Minimum Annual Income to afford a 400-500K Condo

i really do not think there is an appreciable difference in perception of safety from 1999 to present. 1989 to 1999, definitely.

alanhart
>"aptdude, do you find the college population to be reliable tenants? Do they routinely announce every May that their mothers have terrible diseases, and they need to break their leases? And what sort of college/town are we talking about"

Ha that's pretty funny, in thinking about buying multifamily houses for an investment, I always thought of something near a college would be good as you have parent co-signers and guaranteed turnover.
Your version of "dog ate my homework" scenario certainly sounds plausible. Though I imagine many students would like to stay summers in NYC.

Had a friend who bought up a lot of multifamily foreclosure buildings in alphabet city in the early nineties for like 400K a building. Always rented to students. Made enough that he hasn't worked since 2002 and everything is handled by a management company. Haven't talked to him in a couple years though but Im sure the he's insulated even the market fell to 2000 levels.

truthskr10, New York is very different from a college town, and without question students (even NYU students) would have been a much better bet than the previous tenantage for most of ABCville (from a landlord's perspective, at least).

PMG, what you describe is exactly how NYCHA projects and low-income senior housing works. For all other $13.46 wage-earners, even 1% of that $500K is unlikely.

College students as tenants are a particular market; best to get 2-3 months security deposit & have parent guaranty lease. A good on site manager/super is also essential. Biggest problems are partying & property destruction.

The problem with that, dwell, is that most college towns are renter's markets, not owner's markets, and they'll just move on to the next property. Additionally, many states have laws limiting deposits to 1.5x monthly rent. I believe NY does, no? Maybe pre-paid rent is a way around that, but I'm not sure you can claim that it's the final months being prepaid.

"NYCMatt - You said that your financing guidelines come from what is standard for nyc coops. Do you feel that the guidelines, are too strict, too loose, or just right? Obviously they are in place for the coops to protect themselves, but from my point of view, I feel like it makes it very hard if not impossible for a middle-class family (lets say ~120K income) to purchase a 2bedroom anywhere below 125th st."

Generally speaking, I believe co-op guidelines are just right.

There are some co-ops that require only 10% down and don't care about post-closing liquidity. I think that's dangerous. On the other hand, there are co-ops that don't allow financing of any kind. I think that's elitist, but ... it's THEIR candy store, and they can set their own rules.

Most co-ops, however, requiring 20% down and requiring a post-closing liquidity of at least six months' worth of maintenance AND mortgage I believe should be the standard of ANY home purchase.

I can understand your point of view in families not being able to "afford" a family-sized apartment south of 125th Street. But don't blame the co-ops for shutting families out of 2-bedroom apartments in Manhattan. If a "family" can't afford that 2-bedroom apartment south 125th Street, it's not due to the co-op's "restrictive" requirements -- it's because the price is simply too high for that family to afford to buy it.

No one has a birthright to buying real estate in Manhattan. It's always been an expensive proposition. And like it or not, by and large, Manhattan is an island of rich people, and if you want to BUY your home in one of the most expensive locales in the world, supply and demand dictates that if you want to compete with rich people for a scarce resource (housing on a tiny island), the guy with the most dollars will always win. You simply cannot compete with a middle class income.

The same goes for any other expensive locale. If you're a nurse, a fundraiser at a nonprofit, a government civil servant, a teacher, or even just a mid-level manager, you can't afford to buy a home in Beverly Hills. Or Malibu. Or Miami Beach. Nor should you have a "right" to ... just because you "need" the space for your family.

This is why God invented Queens and New Jersey.

AR, like most of the city, my neighborhood (w90s) has seen a lot of new residential development in the past ten years adding market rate owners and tenants. There are now more retail choices for consumers and more 24 hour service that fosters friendlier street life round-the-clock. I have lived here nearly three decades, and there has been dramatic quality of life improvement most of that time. One major setback was in the early 90s, however, the current recession has yet to match that downturn to the degree of urban flight that occurred.

"College students as tenants are a particular market; best to get 2-3 months security deposit & have parent guaranty lease. A good on site manager/super is also essential. Biggest problems are partying & property destruction."

