Harlem Condos New Development Truths

You should base your decision on the square footage that is listed in the offering plan, which is certified by an architect and filed with the AG's office. That is the verifiable square footage that you'll advertise when you sell your apartment. Relying on a broker's sales talk is dangerous - not saying that they all lie, but they have an incentive to lie.

Why would anyone not include a verifiable larger sq footage in the plan if it were true? Come on! Check out 50 West 127th street and/or Loft124...they're both unique and beautiful!

Also fairly good deals (price per square foot) in nearby East Harlem but obviously a less pretty neighborhood.

Brownstone Lane II is defintely lying about the square footage. I was very interested in unit #7A which purports to be 1,410 square feet of interior space. I measured the space as 1,100 square footage. It is listed at $1.325 million ($940 square foot which is $1,000 per square foot with all of the buyer's closing costs). But since it is really only 1100 square feet, that is $1,276 per square foot. Meanwhile, the market price for condos in Harlem near Morningside Park is about $650. Buyer beware. Bring a tape measure and laser measure.

A lot of realtors lie about the square footage. You have to have a good eye and look at it yourself.

Don't they included that with their real estate license coursework:
Course 101 on cheating the suckas outta the sq footage!
#2 gave great advice, The offering Plan is much more realistic to the real sq footage.

HI,

We bought in The Lenox and what they said about the size etc was completely truthful, as we brought in an appraiser before we bought. Our bldg is almost sold out. We love it here and the bldg is friendly and even has get togethers, its really nice to find this in NYC. I found out alot at www.NewNewYorker.com hopefully you can get info as well.

HI,

We bought in The Lenox and what they said about the size etc was completely truthful, as we brought in an appraiser before we bought. Our bldg is almost sold out. We love it here and the bldg is friendly and even has get togethers, its really nice to find this in NYC. I found out alot at www.NewNewYorker.com hopefully you can get info as well.

Elushi 921 -- I hope you dod not pay full price. The developer is dropping prices to below $500 psf, allowing 5% down, and paying all closing costs at the Lenox. But, regardless, be careful at the Lenox on Lenox Avenue and 129/130th. You might want to buy a Kevlar bullet proof vest. There is an active drug gang turf war on going for control of the lucrative drug trade there. On the night of June 23rd/24th, 2007, there were 4 separate shootings related to this.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=71042

Six People Shot Within Hours During Violent Night in Harlen.
June 24, 2007

Police are trying to sort out the details of four separate shootings that took place in Harlem last night and early this morning.

In all, six people were shot between Lenox and Seventh Avenues and 125th and 127th Streets.

Police say shortly after 10 p.m., a 20-year-old man was shot in the back and another man was shot in the shoulder.

Less than an hour later, a 17-year-old man was shot in the shoulder, and ten minutes after that, a 23-year-old man was shot in the leg.

Then shortly before 1 a.m. today, another 20-year-old man was shot in the back, and a 26-year-old man was shot in the side.

All of the victims are in stable condition at area hospitals.

Police say one person is under arrest in connection with the last two shootings – 18-year-old Emmanuel Cobb of the Bronx. He's charged with assault, reckless endangerment, and resisting arrest. A .38 caliber gun was found at the scene.

So far, police say none of the shootings were related.

Did you see the thread about the triple homicide in Chelsea (right here on streeteasy)
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/555-I_want_to_void_the_contract_due_to_murder_in_apt

I guess Harlem must be perfectly safe even though there were 2 murders the weekend of June 24th and another one the weekend of June 8, 2007:

http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/06082007/news/regionalnews/midget_murder_regionalnews_john_doyle__erika_martinez_and_todd_venezia.htm

June 8, 2007 -- The short, troubled life of a drug-dealing Harlem midget came to a violent end yesterday when he was gunned down while guzzling beer and shooting dice outside a housing project.
Cops found a huge .380-caliber pistol in the waistband of little person Joshua Agard, 18, along with 15 vials of crack that he was peddling while hanging out in a courtyard with pal Manuel Zabater, who was also killed in the attack.

"He was just so big. So [I thought], how much could he get into?" said distraught neighbor Debra Daniels, 61. "He was a good person. I loved him."

Though Agard was just 3 feet tall, he had a police record a mile long. So far this year, he had been busted twice, once on assault charges for throwing a bottle at a man's head and once for trespassing when he was caught inside 425 E. 105th St. He also had two other arrests, cops said.

