Pre-schools questions

Most "normal" people keep their kids home until kindergarden.

Preschool is really just daycare with "teachers". I wouldn't bother, unless you kid has some sort of special need.

I think it is good for children to play and socialize with other children at age 3.Many preschools offer some type of financial aid, depending on your income/assets.Also,you might have problems getting a spot in a public pre-k(just a few classes,siblings get priority)so you might end up for 2 years at a private preschool.You commit to a preschool if your child is accepted,pay a deposit and sign a contract which holds you liable for the full tuition even if you change your mind and don't attend anymore/move.There is a book about preschools(?Victoria Goldman is the author), also you can join Parents League(for a 100 fee) to find out what spots are still available at preschools.Preschool application process is totally messed up on UES, much relaxed UWS(speaking from personal experience with 2 kids).Good luck.

o boy...where to start...manhattan preschools the most competitive in US and even more competitive than ivy league admissions (see resources below)...hundreds (2-400) apply to each school with 10-30 slots available...most people apply to 6-8 schools per child and some pay consultants $5-18k just to help them apply...why? its one of the only on ramps to private ongoing schools here and there are thousands who want a slot for their kid(s) and have more than enough money to pay for it...if you/family dont want to be involved, that's just fine and nothing wrong with it...opt out

1,2) many normal parents apply to private nurseries and ask for financial assistance...my best guess is 10-25% of the class receives fin aid...most schools value socioeconomic diversity and dole out aid to lower income families by charging higher tuition to more wealthy...so you can apply for fin aid or try lower cost coop schools as an alternative or keep kids home, but that of course will put them at a disadvantage to the many who attend nursery...a plethora of scientific evidence shows the benefits to be real and substantial...K teachers generally say the same

3) Switching schools is a MAJOR pain tho it happens....many plan their living arrangements around where they get into school, not the other way around..i know parents who have left preschools for various reasons, but its very upsetting to the schools themselves who plan to have your family for an extended period...getting into another one mid year is VERY challenging tho possible...most parents i know would NEVER plan on doing this because getting one slot anywhere in the first place is so dreadfully difficult...the school might blackball you which can severely hurt your chances at another nursery who may insist on calling for a recommendation or hurt your future application to an ongoing school ...if youre in a coop, no problem

please buy The Manhattan Guide to Private Nursery Schools by V Goldman and check out/join The Parents League website and join for extensive resources re. schools....watch documentary Nursery University...check out consultancies you can hire to help get your kid(s) in: Smartcity Kids and http://www.privateschooladvisors.com/

sorry for the heavy news, but the school process here is incredibly competitive/difficult, whether that's right or wrong...better to know the reality and deal with it accordingly than have someone sugar coat it...i am not defending this reality, just explaining it as best i understand it

newbuyer99: I have a specific suggestion. UWS, low 80s. If that works for you, please e-mail me. Just put my screen name in front of "@gmail.com."

I did it recently. it's only as crazy as you make it. Do you still have my email? just use name here plus aol.com We actually just moved and are now zoned for public preschool. There are only 38 spots. A long shot at best but somebody gets in so I hope I get lucky. There are many preschools that don't cost $20K. Even the Y application was only $150 - never heard of a $400 app fee. Go watch Nursery University if you want a real laugh and horror. Talk soon

completely disagree matt--my kids benefitted hugely from a great preschool, and i was struck by what a disadvantage those who dont/cant go experience---big bennies in terms of socialization, attention span, acculturation to classroom groups, getting away from screens and much else---my kids have never had special needs, they are tthriveing in both private and specialized HS's and on their way to great colleges---and if a parent has any ambition re private schools, it would be pretty hard to get your child in without a good preschool platform--some make the judgement that they arent going to buy in, and that is their choice--but my experience says yours would be lousy advice for a family with wherewithal and interest in private pre-schools--and i hear that there are now a few great public pre-schools which provide similar experience

another parent who just went through the private pre-school path. we're doing it for optionality. in a few years, i think i want my son to go public K, but want to retain the flexibility to do private K. And, theoretically, the private pre-schools help your kid with the ERB's for the G&T programs (although admittedly, i'm sceptical it really matters). and second the reco to watch Nursery University... those people were wack jobs.

