Building Facade and Lobby

it all depends on a person. for me, as long as the facade and lobby are not falling apart, i would care less. i do enjoy paying less in price and maintenance vs another building in same location with a very nice facade and lobby.

i lived in a non-descript, in manhattan terms, white brick coop where the lobby was ehhhh. just a few blocks down, another building with same amenities, smaller apartments, smaller terraces, beige brick and maintenance that was 15%-20% higher was bringing in 10-20% higher price.

in the long run, i saved a substantial amount of money while living on the white brick building rather then the beige brick building. the swings in price % wise was the same.

I walked away from an apartment because of the condition of the building's lobby. It didn't feel pleasant to walk in and it would likely have to get redone in the next few years adding to common charges.

Yes, and take a look around in the basement. Does the laundry room look well-maintained, with fairly new washers and dryers? Does the building have a live-in super? Is the super anywhere to be found (and not hanging out in his office with the door closed)? Does the super wear a uniform and is he actually repairing things? (The super in my building wears a (Usually pink) dress shirt, and dress pants. He seems to do repairs only for the Condo Board of Managers' members' apartments. Who is doing the repairs, is there a maint./handyman on staff? (We have neither, and getting a straight answer from the managing agent (even during her deposition) was like an Abbott and Costello routine.)

We have a lot of questions to ask the President of The Condo Board -- but, she won't show up for her deposition.(Court ordered by the Judge).

A nasty lobby is a HUGE turnoff to many. Who wants to come home to that everyday or to have one's guests draw their first impression from that? How hard is it to have a well-maintained tasteful lobby regardless of the type of space it is?

Plain facade is less an issue, but if it needs work I'd stay away because lord knows just how far gone it is and how deep a rehab would need to go. If water has penetrated down to the support beams, expect a bill that can in 7 digits in some cases. I've been through that once--never again.

Beware of ornate facades that are not fastidiously maintained. A terra cotta facade from 1910 is charming, but if it needs repair (and they all do if it hasn't already been done) brace yourself for the bill. Moulds have to be made for each unique portion, a composite replacement decided upon (real terra cotta replacements are beyond prohibitively expensive), soundings have to be done and if water has penetrated (with old terra cotta you can count on that) you will be tearing apart the facade down to the steel beams inside and rebuilding it. So sometimes too fancy a facade is negative, too.

This is a discussion that I've been having with my husband since we started looking for an apartment. I tend to agree with ab_11218's view that a plain, but well-maintained building exterior and lobby is more than sufficient, but my husband is concerned that buildings with better curb appeal with sell faster in a depressed market. Truth makes an excellent point about carefully checking out the laundry room, storage area, etc. in the basement of a building- clean and neat areas tell alot about how well a building is maintained.

Thanks, Lobster. I know from experience. It's just not the clean and neat factor, it's also the upkeep of the common areas in terms of maintaining them, and the hidden places (like the boiler room) that most people don't ask about, let alone ask to look at.

If you ask to see an area in the basement, and are dissuaded, or refused -- that's not a good sign. The physical plant of the building e.g. the innards, so to speak: the plumbing, piping, gas-lines, ventilation system, heating,etc., are items on a good inspector's check-list.These problems don't show up, in the meeting minutes of the Board.

Those problems have been kept top secret by the Board and managing agent of my building -- for years! Hence : the lawsuit. P.S. I'm winning, BIG TIME! Next court date: March. Likelyhood of the Condo Board President ever showing up for her deposition:HA!HA!

I am interested in hearing how important a building's facade and lobby are in your decision to buy an apartment. Assuming that you like the apartment itself and the building's location, would a non-descript facade and lobby greatly influence your decision to not purchase the apartment? Conversely, would an impressive facade and lobby greatly influence your decision to buy the apartment?

It's very important. First impression's count. A poor facade and worn lobby hurt market values.

I personally would think twice about purchasing in a building with a shabby lobby -- an elegant (which is not to say totally tricked out) lobby is a real pleasure to pass through every day. The exception might be if I was purchasing in a converted commercial/industrial space where a no-frills lobby was part of the ambiance -- like some Soho non-doorman loft buildings I've seen.

And then there's the story about Van Halen and the brown m&m's.....

If they can't keep the lobby and facade maintained, what else is wrong?

Also consider it might be an opportunity. A lobby might turn a lot of folks off. But if you're going to be around 10-20 years, when you can figure any lobby will need a renovation at some point, you have some potential for additional appreciation.

Key is, if the lobby is worth less to you than someone else, don't pay for it. If you value it, pay for it.

> A poor facade and worn lobby hurt market values.

True, but that would also mean you're likely PAYING less as well. And lobbies change.

Also, a lousy lobby is probably more of a hindrance in a crappy market. Good markets, anything sells.

So buying a crappy lobby at a bottom might be a decent strategy.