One of the problems with college students (and even graduate students) is they have absolutely no long-term interest in maintaining the property. Even worse than regular tenants, because every year is a new motley crew, the tenants don't even consider it their "home" -- it's just a place to crash. So it's not surprising that most of them don't even do routine housekeeping.

I have a friend who rents an entire house out to law school students, and the repairs that he has to do to the house are shocking. You'd think law students would be more responsible and careful than college students -- but they're not.

He walked me through the house once after one group of students vacated -- it looked like the bathrooms hadn't been cleaned for the entire year they were there. Clearly, the students didn't even own a vacuum ... there were months' worth of crumbs and ground-in potato chips in the living room carpet. The kitchen was an absolute horror; an entire year's worth of cooking and not a single spill wiped up.

Needless to say, he kept the deposit. And of course the students complained, saying they hadn't "broken" anything.

alanhart, that may be true low income housing programs, but my small point was that the cost of ownership eventually has a dramatic decline, often near retirement when many high earners also suffer an income decline. Renters who could otherwise afford to stretch and buy sometimes overlook the long term advantage of owning.

PMG, not having to walk more than two blocks to locate a bank or drugstore is not an improvement to me. the uppers did see more variety in dining options and a couple more parks have been cleaned up but net I'd take 1999 any day.

Needle Park had drug adicts way past the time of the movie. Long Time residents of the upper west side will attest.

Maybe sex addicts -- Miss Looking For Mr. Goodbar, at least, who lived half a block from Sherman Sq. But as a long-term resident of the Upper West Side, I say no Sherman Sq drug addicts way past the time of the movie, unless you include potheads, which you don't.

I was't around in the 80's, but a cop/friend says yes.

Lots of mentally ill, booted from mental institutions to "group homes" by a Devil's pact by thrifty Republicans and do-goody Democrats, until J-51 swept them onto the streets. And depressing old people living in other SROs ... those who often talked about Eleanor Roosevelt might be called heroine addicts.

And a friend of mine, marveling at someone asking a cop for directions, pointed out that a police officer wouldn't even know what borough they're standing in.

AR, The Meatpacking District, 1999 so much grittier and dare I say, exciting? and all of Manhattan 1999 property prices

The Meatpacking District is the only area in Manhattan that had an overnight tranformation, as if it had been a Robert Moses plan. Grit-to-shit in six short months.

Ha, '99, just looked up where I was renting in '99, the printing house 421 hudson street.
2 bed 2 bath and office (loft bedroom was 6ft clearance). $4500/month

PMG, we just disagree. I find the meatpacking district horrifying in it's current form. I didn't spend much time there back in the day either.

home prices used as a measurement of QOL? funny. I would hate living in most of the priciest places in the US. although I likely wouldn't enjoy living in the poorest. besides, prices rose in numerous places, for many reasons other than improved QOL.

today
StreetEasy History
02/12/2010Listed by ORB Management at $5,700.
02/25/2010Price decreased by 4% to $5,500.
03/02/2010Price decreased by 2% to $5,400.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/619165-condo-421-hudson-street-west-village-new-york

Wow, so many awesome and helpful comments from you all, appreciate all your inputs. This has been an amazing learning experience for me :)

I think many of the people here in this thread agree that it's best to not have your monthly outlay for the home (including utilities) greater than 30% of your gross income, and it may also not be a bad idea to have enough liquidity to cover 6 months of mtg+maintenance (Thanks NYCMatt).

Many of the condos I have looked at so far have the common charges/utilities + taxes (421A) less than $500 and assuming that I do manage to get a 5.25% rate on a 350K loan for a 450K purchase my monthly outlay for the house is around $2450.

So to break it down again:

Monthly Mortgage = $2000
Common Charges + Taxes = $500
Cable + Electricity + Internet Bill (Current Bill) = $200
Cell Phone = $50
Homeowner's Insurance = $100

I do not have any student loans, car loans or any CC debt so no other significant monthly payments. Please let me know if I missed anything here? I am not including my lifestyle costs like food, clothing, entertainment as these expenditures can be controlled and tightened and I do that currently anyways. I can live happily with spending $1000-$1500 on these items and still have some savings left.