if you're looking for cheaper alternatives, there are some private pre-schools that are not "top-tier" (whatever that means). we looked at first friends. seemed ok, facilities were nothing special, but it was a lot cheaper than the other schools.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

>> another parent who just went through the private pre-school path. we're doing it for optionality. in a few years, i think i want my son to go public K, but want to retain the flexibility to do private K. And, theoretically, the private pre-schools help your kid with the ERB's for the G&T programs (although admittedly, i'm sceptical it really matters).

What he said.

Oh and I would go with proximity to your home, which in your case could be problematic since you're moving. But just imagine yourself dragging an extra 15 blocks in this weather.

i can give you a scenario that i went through. my kid went to a tiny day care, not pre-school, full time that was inexpensive and very simple. people in my building sent their kids to Motessori school that was only 3 hrs per day, had all the school holidays and breaks, and it cost more then mine. i really thought that their kid, based on how he played/acted, was well mannered and smarter then my kid. unfortunately for them, my kid knew the alphabet and counting before theirs and was writing earlier as well.

long story short, it's the care that your child gets not how much money you spend is what really counts.

depends on the parents. If you rely on school solely to teach your kid (alphabet/numbers), then what do you expect?

"Unfortunately for them"?
Knowing your letters and numbers early is indicative of nothing beyond ... knowing your letters and numbers early. It's not predictive of later success in school or in life, any more than walking early predicts athleticism.
At worst, it can be indicative of a mistaken focus on academic standards at an age when what's important is self-knowledge, self-control and self-love should be the goal, aka very happy and plays well with others.
To go back to the great pre-school vs. home vs. daycare conundrum, I don't think there is an absolute best. It depends on the quality of the setting and the personality of the child. If both parents work FT and can afford it, a part-time preschool and a nanny gives a very flexible child care schedule for the parents. If one parent stays at home, classes and a day or 2 a week in preschool can work fine. If that parent has the patience of a saint, the enthusiasm of a cheerleader and a gaggle of kidlets, home is a great option.
Having gone the coop preschool + pt nanny route, it worked well for a gregarious only child when we both worked. I am taking a year off work before Kindergarten, and I find that 2 hours of preK in the morning is the perfect errand break, and I am enjoying the extra time with my child.
I don't know the OP's situation, but be aware that preschools have extended breaks and follow a strict sick child policy. They are not equivalent to a daycare in that regard.

If your kid is lucky. He/she will live to 100, what's a 3-4 years of their earliest lives spent with a least one parent.

In my perfect world a parent should be 'there' ESP. During the first few years, but sadly the bubble often necessitates dual income in NYC.

>>In my perfect world a parent should be 'there' ESP. During the first few years, but sadly the bubble often necessitates dual income in NYC.

Can't disagree with that, i mean probably most of us did not go to preschool at age 3 either. But you definitely feel the pressure of being an "inferior parent" in Manhattan if you don't join the rat race and send your kid to preschool.

The first thing most parents ask is, "Oh where does he/she go to school?"

"completely disagree matt--my kids benefitted hugely from a great preschool, and i was struck by what a disadvantage those who dont/cant go experience---big bennies in terms of socialization, attention span, acculturation to classroom groups, getting away from screens and much else---my kids have never had special needs, they are tthriveing in both private and specialized HS's and on their way to great colleges"

I didn't need preschool. My siblings didn't need preschool. We all got into good colleges and graduate schools and launched successful careers.

My nieces and nephews didn't need preschool. They all started in kindergarten and are all at the top of their respective classes in school. One -- a graduate of a public high school -- is currently enrolled at Harvard.

I understand why working parents would want to shove their kids into formal education at the earliest age possible. But let's stop kidding ourselves and call it what it really is: glorified DAYCARE.

matt, that your genes are so superior does not qualify you to judge the potential that preschool might be of value to our more normal, average children

and, given that you seem not to have children of your own, what has posessed you to gain an understanding of what goes on at preschool, such that you know what "it really is"?

