Doorman strike (possible) and showing apartments?

I don't know about "most." Mine and several others I know have sent notices saying no open houses during a strike. In mine, only people holding a pass will be permitted to enter--that includes tenants and children and nannies. Security guard will not make any exceptions. Not sure how that would affect a broker.

Let's just hope there isn't a strike. Open houses are the least of it. Hauling one's own garbage to the street is worse.

Can't you just pay some people a few bucks to take out your garbage and also bring in someone to buzz people/take packages?

Why the heck does their union have so much power over you? (Coming from a townhouse dweller with no doorman, of course)

That union is very weak and non-confrontational, and rarely winds up striking.

AH - IMHO it's not that the union is weak, it's that the landlords usually cave.

in certain buildings you can only have an open house with one broker being downstairs escorting people up. this means that you'll need 2 people for the open house, if the building will allow it.

Kw, that means no guest? You can't invite people for dinners or kids for playdates?

No open houses, renovations or move-in/move-out. You can have guests, food delivery, etc, but you will need to meet them downstairs (ie. no one goes in the building unescorted).

On a side-note, I am not sure going on strike with 10% unemployment is such a great idea. That is the sort of move that doesn't end well for union members. They really don't have any leverage whatsoever at this point.

Yes to what waverly says above. I'm no expert on labor law, etc. I suspect that you cannot hire anyone other than a zombie security guard who isn't even allowed to use the intercom system because it would be like hiring a scab and the union would go berserk. I don't know what dance the coop/board/management co. have to do in this situation.

I don't think I want to pay someone to come get a bag of garbage from me every 24 hours. I'm not THAT lazy. It's all just annoying. I mean, really. To have to actually go to the lobby to meet food delivery men? What's next? Cleaning my own apartment? Wash my own car? Iron my own shirts? Where does the madness end? This is just terribly annoying.

Will this interfere with aboutready's ability to get a new toilet seat?

Kyle, what's wrong with using scabs? The only thing they can do is put a measly 1 or 2 doormen that work currently at a building in front of the building to picket. And what are they picketing? People live there - it's not a store. In fact I don't know what the heck picketing is good for really.

> isn't even allowed to use the intercom system because it would be like hiring a scab and the union
> would go berserk.

Let me get this right... unions can strike and refuse to provide service and f you. And you're supposed to sit and take it. You can't complain.
But getting someone to do your necessary services because they won't... and they go "beserk".

Talk about stupid rationalizations...

If unions have the power to strike, then employers should have the power to replace them.

Otherwise you have the moronic government model of unions having all the power, and fing everybody and taking $300k pensions.

And if the strike does happen, I think no christmas bonuses for them. I think they picked the absolutely worst time to try to squeeze the buildings. Maint. increases, unemployment, etc.

somewhere: I'm not endorsing the state of affairs. We'd probably agree on much of this. In reality, I get up, go to work, come home, pay my bills. I'm not out to change the doorman world, who we hire in a strike, what the board decides. I have an excellent board that responsibly stewards our building and I have zero--ZERO--desire to inject myself into building operations. The strike will come and the strike will go and life will continue. I do my fair share of saving the world for 10 hours a day. I haven't any desire to continue that exhausting endeavor when I walk into my home at night. This is someone else's fight. Not mine.

I know of 2 co-ops that, in case of a strike, decided to fire the union stuff and get rid of unions for full-time rs and start from scratch. Never thought it was possible, but apparently there's something in the labor law to base this on.
Thye'll have to go without staff for some time but then it's clean slate.

My building (Millennium - 30 West Street) is non-union....
Pay/benefits are slightly higher than union buildings.

when you don't want union employees best way is to match benefits and pay. smart move

Am I the only pro-union person on this board? Seriously?

Pay for the doorman, porter, etc. jobs is not that good. The only reason at all that these are decent jobs is that the union has fought hard for benefits like vacation (my doormen do get more weeks a year off than I do) and health/pension benefits.

The contract comes up for renewal every three or four years, and in my twenty years of experience living in NYC, the inconvenience has been minimal.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Agreed... of course, the unions know the only way to "get at" management is to F the people who need the service... whether folks who live in the building, or folks who ride the subway.

So, yes, bonus time 'aint that far off... and it will be remembered.

We should start making that clear.

Supers get free apartments, too. Almost everyone I know had to cut back, and pay more for their benefits, and forget extra time off.
Doormen and other building staff didn't have to invest in their education; they have no trasferable skills; if people want to make more money, they should look for different occupations, not to blackmail their employers. Especially when the employer is a building where people just live, not make money.