Like glamma, I also think renting or subletting my apt out in a W'burg or South Harlem is an option and can move to LI with parents for free, if a situation so arises (worst case scenario). Maybe I won't be able to rent out my 1BR at the same exact rate as 2500, but I'll have enough savings to cover for the mismatch for an extended period of time. So the apt, I feel, is not that big of a risk.

This is not saying that I'll be buying anytime soon, I will wait untill I feel confident in the South Harlem or W'burg markets (probably another year) and continue saving.

Thanks all, once again :)

pretzel_nyc, please find and read threads on this discussion regarding 421-A ... they're very bad if you don't fully understand how to consider them in your budgeting.

"I find the meatpacking district horrifying in it's current form. I didn't spend much time there back in the day either."

I do, too.

I did.

this discussion *board*, that is ... use "SEARCH DISCUSSIONS" over there on the right.

manhattan always has and always will be a playground for the rich, but that wasn't ALL it was. there was also a tremendous amount of social, ethnic and class diversity here that made NY rich in a whole different way. no, it should not be a birthright to own in manhattan, actually it's the dream of all dreams. but, it is a shame when what was disguised by giuliani as a "quality of life" campaign does much to eliminate said diversity, the repercussions of which are still reverberating today, tomorrow, and for years to come. i think we're at a tipping point right now, between greed and reason. will we keep commoditizing the city until we have to go to Queens or New Jersey just to find a hardware store? will there soon be nothing but banks in the commercial spaces - plenty of places to get money, but no where decent to spend it?

"I did." Now it's much harder for you to make a quick buck, isn't it?

Pretzel:

What Alan said. You need to figure the full taxes AFTER THE ABATEMENT ENDS in your budget (particularly since it will be difficult to unload that apartment when the clock starts running out).

Also, "common charges" in a building can double or even triple overnight if something breaks or goes wrong in the building.

And cable PLUS electricity PLUS Internet equals $200? Are we still talking about New York?? Even the most budget-minded "cable + internet" package is hovering around $125/month, and the average electric bill for a one-bedroom in this city is another $150/month.

Cell phone $50? Seriously?

'Also, "common charges" in a building can double or even triple overnight if something breaks or goes wrong in the building.' ... or if the "forecast" pro-forma budget that the sponsor came up was bogus in the first place, for, um, marketing reasons.

Glamma, I agree with you.

But thanks to a dramatic reduction in crime since the 1970s, as well as an influx of money, Manhattan has evolved into something different.

And until something happens to scare that money away, it will be difficult for the "social, ethnic, and class diversity" to compete economically with those social, ethnic, and classes who have the most money.

Again, the guy with the most dollars wins. That's how it works in America. And if you take off the sepia-toned glasses through which you view the "Good Ol' Days", you'll see that's how it's always been.

Aside from housing, I think food is amongst the biggest expense. $10 bucks a day for lunch, and groceries are far from cheap in the city. I figure one needs to spend about $20/day on food, not counting pricier meals on the weekends. That's another $600/month. I tend to eat a lot though.

I hear you, AG.

I spent $75 on Saturday. Then I spent another $95 yesterday. And this is just basic stuff: cheese. fruit. bread. peanut butter. dishwashing soap. toilet paper.

I remember when each "item" in the grocery cart cost roughly a buck. Today, each "item" costs roughly FIVE bucks.

Yeah NYCMatt, seriously.

I have TWC with High Speed Internet (they called this double package about 2 years ago) I signed up for it for $92/ month, with tax this is around $96. And this is not a budget package. I have more channels than I can lay my hands on any given day, additionally I do not subscribe to HBO or DVR. I have a HTPC wired up to my LCD TV and have HBO and Show shows downloaded via torrents via the high speed road runner package. Maybe you got scammed by your cable provider.

Also, yes phone is seriously only $50 (basic plan), I don't have an iPhone like the rest of the world. I do have a blackberry provided by work.