Hanging around a lot of pre-schools?

" I find that 2 hours of preK in the morning is the perfect errand break"

What are all these "errands" that today's stay-at-home moms are running these days that they need a two-hour "break" every single day?

Bank? No ... everyone has gone "paperless" and pays everything over the Internet (or so they allege).

Post office? No ... everyone uses email (or so they allege).

Grocery shopping? You know they have Fresh Direct for that, right?

"and, given that you seem not to have children of your own, what has posessed you to gain an understanding of what goes on at preschool, such that you know what "it really is"? Hanging around a lot of pre-schools?"

I've been covering education issues for 15 years in the media.

And I'm dating a teacher.

Wow, Matt - my wife is home with 2 young kids. The lack of errand time on her is crushing. There are so many little things needed to be done to keep a home going, you have no idea. Plus, everyone needs some time to themselves, do visit the doctor, get their hair cut, prep for dinner, etc. You have a very narrow span of vision.

"There are so many little things needed to be done to keep a home going, you have no idea."

Actually, I DO have an "idea", since I've been running my own home now for 20 years.

Go to the doctor? Take the kids. Worked for my mother, and generations of other mothers.

Prep for dinner? Are you kidding? Why does Mom need to be alone in the apartment to do this?

Matt,
Perhaps your lack of pre-school had something to do with your lack of social skills and self awareness.

Just because I'm not drinking the Politically Correct Kool-Aid doesn't mean I have a "lack of social skills and self-awareness".

You'd do well to at least learn the psychobabble terms before trying to use them out of context.

Matt, you're really digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole here. If it's attention or diversion you are seeking, well, I guess you've got it. But outside of that, what on earth would make a sentient city-dwelling adult attack mothers and parents on ideological grounds that are as abstruse as they are absurd?

But you still havn't learned how to play well with others. Your world view is shockingly narrow minded. You think all co-op boards should behave as your does, all mothers should do as yours did. You make no allowances for different situations, are against stay at home Dads and working mothers, and seem to resent woman. You're like a character out of the 1950s.

"Your world view is shockingly narrow minded. You think all co-op boards should behave as your does, all mothers should do as yours did. You make no allowances for different situations, are against stay at home Dads and working mothers, and seem to resent woman. You're like a character out of the 1950s."

You call it "narrow-minded" -- I call it "clarity".

Your own intolerance to my point of view is troubling, actually. Now who's being "narrow-minded"?

I never said I was against stay-at-home Dads. I never said I was against working mothers, either -- if the situation truly justifies it.

And as far as "resenting" women -- that's just silly. You're looking for sexism where it doesn't exist. Simmer down, sister, and have another cookie.

Ha, Matt, you're on a roll. You're dating a teacher, so you're an expert on preschool? Thanks for the laughs. Let us know next time you find a dime, I need some investment advice.

Apparently you missed the fact that I've been covering the education "beat" for 15 years. In many cases, I know more about the industry than the people who work in it.

>>> Apparently you missed the fact that I've been covering the education "beat" for 15 years. In many cases, I know more about the industry than the people who work in it.

Like war journalists know more about war then people in the army? And people who write for the WSJ know more about finance than people who work for banks. Okay.

Hahaha - Matt's notion of the NYC SAHM as an overprivileged drone isn't entirely wrong. But, we aren't all like that. OTNYC is spot on - very little down time for a true SAHM (i.e. one that does not pass on 50% of the workload to hired help).

newbuyer - West 81st can offer nice suggestions. I recommend that you email him.

I have a question about preschools. Our financial status could significantly change in 3 years in which case we may seriously consider private catholic schools. In the meantime, we are NOT playing the private preschool game with our almost 2 y.o. She will attend a parochial preschool at age 3. Do we have zero chance of getting her into a good private if she doesn't go to top-tier pre-k? Even if the answer is "no shot in hell" we aren't changing her pre-k path for the next 3 years. just curious what folks think.

You really mustn't be a hater, kspeak.