The final, fatal trouble for Agard came at about 4:30 a.m. yesterday while he and Zabater, beers in hand, were in the courtyard of the East River Houses project on East 105th Street.

According to cops, three or four black males approached and, without saying a word, blasted Agard several times.

Witnesses told The Post that the project grounds were clear of the usual cast of thugs at the time of the shooting, indicating that many knew the hit would be going down.

As rounds tore through the tiny target's head and torso, Zabater committed an act of bravery when he rushed to his friend's side and tried to pull him to cover, witnesses said. That's when Zabater - who was on parole for drugs - was hit twice in the torso.

The gunmen fled and were still at large yesterday. Both victims were taken to local hospitals, where they died.

I guess Harlem isn't safe for drug-dealing midgets. Who throw bottles at people's heads.

One of us, one of us, one of us.

I think that the reaction to the recent incidents are valid and understandable....however, lets really examine crime in the city. Check out the NY Times crime stats...the higher the number the more likely you are of falling victim to crime...Obviously you aren't as safe as you would like to think you are...I'd feel safe in Harlem just look at the stats:

Harlem = 84 (Lowest among those listed)

Far West Village = 212
West Village = 175
Soho/Tribeca = 157
Chelsea = 142
Financial District = 139
Downtown = 136
Lower East Side = 130
East Village = 117

How about the Doctor who blew-up his townhouse purposely so that his wife wouldn't benefit financially from it...this happened a yr or two ago on 62nd and 5th...is there a unit avaliable next to the gaping whole that was left by that criminal?...oh no I forgot he's not a "criminal" because he was an affluent doctor who lived in one of the more affluent areas of manhattan...he was just a "disturbed" person! Perceptions are everything in this world....and most of our perceptions are skewed.

The key reason most Manhattan professionals do not feel safe walking the streets of East Harlem, on 125th Street or above or near the perimeter of any of the scores of NYCHA public housing towers in Harlem is because of the groups of loud and often vulgar teenage boys and the grown men in their 20s, 30s, and 40s who are not employed and who do not have the job skills or education to obtain a 21st century knowledge based job in Manhattan, which is the most expensive place to live anywhere in the United States. This is an extremely complex and long cycle problem which will not be remedied through spot gentrification of specific buildings above 96th Street (East Side), 110th Street (Central Park), or 123rd Street (West Side). Nevertheless, the chaos, disorder, and high frequency of anti-social behavior is obvious and palpable walking these streets, and this marks a clear difference from street life on the Upper East Side or Upper West Side. Yet, most value seekers moving to Harlem come from these two quiet, safe neighborhoods. The gentrification of Harlem -- if it occurs -- will be a generational process (about 25 years).

well, you're right, there are still some gang wars going on and it's interesting that the police precinct is fairly close to 125th street.
but to get back on the subject of real estate wars, what are these agents/brokers trying to do with these new developments in Harlem? are any of these worth it?
and why are the prices for SOHA 118 so damn high when everything thing else is less/ sq footage in the area. protest...protest...

The new devel0pments in south Harlem (Kalahari, SOHA 118, Graceline, Loft 124, etc, etc.) are commanding very high asking prices and the selling agents won't negotiate. They say that high percentages of their units are in contract.
Is all this believable?

Re: Loft 124 = True....SOHA 118 = ???

The Rhapsody, 50 West 127 Street, and the Lenox will all cost a pretty penny.....with all the development plans for the area in approx. 3 to 5 years down the road current pricing will be perceived as having been a bargain....and you've goto be in it to win it or else you'll kick yourself later for having let the opportunity pass you by....no regrets...you only get to live once!

What's the risk of buying an income regulated unit (175% of median area income) in one of these new developments. I'm interested in a very nice south Harlem doorman condo building that is fully occupied and a current owner of one of these units is selling due to being relocated. I fit under the income regulation, but should I be concerned (and how concerned) about resale.

People read your offering plan. Any new condo development meassures outside walls. Hence interior is always less than the actual printed sqft

People read your offering plan. Any new condo development meassures outside walls. Hence interior is always less than the actual printed sqft

People read your offering plan. Any new condo development meassures outside walls. Hence interior is always less than the actual printed sqft

OK, the weekend of June 29th through July 1st just started. Who wants to guess how many murders there are in Harlem this weekend? I guess 3 murders this weekend, and then another 2 during the July 3rd and 4th holiday period. I guess at least 2 of the total 5 murders will happen along Lenox and Fifth in the 120s and 130s.