My last months bill was $40 (currently my gas and heat is covered in my rent) and before that $38 and before that $42. It's called green living :) And I do live in a 1 BR in UWS, probably smaller by your standards but it is around $550 sq feet.

I wasn't aware of the CC rising dramatically like that. Do you see that a lot? Or is that a worst case scenario, I should take into account for. As a percentage increase, how much do you think it increases over a 10 year period?

"As a percentage increase, how much do you think it increases over a 10 year period?"

3-5% per year.

NYCMatt, do you eat at steak houses every day? Or you only visit expensive restaurants?

Over the weekend, my gf and I went to Fatty Crab (not cheap but not expensive either) for dinner. It came out to about $70 (including tips) between the two of us after we spent about 2 hours there eating and drinking (beer not wine) and typically I tend to do that twice a week. Previous week we went to Calle Ocho and the bill came out to $80 between two of us.

I do love to cook and so does my gf. I don't know what you cook, but my typical weekday dinners don't cost that much and most of the time I have left over for lunch. I shop from Fairway, probably not the cheapest place but not the most expensive either. My grocery expenditures for last 3 months are (Feb 295, Jan 355, Dec 345), so maybe it's just me but I don't usually spend $95 on cheese, fruit and toilet papers every time I do grocery.

pretzel, take a good long look at your prispective building's financial picture. my building paid off the underlying mortgage 20 yrs ago, the $300 maintenance hasn't changed in 15 years, we have a new boiler, no facade/roof/basement problems, plenty of commercial rent income from three adjacent stores, and 300k in the bank. also there are 30 shareholders so if one or two goes under, it would not kill the others. these are the kind of things you want.

Thanks glamma. Those are some useful things to look at and I'll definitely keep an eye out. Is this kind of information public, or is the co-op/condo board required to furnish it if you are a prospective buyer?

Also for a new condo construction, it will not be immediately clear what the building's financial future would be, right? Or is there a way to gauge that?

Well back to the original post. Having read some of the regular posters on streeteasy for the last few months, please do not jump all over me (it may be a dumb question). People keep talking around 30% of income on housing.

But a) how does the mortgage interest tax deduction weigh into this equation and b) if you pay quarterly taxes and you can take advantage of the tax deduction right off the top, does that affect the "30%".

When making big financial decisions I tend to lean toward being more conservative. For example, we are shopping and I am only using my base salary even though my quarterly distributions bring in an extra 80K a year. While everything is market driven, my distributions have remained consistent for the last three years (good times and bad). So when I have been pre-qualified/pre-approved/commitment letter, I use my base pay to make my budget which takes the 30% and sometimes brings it into the high 30s (thats with also putting the max in the 401K).

If I were to buy something in the 800K range (20 percent down), I would save about 18K a year in taxes. If I continue to rent, I pay the rent and the 18K which is like tacking on over 1K a month to the rent no matter where I chose to rent.

I hope the question/topic is clear.

inonada - underwriting guidelines for jumbos (above 729,750 loan amount) are a bit more strict but can be approved with less than 45% total "debt to income" ratio as well. Usually with jumbos, 2 underwriters review it but if the file is clean then it shouldnt matter if 5 underwriters look at the loan. And there are some down payment restrictions and reserve requirements. 80% financing up to 1M, 75% up to 1.5M, 65% up to 3M, and 60% up to 5M. 12-24 months is post closing reserves for any loan above 1M. Hope that helps. sunny.hong@bankofamerica.com

Matt & Alan:
I got a tenant now; thought she'd be good: she's an investigator for a federal gov agency & has a high security clearance. She's been horrible: She did construction & moved a wall!!!! I mean, wtf??!!! Moved a wall!!!! On the other hand, I've had grad students who were wonderful. Ya just never know.