You're the one who is attacking other's choices. I'm just saying somebody who "covers" something doesn't know more than those who actually do it.

In most parts of the world, being tanned is a sign of "poverty." The fact you have to work in the fields etc.... In a perverse way a "tan" is a sign of wealth in most large cities in US, as most ppl are cubicle drones w/o access to sun or FUN, and in a double perverse way a SAHM/D, is again a sign of "wealth" IMHO. That ONE paychk can take care of it all.

I have no answers, just a modern man trying to fit in and not land in jail. Wife happy, kids happy= > i'm happy.

uwsmom, I've known plenty of ppl that had the best of everything in nyc=> ended up homeless backpacking thru europe. I've know immigrants who could not speak english but got into Bx. Sc. on their math skillz and went onto an Ivy.

Parenting is key. I mean if the parents are over-leveraging, fake boob buying, superficial shitz whose first words out of their mouths are "where's your kid go to pre-K, and what do you do and how much do you make" and have every single "accomplishments" hung up on the foyer as you enter their house..... well might as well buy that kid a nice backpack that'll travel well in europe now.

:)
happy is good.

my kidz have accomplished bigly and i try not to adevrtise--not sure tho that this makes for a happier human than the backpacker---or the kid who goes to UNH, ends up teaching school and marrying a carpenter--there are lots of ways to skin the happiness cat--

happy is all

contented, productive contributors to society is the goal, right?

"in a double perverse way a SAHM/D, is again a sign of "wealth" IMHO. That ONE paychk can take care of it all."

to me is a sign of good $ management mostly.

"contented, productive contributors to society is the goal, right?"

it's tricky. it all depends on how "productive" is defined (and who gets to define it) so that's not controlling. like the idea of "good work ethic": moralizing workaholism.

I don't typically agree with Matt on anything - and preschool is no exception. BUT, I am eager to hear a journalist who covers schools opinion on the charter situation. Honestly - what do you think? From my POV, the evidence for them is pretty overwhelming and the evidence against seems to be overly powerful teachers unions protecting their own.

defined as "to produce", in contrast to "to consume". perhaps productive contributor was redundant. productive as in NOT backpacking thru europe as a goal. or dying in alaska like that fool they made the movie out of that everyone so admired. wtf?

> defined as "to produce", in contrast to "to consume".

uwsmom, the biggest problem of capitalism is overproduction. hence, people that consume more than what they produce (laywers, priests, retirees according to galbraith) are needed within this system. those that overproduce tend to pay the most taxes explicitly, hence, i understand... that society wants to push every single person to produce, produce, produce... but sby has to consume too.

> "dying in alaska like that fool they made the movie out of that everyone so admired"

have no idea who you are talking about here. sure, nobody is proud of having a fool kid. ask bush senior how he feels about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild

hmmm, my point was much simpler....

uwsmom - many kids go to private -if you do choose that path - and come from no name preschools. It may be in your favor as well because those so called tt preschools will push their connections over just regular kids so you can fall by the wayside. Even kids from public preschool can get into private school. Depends on the child of course. Don't worry too much.

I honestly don't know if I should be happy or sad that I don't have such problems as trying to get my kids into a selective and expensive preschool so that they can get into a good private school.

"I don't typically agree with Matt on anything - and preschool is no exception. BUT, I am eager to hear a journalist who covers schools opinion on the charter situation. Honestly - what do you think? From my POV, the evidence for them is pretty overwhelming and the evidence against seems to be overly powerful teachers unions protecting their own."

Scoots, it really depends on the school. There are good charter schools, and not so good charter schools. I agree that much of the resistance is coming from the teachers' union -- but frankly, if it weren't for the teachers' unions we wouldn't be able to attract even the marginally talented pool of teachers we currently have in in the NYC public schools.

***

"I honestly don't know if I should be happy or sad that I don't have such problems as trying to get my kids into a selective and expensive preschool so that they can get into a good private school."

And yet, kids don't even really need private schools anyway.