When people buy old buildings to fix them up. They usually spend money fixing up the lobby, change the kitchen counter's , bathroom cabinets' and leave the 150 year old boiler. I'm exaggerating a little.

This is an interesting question. Of the apartments I've seen, some lobbies stand out as fancy, some as dark or lonely, some as creepy, but most have been forgettable, sort of a non-issue. If everything about the apartment and building were otherwise fine, I don't think a lobby would be a deal breaker on a purchase (like some of the elevators that seem barely functioning would be.) Likewise I wouldn't spend more on an apartment just because of a lobby or a facade.
Lobbies that stand out:
Most churchy: 44 W 77th Street (all it needs is a crucufix and a confessional to become St John South)
Best labyrinth:115 CPW
Most bustling in a fin-de-(last)siecle way: The Ansonia, definitely
Nice and understated art deco: 55 CPW
Crisp modern functionality: Ariel East and West
Most over-rated by real estate rhetoric: 23 W 73rd St (it's just a lobby)
On the weird side: any of those converted fraternal organization/former temple/meeting houses with freaky unknowable symbolic embellishments (like The Pythian in the west 60's, and there's another one in the west seventies called The Levelers Club, or something like that)

I'm in the minority, but I can appreciate a well built/well maintained post war brick apt building. That said, I saw a high floor apt with a set back wrap terrace in the 70's which needed work but it was at the right price(>$1.1 million), so the renovation was built into the cost. The biggest turnoff to the building were the repairs to the building brick on the corner of the street and the avenue. In multiple areas with sections of brick about 5x5 ft the brick didn't match. Not even close. Like white and gray. I couldn't pull the trigger. If I came home every day and saw that, it would have driven me crazy with a job like that. It made me think that they did an adequate, functional repair, but cheaped out in the last minute. I know that brick matching is very hard on a 50 year old building, but I see many 50 year old buildings with cohesive facades.

A poorly maintained lobby and/or facade usually indicates a lack of reserve funds, or unwillingness of the Board to supervise the managing agent in order to operate the Building in a competent manner. This would not be good, any way you look at it.

C.C. raises, assessments, and other problematic situations, are somewhere in the future.

But is non-matching brick really a cost issue? Or just someone retarded.
Is grey brick really so much cheaper? ;-)

But, yes, if its a sign of something, sure. BUt I'm talking about a building that just happened to not have made it fancy.

i would look at the cleanliness factor more. the building that i was in, the board's avg age was 55-60. they needed more then glasses to see the wear and the tear of the lobby. they did see very speck on the floor though and made sure that everything was kept clean.

when i was selling apts in some buildings, i would show up 15 minutes early to clean the entrance way just so we can walk in without tripping.

The lobby doesn't have to be fancy. It should be clean. The facade should be maintained, up to code, and the bricks should be repointed as required. The super should be dressed like a super; and not like he's going out for drinks at a lounge somewhere. There should be a maint./handy man, in addition to a porter.

Even a very beautiful, clean lobby can hide a lot of the building's dirty secrets.

Truth, I'm sorry that you're having so much difficulty with your building super. I've lived in a few buildings where the super was very difficult to find so I know how you feel (although I often saw one frequently hanging out in a local coffee shop during non lunchtime work hours). There are so many things to know about a building before you buy and you're right to point out to us all the problems that can really be going on in a building which you probably won't read about in the board minutes or be able to spot when you view an apartment a few times. I started out asking about if I should be concerned about a plain, but well-maintained building facade and lobby, but I've learned quite a bit more about possible building issues from your posts. Best of luck in your building situation.

Thanks Lobster. I'm cleaning up this building, so to speak. I seem to be the only owner who is willing to straighten this Condo Board out. It's expensive, but ultimately worth it. There are so many other problems, too.
The lobby was renovated in 2000. It's O.K., but the hallways are ugly: bad wallpaper and even worse carpeting. The Condo Board made the decorating choices, without input from the other owners. They have been keeping so many secrets from the Unit owners. They manage and operate this building, as if they were an organized crime group.

I find it interesting that coops are trashed by so many on these boards based on problems posters claim to have with the boards that run them. Yet, here, Truth makes pretty clear that buying a condo hardly obviates the problems one might encounter with a board.

Kyle, I find your posts regarding coop boards very helpful and you always make a great case for living in a coop. I'm assuming that you have a bit more freedom and flexibility in living in a condo as opposed to a coop in terms of doing renovations, etc., but I might be wrong. Most people that I know who live in coops find it comforting that the board really knows what's going on in the building and controls who can live in the building. Not quite an identical situation, but the rental building where I live only allows 2 year leases and we had to supply four recommendations with our application. By far, it's been the best rental building that we've lived in because they are more selective and made the process a little more demanding.