I always like hearing from you, Sunny. You know your stuff!!

i think that this is fine. many condos especially in Williamsburg have small common charges and abated taxes. i spend $360 / month for a giant apt for common charges and taxes, and last year got $400 back from bloomberg tax rebate. also, my tax deductions got me back between $1500 and $2000 back PER MONTH (average over a few years), so it's significant.
my real negative would be that as a 30 something you should assume that in the next 7-10 years that you'll have a baby, so really, look for 2 bedroom, so you won't have to move.
also, i periodically look to see what type of money i'd have to pay to get a really similar apt and the monthly rent is way more.
i can't wrap my head around the pro-rent people. just seems bad on a day to day basis not to have the perfect place that you've created for yourself, plus you have no advantage in terms of the long run. can't really see NY rents trending down over the 10 year outlook, but my mortgage will always remain the same.

Matt,
I was surprised to learn that many people own neither a vacuum nor a step ladder. Unreal & disgusting. Even better: Ts who call the super to change a light bulb inside their apt.

I used to live a few blocks from the meatpacking dstrct & I DEFINITELY like it better now. There used to be sizable pieces of meat & fat lying on those quaint cobble stones & the rats would feast at night; ya mite say the restaurants of today replaced the rodent restaurants of yesteryear. I never went there at nite because I didn't want to encounter a large, gorging rat. So good, bad or ugly, at least, these days, I'm not afraid to walk there at night.

Pretzel_NYC, to answer your questions about the common charges...I was Treasurer for my building up until recently (I finally found someone to replace me- but I am still viewed as the de facto Treasurer in most of the owners eyes). My building is now 4 years old and the owners took control from the Sponsor (the developer) after just one year. I think the first 2 or more years is typical for the sponsor to remain in control. When I went to buy I reviewed the sponsors financial projections (found in the prospectus) for the buildings costs, which is funded by the common charges. While most of the assumptions the sponsor made in the projections seemed reasonable- it didn't account for the massive increase in electrical/natural gas heating prices and also did not include a reserve fund. I took control of the Treasurers position once we had the ability to set the budget ourselves- and I explained to owners that I wanted to increase our common charges to account for the increase in Con Ed costs and to add a reserve. This increase was for 30%- and much to my shock/surprise, every owner agreed this was the right thing to do.

I think most new buildings have common charge increases of 15-25% in the first few years. Most sponsors set the common charges as low as they can in order to sell apartments as fast as they can. I think NYCMatt is probably accurate for most buildings once they are mature with regard to percentage increases in the common charges. In my building, owners have made it clear they would prefer higher percentage increases occurring less frequently rather than small increases every year.

Indeed, the president of our board feels it's "fiscally responsible" to increase the monthly maintenance by at least 3% every year, whether we need to or not.

I vehemently disagree.

Thanks, Sunny. I was curious about exactly how much strict the underwriting becomes when it's the bank's own money on the line rather than Freddie / Fannie.

Why do you suppose the down payment requirements go up with increasing price? Because income levels associated with supporting a multi-million dollar loan are a lot more likely to see a significant drop? Or is it something else?

Too bad I don't have a fairway downtown, i'm spending a small fortune on food, without eating out too often, except for lunch. Whole foods, trader joes, fresh direct and the farmer markets cost me a fortune to feed a family of four (2 little kids). Every time I go to buy food/diapers/groceries I'm spending $100-$200 This is at least once a week. But I'm not buying all organic food, but at the same time it isn't junk either.

I've become almost suburban lately in my food/grocery shopping as the littlest one is so young. This is my modus operandi - rent a zipcar after 9pm during the week or 8am on Sat/Sun once every 2 weeks. Zip up Westside Highway to uptown Fway - takes 10 mins. Do a big shop, focusing on bulky items (diapers, wipes, bagels, milk). Also they have larger-sized containers (cheaper and better for the environment) of various things.

During the week, I do minimal shopping to top up - Zabar's for deli, Citarella for meats/fish/chick (I refuse to ever buy Fway again), farmer markets for apples and produce (more during the spring/summer).

I've also cut down on meat, fish, poultry for health reasons. I tended to buy $$$ cuts, so even buying pricier organic produce is still cheaper.

That all makes sense, except for the cutting down on fish for health reasons. I've increased my intake of fish, and its pricey.

too much Hermes in fish, especially for babes

>> In my building, owners have made it clear they would prefer higher percentage increases occurring less frequently rather than small increases every year.