Schools are what the kids make of them. A "top tier" private school isn't going to turn an average kid into an Einstein, and a mediocre public school will not snuff the innovation of those kids who truly are little Einsteins.

Unfortunately, private schools -- not unlike the children themselves -- are all too often treated by their parents as flashy accessories to complement the Park Avenue address, the German sports sedan, the house in the Hamptons, and the Hermes handbag. They're also used as a way to to cloak the parents' own elitism -- and dare we say RACISM -- around a blanket of concern over the "quality" of their children's education.

Ignoring the (unavaoidable) tangents and flame wars, thanks to everyone for their comments. Some replies/questions/follow-ups:

- We have no intention of sending our kids to private schools, so the factor of helping with those admissions is irrelevant to us. That's one of the reasons I am so resistant to the high prices - it seems that a large part of my $$ pays for a service I don't need or want.

- sirwinston, your reply is a perfect summary of my frustration with this scene. As for hiring consultants to help my kids get into pre-schools, I think I would rather shoot myself.

- ab_11218, how did you find the tiny daycare that you sent your kid to? Since my main objective is socialization, I would consider such an alternative.

- Any more recommendations of online resources I can use to get smarter about options, research, etc.?

- For everyone that offered to discuss off-line: Thank you, I will email you shortly.

- For everyone that offered specific suggestions: Likewise thank you, I will check them out.

Thanks again.

"As for hiring consultants to help my kids get into pre-schools, I think I would rather shoot myself."

You're not interested in paying some yutz $15,000 to teach your kid how to hold a crayon and play with Play-Doh?

Matt I very much agree with you on your private school assessment but oddly I will still apply to a few select schools and for FA. Public, however, is fine with, me.

NYCMatt: "but frankly, if it weren't for the teachers' unions we wouldn't be able to attract even the marginally talented pool of teachers we currently have in in the NYC public schools."

I'm very curious about this, I'd like to hear more about how that happens. My only (very indirect) experience is with the college-level teachers' union(s) in the city, and the impression I got was exactly the opposite (e.g., salaries being kept at low, non-competitive limits, by "unions' rules"). But as I said, my information was indirect.

Matt has taken a lot of slack but raises some very good points. No matter who you ARE or how deep your roots go in this city, private school admissions are a very stressful process. This inevitably trickles down to our children. On a very real level the process insults our intelligence - but we continue down the path because we want the best for our children (and because our wives would decapitate us if we didn't!). At the end of the day, everything works out but it leaves a very bad taste in your mouth. This city is ripe for substantial progressive change in the area of private school admissions - I think the economic downturn will help but parents, sick of the terroristic tactics of these schools, will be the most powerful catalyst. I write this with all due respect for the manahttan private schools - I attended them and they are among the best in thh country.

Matt - you have officially established yourself as a yutz.

As for pre-school, a) no, you don't need it to get to a TT private (our neighbor's son just got into Collegiate K, no preschool AT ALL), and b) we would like our children to go but have no intention of sending our children to private continuing in the city or elsewhere. Our catchment is great, and if the overcrowding becomes too severe, we will bump up to the burbs. The reason we are choosing this is simple: the ability of children to learn new information peaks somewhere around 6-8 years of age. The amount of learning a child does before they are 4 is phenomenal. It is important to me that my child is around professionals that understand how children learn and process information.

If you disagree, that is fine - no kid will be worse off for not going. But don't generalize and bucket those who choose differently. It makes you sound like a disaffected, disturbed sociopath.

newbuyer, i was fortunate to live only 3 blocks away from the day care. we sent our first son to another one, acredited, and he was sick for 4 weeks out of 6, with 2 stomach viruses and a bad cold. that place was filthy and they kept sick children with the rest and not isolated.

you can look at the smaller day cares that are "family run" or something like that. they are allowed to have max of 12-20 children. it's a hit or miss, but for us it was it was a huge hit. we moved to a different location to have the older one go to a great school and now we're dealing with a bad day care for the little one. keep looking back at the old one and saying "If only the school we were zoned for was good, it would be so much better."