Honestly I don't care how nice the marble finishes are on the kitchens and baths. A new development in the ghetto is still ghetto. I drove around 5th ave near 125th and it is totally shady. If you move into your new condo and never come out for the next 30 years and live like a hermit you are safe. Otherwise, you have to walk around the streets of Harlem and it is just not safe up there for young professionals.

J#19 Just got the update: Soha 118 has sold a whopping = 15 UNITS! (out of 90)
watch those prices drop...especially with the higher interest rates.

"I drove around 5th ave near 125th and it is totally shady. If you move into your new condo and never come out for the next 30 years and live like a hermit you are safe. Otherwise, you have to walk around the streets of Harlem and it is just not safe up there for young professionals."

What a shockingly uninformed opinion. Try getting out of the car next time, idiot.

There are other posts to debate the pros and cons of living in Harlem.

Getting back to OP's question, there should be ways of verifying the square footage - offering plan being one of them. Bank's appraiser should be another. Also do research on the building - the same line of apartments should have the same square footage, even on a different floor. A tape measure is helpful but note that square footage is often calculated from the outer walls and they would include internal closet space.

Well my uniformed opinion of feeling it was unsafe up there was confirmed when that weekend they had multiple murders at the park across the street. If you like taking your life into your hands, go ahead.

The Lenox is nowhere near being fully sold. More like 50-60%. We looked there and were stalked by an agent desperate to make a sale--invitations to dinner, the full-court press. FYI, the developer's son was planning to buy and flip. He's pulled out. That should tell you something.

Harlem is over..it came and went

Oh where, oh where, did my renaissance go? isn't history supposed to repeat itself...

as far as sq footage you can use basically whatever method youw ant as long as you put in the offering plan, the method of mesurament has to be stated int here so if they want to say that the measurement starts from 6" outside of the window to the middle of the inside of the hallway it is okay as long as they put into the offering plan, so the best thing to do is looking at the enginerring drawings andthen find what method they used to measure

HI,

I live in THE LENOX and I can honestly say its GREAT. Its about 60% sold whic is alot better than most new construction, there are also quite a few under contract still. The developer Lew Futterman is shrewd, he is not selling several lines but instead now renting them, so he can wait for the market to go up and get a higher price. The area is rapidly changing. A new delis is opening across the street and the owner is doing a total gut job.

I;ve never been as happy in a New York neighborhood, the neighbors are really caring and friendly and into helping to make the retialization up here really happe. A lot of new stores are opening too.

I think there are alot of people writing on here to "bust" Harlem so it doesn't grow, but they will see and be sorry, and BTW "Everything old is new again" Lenox Avenue will survive and "all that jazz"....

You pay what you get and you get what you pay!

Good point #24 - read the offering plan. It will state how the square footage was measured. Most of the time, the square footage is measured from the outside wall. Sometimes the stated square footage could include common areas as well. This is fully disclosed in the plan. If you can't find that information in the plan, consult your lawyer.

Well we are still here and it is almost September. Itwas a bit rough on a few summer nights, but basically its just kids "hanging out" and no place to go, but they aren't dangerous, just bored and so many families are outside too as its hot, so it feel safe to us. We love THE LENOX, we are getting a high end auto dealer in our retail space, the lowest end is a Rolls Royce so that will help the area too. It is fun being up here and watching the neighborhood change daily. Our building is wonderful and never have we had such great neighbors and actual fun in a building. its only getting better. yes Bed bath and Beyond is coming, as is The World headquarters for the NBA. The restaurants are wonderful too. Look on www.newnewyorker.com constantly there are new shops and restuarant. people are so friendly up here and say "hi" when you walk down the street. Harlem will SHINE.

shill

#38 An auto dealer?...I'm confused. Please elaborate. And I think it's the NBA Players Association that is moving into the area.

It sounds like you might be in the middle of an industrial park, auto dealer, huge mall-like stores, corporations, ummmmm...

I just moved to East Harlem from Williamsburg. I am one block from the 116th and lex stop. People were helpful and smiling. People on the 118th street had a block party with great music. The mornings were quiet. Just as elsushi921 said there were kids in the street but just hangout with friends as were families too. Seemed like in the morning people were going to work or school as I was. Now unlike Williamsburg there are not a lot of "cool restaurants" or hipsters in the area but hey I get a huge apt for a great price. My building has mostly older people but seemed like as I moved in this weekend more about 4 younger professionals were moving in too.

Check that out:
http://www.therealdeal.net/breaking_news/2007/09/06/1189102974.php