That is because if a major expense is coming, they can get out sell the problems to a new owner. (Let's just say been there, suffered that.) I like the nycmatt 3% approach honestly... shows a less corrupt, more responsible long term thinking board (imho).

>> I think most new buildings have common charge increases of 15-25% in the first few years. Most sponsors set the common charges as low as they can in order to sell apartments as fast as they can. I think NYCMatt is probably accurate for most buildings once they are mature with regard to percentage increases in the common charges.

You have to find the right places. Been here, reaped 0% cc increases. I think sometimes if a new dev is highly advertised, that it's destined for unhappy owners. Instead of putting the money towards the actual building, they allocated large funds to marketing instead.

I was enrolled in a male-dominated faculty as an undergrad. I can verily confirm that most of the guys lived in total and utter sties. The ones who didn't came out of the closet after we graduate or lived in houses their parents owned. At the time, it wasn't a bad preposition in my college town to buy a house and have your kid/s live in it.

proposition

While aifamm's comments may often have validity- it wasn't the case at all in my building. When I was creating the budget for the building the owners expressed that they didn't want annual increases- whether because it was an investment unit or for their own budgeting purposes. As a result I built in expected cost of living increases into the new budget for the next few years. The net effect is that the owners are paying a bit more than they need to today in order to offset regular but small increases later on.

The other benefit to setting the budget this way was that we were a new building with limited funds upon startup- this method gave us a bit more cash upfront.

On aifamm's other point- I generally agree that if a new dev is highly advertised those advertising $ are likely better spent toward the building, but it didn't apply to my building. We are a small building that sold 70% of our apartments in the first week on the market. It was priced well, no-frills, and the common charges reflected that. Because the carrying charges were so low, buyers figured their was a good chance they were too low. In reality, the budget wasn't too far off, but didn't include a reserve- which we wanted. When I re-did the budget, it reflected increases for a few years, a reserve, and the significant increase in Con-Ed related costs Everything else from the sponsors budget was pretty much in-line.

Bottom line was that I knew what I was buying when I signed on the dotted line- and it is important to read that prospectus very carefully. I knew before I signed the contract that it would be fiscally prudent for us to raise the common charges, and budgeted accordingly. I don't think enough buyers read the prospectus closely and are surprised if hefty increases need to occur within a short period after moving in.

semerun,
Not saying you have to do this to be well run. Far from it. But consider this:

Every x years, you have to incur "unexpected" costs of repairing the exterior of the building, which is a major cost. So if u slowly increase 3% a year for 10 years or you wait until the 10th year to sharply increase charges by 10% or 20%, someone somewhere has to pay for it. The bottom line is a building needs to have a reserve fund, much like individuals need to have emergency funds for WHEN, not IF, sh!t hits the fan. I want to be the owner during the 0% years than and sell those problems to someone else.

Regarding your point about your building, if your building was small and financially fine, then I wasn't referring to your building... more like some new devs that were advertising on TV and signs everywhere are having major issues right now. Maybe they should have put that money into selling something that someone wants.

aifamm, we are actually in agreement, but I think you missed the part where I said that I included a reserve fund as a portion of the massive increase that we passed to owners. I also built-in the equivalent of a 3% annual increase for 3 years into the common charges (sure it overfunds us initially, but it helped when we were still very young with little cash). On that part- we allocated nearly 12% of our annual budget toward a reserve fund and our operating fund is a bit overfunded as a result of building in the annual increases up front.

"Every x years, you have to incur "unexpected" costs of repairing the exterior of the building, which is a major cost."

Not even "unexpected", just infrequent, yet major.

Like $140,000 for a new roof every 15 years.

$170,000 for new windows every 20 years.

$70,000 for "repointing" the bricks every 10 years.

$70,000 for repainting the lobby and common areas every 10 years.

And here's a doozy I'm hearing about from my friend who lives on Fifth: A MILLION DOLLARS to replace elevators that were installed in 1955, had a lifetime of only 40 years, had another 15 years of service squeezed out of them (and really ought to have been replaced during the flush times 10 years ago, when the board instead decided to spring for a roof deck and high-end lobby renovation), and are now being held together literally with duct tape and twist ties.

