to do that here but I'm not sure it was worth it.

I'm not rich, but I'm not poor.
I'm spending less, and saving more.
But, the property taxes are hurting me.
I don't think I could own a condo in Manhattan if I had kids.

I like London, but I wouldn't want to live there.
I didn't go to an Ivy League university.
I'm just a publicist.

I admire the UWS mom.

Thank you, and goodnight.

OK, your friends have a LOT of school loans to pay off. Both spouses have H tuition and H Law tuition to pay off. I assume they have student loans. This is a big factor. It'll take them longer to amass the downpayment unless their rich parents or grandparents help out. Who knows? Maybe they are trustfunders.

They probably want to buy a home that suits their profession and background. I can't imagine they'd start out by buying a studio or a 1 BR in a crappy area to start off and trade up slowly like the rest of us. They probably want to start off with a 2BR apt in a decent nabe to start off.

Many people that I know of started with a 1BR apt and upgraded a few years later and sold for a handsome profit pre-crash. As their incomes rose, they could get a 2BR with the equity in their 1BR and the profit from the sale.

Pre-crash, I tried to save enough downpayment for a home but my income and savings could not match the increase in 20% downpay necessary between 1997-2007. Most people who make under $200k.

But if you are willing to start humbly, in this market, they should be able to buy something.

How did I miss this thread?

just look at the 10 year trend all of the bashing is not necessary. I would like to buy but the trend line needs to stop going SOUTH.

http://curbed.com/archives/2010/02/04/manhattan_housing_prices_doubled_over_past_decade.php