NYCMatt re preschool: "I wouldn't bother, unless you kid has some sort of special need."

get it?

ab_11218 - same question - how do I find these "family-run" day cares? Thanks.

"the impression I got was exactly the opposite (e.g., salaries being kept at low, non-competitive limits, by "unions' rules")."

This is now how unions work at all. There isn't a single labor union in the nation that "keeps salaries low".

Union contracts specify MINIMUM rates of pay, not maximums. Employers, despite what they allege, are free to pay any union member as much "overscale" as they wish.

I've heard this argument all the time: Employee asks for a raise, manager throws up his hands and says "but the union contract says I can only pay you X."

Bullshit. I don't care what union you're in, the union contract says the employer must pay *AT LEAST* X, not "at most" X.

you can look here https://a816-healthpsi.nyc.gov/ChildCare/ChildCareList.do. it lets you know what's the max capacity and you can find some unknown gems.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

ok, i opened a netflix account just so i could watch Nursery University. talk about lemmings ;). But seriously, the most bothersome aspect of the film to me is the effect of the manhattan baby boom on education in the city. Whether our kiddos do public, private, parochial, whatever, this concerns me.

What specific negative effect of the baby boom do you mean? Ie what specifically is troubling you uwsmom?

Capacity.

Don't remember the woman's name (Director of Mandell) mentioned that approx half of their spots went to siblings and she couldn't promise that in a few years (movie was made in 2007 i think) they would have spots for siblings #3 or #4. I think the movie noted that the number of children in NYC has increased by 30% since 2000. Not sure about private schools, but in the UWS, public schools seem to be overcrowding.

Though, a few days ago i printed some literature about the G&T programs (I'm just starting to educate myself about manhattan's schooling options) and wondered how many kids tested 90% or higher, if that number increases each year, and if G&T programs are, or will become, overcrowded.

How did I miss this thread? Probably a good sign that I'm weaning myself off this site.

Anyway. I'll rattle off the FCFS (First Come First Serve) preschools on the UWS. Most of them
are cheaper than the UES norm of 20k for 5 mornings.

First Friends, Columbus Preschool & Gym, Rocking Horse.

Not FCFS but haven't opened yet and will have spots - Bilingual Buds.

Daycares which may have PT spots - Preschool of America, Tendercare (at the 63rd Y).

I think that it could be hard to get into the other preschools on the UWS at this point for the fall
- you can always call around, of course.

G&T spots on UWS: for the eldest child (no sibling), you need a very high score on the OLSAT to get into PS9 G&T, Anderson. G&T programs aren't overcrowded because a lot of people simply won't send their
kids to the less desired programs. Many kids who score over 90 go to Gened.

This fall will be the first year that things come to a crisis point on the UWS (lottery to get into
your zoned school). The DOE is hoping against hope that the neighborhood parents are wrong
and that come September, enough people will go private or move, and that there won't be overflow.
PS199 & 87 PTAs are working very hard to keep their schools uncrowded and force DOE to open a new school.

Parochials are a good option for this coming fall. I know many who are pleased with Blessed Sacrament, and
I believe they go up to 8th Grade.

There are always kids who go from public to private at any point or no preschool to private but you need
very high ERBs and some kind of "hook" if you want a "top tier" private.

One pitfall of public is the lack of a cohesive curriculum. Now, whether or not that matters in an individual's eventual achievement, I don't know. I certainly benefited from going to a K-12 private school
with a cohesive curriculum, low teacher turnover, but has it contributed to the bottom line, I can't say.

Newbuyer: no issue with moving mid-year, but unless you go for a daycare option, I doubt you will get any $ back.

I know of a couple of kids who did no preschool and went right to public K. Preschool is not a necessity, of course, but the socialization is nice. As for expectations, I have found that the better public Ks in NYC expect your child to be reading by the end of K, so it would be up to you in that case to make sure they can either read or almost read by the time they enter K.