In fact the day of reckoning is arriving for quite a few '60s-era postwars whose elevators have been living on borrowed time for the past decade.

Why do you need new windows every 20 years? The lifespan should be much longer than that. Even wood windows from the 19th C last over 100 years if properly maintained. Bricks do not need to be repointed every 10 years. I am also curious about elevator replacement, 40 years seems pretty short.

"Why do you need new windows every 20 years? The lifespan should be much longer than that. Even wood windows from the 19th C last over 100 years if properly maintained."

Modern windows have much shorter lifespans, particularly if the board cuts corners and gets low-end or medium-end windows to save money.

***

"Bricks do not need to be repointed every 10 years."

Actually, yes they do.

***

"I am also curious about elevator replacement, 40 years seems pretty short."

40 years is pretty much on the high end for any piece of mechanical machinery. Most modern elevators, believe it or not, have only a 20 year lifespan.

Matt: that is shocking about the windows, buildings must really cheap out on their windows. Prewar buildings certainly don't have window replacements every 20 yrs around my neighborhood. I'm curious about the brickwork - brickwork on prewar buildings is definitely NOT repointed every 10 years around here, and it looks fine.

Matt will provide evidence for his statements momentarily ... please stand by.

evidence? Matt don't need no stinkin' evidence.

Alan, eat me.

Yes, nyc10023 -- sadly, many buildings DO cheap out on their windows.

And repointing brick is not about appearances -- it's about maintaining structural integrity. And in the city, it often requires doing every 10 years.

Testy, testy Matt. did the board meeting last night not go so well? no one to reject?

Not in my part of the city, Matt. Repointing most certainly does not need to happen every 10 years, and it doesn't. I don't know how cheap your windows are, but even the cheaper postwar construction on the UWS doesn't need window replacement every 20 years.

For such a low condo, the person is much better renting and having flexability.

>> Not even "unexpected", just infrequent, yet major.
Yes... that would be why "unexpected" was in quotes. It was implied.

But my last building did indeed replace the bricks after 10 years... that is also why I put "unexpected" in quotes.

I can't find anyone discussing it (I may have missed it) but doesn't the amount you have in the bank factor into this equation? If you've saved a lot and your income is currently down, I assume that total assets (stock and cash/cash equivalents) should factor in to what you can reasonably afford, no?

"He walked me through the house once after one group of students vacated -- it looked like the bathrooms hadn't been cleaned for the entire year they were there. Clearly, the students didn't even own a vacuum ... there were months' worth of crumbs and ground-in potato chips in the living room carpet. The kitchen was an absolute horror; an entire year's worth of cooking and not a single spill wiped up. "

I think its the problem with "shared" spaces. When you get communal living, noone takes responsibility, and everyone assumes that everyone else will be messy... so they are too.

I think its very different renting to one or two people...

NEWSFLASH! Matt is wrong again!

nyc10023: "Bricks do not need to be repointed every 10 years."

Matt: "Actually, yes they do."

Per the Masonry Advisory Council: "A common maintenance task for brick masonry is repair of mortar joints. The longevity of mortar joints will vary with the exposure conditions and the mortar materials used, but a lifespan of more than 25 years is typical."

Per Old House Journal: "First and foremost, a good repointing job is meant to last, often in the range of 50-100 years. Shortcuts and poor craftsmanship not only result in a job that looks bad but also is one that will require future repointing more frequently than if the job had been done correctly in the first place."

Perhaps Matt's coop board financial standards are so needlessly rigourous because his building is squandering all of its maintenace dollars on needless repointing! So they need some very deep pockets to pay for all that mortar. Matt, is your brother-in-law the masonry contractor?

the newsflash would be if matt got something right. he is fond of making up facts to fit his opinions.

The real problem with Matt's coop board is that its vice president is a needlepointess, with not enough vice.

But in Matt's defense, what he meant is that the pointing needs to be *inspected* every five years. Five and ten are very similar numbers, and easy to mix up if facts aren't your thing.