Lobster, you read me right. I'm a considerate, moderate, fairly well-established person. I like living with similar people. As you surely know from reading this board, I've done extensive renovations in a coop in which the super was great and the board reasonably performing its job. I had no problems. In my past coops, the boards were great and when they strayed they quickly got on track again (with my help at times ;)). I've owned in established, well-run buildings. The boards functioned well largely because they had members with backgrounds that made for good management: law, accounting, engineering, real estate, management/business). I know there are bad boards out there, but just don't buy in those buildings! On here, most people bitching about boards come across quickly enough as crackpots or people who seem very challenged in terms of interpersonal skills. Its no wonder they have problems with boards. Most people go their entire life in coops without any incidents whatsoever--that's why the market accepts the coop as a form of ownership for the last 100 years.

I'm sorry but the building exterior is just as important as the interior to me.

I hate those ugly white brick buildings with the exposed ac vents. Ew.

The exterior must be stunning and the lobby magnifique or I don't want it.

I don't understand how people pay millions only to come home to a dingy and depressing building. Yuck!!

All those nasty 1970s highrises on the Upper East Side make me want to vomit.

Oh...and Lincoln Center. I was just there and my God, those "luxury" commie buildings are just fug.

In my experience, The Condo Board of Managers is far worse than a co-op board. Any Board that misuses their power and position to threaten, harass, and retaliate against owners who are requesting necessary repairs, and/or report problems they have concerning the building's super,and/or managing agent--BAD Condo Board!
At least a co-op board is required by law to keep minutes of their regular meetings, and make them available to shareholders(the content of those minutes may be just as censored, untruthful and misleading; but at least you can have an idea of how often the board is meeting.)

In my building, if an owner reports a repair (especially of a building-wide problem) the managing agent refuses to acknowledge the report. If you persist, the Condo Board wastes reserve money on sending a lawyer's letter to the owner; threatening legal action against the owner, for bogus infractions of the bylaws. This usually scares the owner into selling their unit and fleeing the building. At the very least it keeps the owners in line. They don't ask any more questions and are intimidated.

If you have a problem with the super; he harasses you and denies you services and repairs. It's an ongoing systematic campaign , orchestrated by the board, managing agent, super, and the attorney. The objective is to force you out. If you stay, they file a bogus lawsuit against you. They figure that you won't be able or willing to pay for an attorney, and will back down and get out.

Forget trying to run for the board -- they're comprised of the original board-members and the Sponsor (who owns 18 units in a building of only 80 units).Most owners don't even show up for the annual meeting, and most who do sit there like "Stepford wives" and don't ask questions. Most rent out their units and don't live in the Building.

We had a gas shut-down for 5 weeks in July-Aug., 2008. A very nice young couple live here with their toddler son. The husband called the managing agent, a few weeks into the shut down, asking if the owners might be getting a credit on our C.C. bills due to the extra expense of not being able to cook and do laundry (No dryers). The managing agent told him to "Get an attorney".

There's so much more, but you get the drift.

anyone have any experience with redoing a building facade ? Im talking about repointing, new lintels and a couple coats of thorocoat. I think I have pricing down but wanted to see if anyone has any tips on what to be careful of.

I would make sure they put in necessary weep holes

It sounds like some Board of Managers are very effective at achieving their goals ... a bright spot in New York's never-ending housing struggles.

Thanks primer. That helps. I didnt know what those were.

Nice lobby is a must. Whether it's a living room or a foyer.
The facade isn't so important if once you walk inside the building you feel at home and your guests are comfortable. Not so long ago, homes had lousy facades for purposes of keeping the tax man away.

I did not buying a great apartment a few years ago because i was turned off by the shabby lobby. When another apartment in the same building came on the market in the spring i never bothered to see it. Well i passed the building by yesterday, lobby has been redone. it looks gorgeous now! I feel like a fool not to have given the building a chance

Looked at several apartments in Chelsea; apartments all similar but one lobby looked like a college dorm. Never looked there again

Did the turnstyle and security guard turn you off?

hfscomm1

lmnopee1

hfscomm1 confirmed

That's a confirmation? Of what?
Is that how you cheated your clients, friends, acquaintances, business partners, family for years? with false confirmations, false promises, convenient stories, hoping they look the other way?

done and done.

you've confirmed it yet again.

What set you off? Was it a child who smiled? A flower garden at full bloom? What turned you into who you are?

how many times have you said the same thing?

9,203.

how many lives, besides your own, have you ruined?

you tell us.

you're the expert.

So once again, deflecting blame. I'm responsible for the dozens, maybe a hundred, more? lives that you've ruined? You are a joke. A dangerous joke. But still a joke.

hfscomm1

why would that set you off in this manner?

Let me guess ... another complete meltdown is coming within 14 minutes.

hmmn....

how many times have you said that?

9,209.

yes, I've said one thing 9200 times.
How many people's lives have you destroyed?

none.