Speaking as an "overprivileged" housewife, preschool was invaluable to my child and to our family as we have gotten to know so many families in our neighborhood. Really feel much more like part of our community now.

ha - kind of had a more extreme version of "overprivileged drone" in my head but i suppose we all qualify to a certain extent.

interesting to hear that parents will send kids to general ed over g&t. I wondered how the quality varied from school to school. such a choice would indicate that some general ed is better quality than a less desired g&t? weird. or perhaps that the population at a less desirable g&t school is worth avoiding?

PS191 had a G&T which closed for lack of enrollment, so presumably there was an issue with having to share the facilities with the general population as I've never heard complaints about the quality of the G&T at 191. On the UWS, there are only G&Ts at PS166 & 9. 9 is highly desired, 166 a little less so. I think that few people would turn down either to go gen ed, but when the DOE tries to start a new G&T in say, PS191, they don't get many parents. I'm not including citywides. Few people turn those down to go to gened, though of course there are always a few.

Don't forget the Special Music School in the Lucy Moses building.

gotcha uwsmom...totally agree..most of the problems are driven by a highly unfavorable supply-demand imbalance...nowhere else is it like this but NYC...one of my friends was relating how private schools in his area woo the parents, since it costs considerably more than most can spend...his family was invited to events and "sold" on the privates in the area...imagine that in NYC! ...all the power is with the schools here, since so many applicants...ive often wondered why many more schools dont spring up to meet the demand, but i suppose its similar issue with housing: no space available (+rent control limits severely renovation and turnover) + sure its not easy given state requ etc....the perils of living in the highest pop density city in america, which of course has its benefits as well

Winston: it's not that simple. People are not applying in droves to every single private school, and in times of economic duress, there is a flight to "quality". If you look through the NYT archives, in every recession, a previously established, though not necessarily "top" school goes bust. Examples include the one on CPW and 88th (?) which is how 287CPW got built, Mcburney school for boys (15W63 got built), and Andrew Goodman's alma mater (forget the name). So it's not so simple as opening up new schools to meet the demand. The handful of new for-profit schools have yet to break even. People are just not comfortable spending 30k+ on a new, unproven school.

Correction, 279CPW, and it was Andrew Goodman's alma mater, Walden School.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/23/nyregion/walden-school-at-73-files-for-bankruptcy.html?scp=1&sq=walden%20school&st=cse

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/04/nyregion/private-school-after-closing-sells-all-it-has.html?scp=1&sq=mcburney%20school&st=cse

Not only that, but think of the lost opportunities to DOE. Both of those buildings, the first one a prime location, could have been acquired for very little back in the day by the DOE and provided much needed space. We live in a city of short-sighted politicians & civil servants.

U make a great point NYC and thanks for the articles ...great history.. Only thing I would say is walden reopened after this somehow...have friends applying now ... And given what appears to be a sustainable boom in children staying in the city and that applicant numbers are still extraordinary even thru 2008-2010 in arguably a terrible recession, I still wonder why more schools don't spring up...I don't think any schools went under in latest recession (pls let me know if I'm wrong) and things should only stabilize or improve from here...sure would be nice for someone to take the risk and start a new school or five! I wonder if there are other barriers to starting one?

they don't make money and without an endowment it can't work. so....short of a billionaire funding one, its not going to happen.

sirwinston, the bottleneck really is at the preschool level. almost impossible to create an "academic" (i know, laughable, but compared to just day care) preschool in the city these days that will be able to attract the amount of tuition needed to keep it alive.

and the other issue is preschool teachers. they don't make much, given the economies of scale, and there aren't enough people even now willing to toil for that amount of money with a masters in early childhood education (which is required for many of the teachers in the preschools).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/nyregion/24waiting.html?hpw

re: capacity - this is just nuts. there just shouldn't be this much anxiety for families who choose public (and can't afford private).

Don't worry, uwsmom. I think both your kids safely past the peak in terms of baby boom.

with the taxes we all pay this totally and completely sucks. u live in a hood for x yrs, have a family and you can't into the ps assigned to your address? it's catch-22 to the nth degree.

There are many great preschools you can find in and around Manhattan New York. I’d personally recommend you to take a look at the programs at MontClare preschool in New York. I have heard lots of great things about Montclare and I really think you should check it.