I am generally in favor of unions, but some have a history of asking for too much and providing too little. In this case, the unions have been provided with more job security than many people have gotten over the past 18 months (including the people that live in the buildings they work in). Times are tough and this is not the time to be asking for ANYTHING additional. Now is the time to be happy that you have what you have. My personal feeling is that if they strike, they have effectively resigned and we accept their resignations. There are PLENTY of people who are unemployed who would love to have a job.

A tsunami hits NYC. Borkers' first question 'does this mean the open house is cancelled?'

no w67th, first question is did the tsunami hit any of my listings? second question is can we still have the open house? third question is will this affect mortgage availability due to flood insurance issues?

i pay them more in bonuses then i do my entire FAMILY! seriously, how much more do they want? privatize these mofo's and put some hungry third-worlders on their position who'll appreciate the $70k salaries pensions, freeing up owner money to spend in restaurants, strip clubs, and sex shops, all the more stimulating (pun intended) the economy.

True that. To both posts above.

Just so you know we are not asking for anything additional. Maybe a quarter a year raise. It used to be 50 cents a year until the last contract. Every contract things are taking away from us. Its what they are trying to take away from us that could possibley lead to a strike. They want to cut down from 10 sick days to 5. Yes I know we are lucky to have sick days but for those who work on weekends how are they supposed to go to important events (weddings, birthdays,religious events etc) that are usually on weekends. what about those with families who have children that get sick and have no one to watch them. I dont foresee a strike. If things just stayed the same there definitely would not be a strike. They want to make it 5 years before employees get full pay and take away seniority and overtime. Also want to make us pay more for health coverage. I think they want to do away with pensions for new employess too.
As for people who are out of work and looking for jobs. I see people drop off resumes all the time and I would maybe interview 1 out of every ten candidates that come in. The resumes are horrible and their english is bad. We have had only one college graduate come in and after a bcakground check discovered he had a case against him for child molestation.
We do not want to have a strike so dont hold anything against your staff. Its hard enough for most of them to survive in this city.

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.

where's my small violin?

who the hell still uses full sick days and vacation days in this economy? oh wait, those in my firm that were fired. my 401k is a joke and i don't get a guaranteed pension. they should've emphasized union jobs in college instead of wall street movie trailers so that i could be pimping the system from working taxpayers and watching xvideos on my laptop during my shift while i 'work.'

"who the hell still uses full sick days and vacation days in this economy" People who arent obssessed wih making money and want to enjoy their lifes take vacation and sick days. You seem to think its such a great job. I would offer you an invitation to bring your resume but somehow with your attitude I dont think they would hire you.

kevin, why are you looking for college graduates for doormen? I don't get it.

Oh and people with so called prestigous jobs dont f--- around while working. None of them lie, cheat, steal or pimp the system. The biggest crooks are the ones who make the most money.

WAD- im not looking for them its just that people are talking about how hard it is to get a job and I dont see anyone with degrees coming in. Some people are making it out like we have the world and do nothing then why arent more graduates who cant find jobs working in those positions. At least for the time being until everything picks up.

enjoy there lives? you have that luxury?? how?! money's the last thing on my mind.

i want to get home at a decent hour before 1AM so that i can enjoy what's left of my diminishing relationship with my concubine that i rarely see, and be able to sleep at night to save my home with increased maintenance, and taxes, with a lower salary (probably less $/hr than you and DEFINITELY less vaca/sick days), and much more competition from colleagues.

i want to be able to have sex again without having to look at my watch to support a workload of a let go three man team in my department due to costs and feed my non-unionized daughter with food made from starch and wheat, instead of hope and rhetoric.

I have that luxury because I dont live beyond my means. I make sure I have at least 2 or 3 years worth of money set aside in case anything happens. I didnt choose this career. I was a college graduate and fell into it. I loved that I work 7 to 3. I get to avoid the rush hours. My stress in usually minimal. Get to go to the gym before its crowded. Get to enjoy the sunlight after work. The little things are what make me happy which is why I have stayed despite the low pay. When I say low pay I mean in terms of affording to live in Nyc. We are not underpaid. I am not saying that.
Im not saying that I dont feel for people like yourself who are struggling. I just dont get why there is so much hate. I mean I understand that a lot of the workers in these buidling are bad but management is partly to blame for that. There are a lot of hard working employees who care about the buldings and people who live in them.

...back to the question...the last time there was a strike, sometime in the early '90s if I remember correctly, our coop suspended all open houses & construction/renovation work. I live in a manually operated elevator building (we don't have a doorman, we have an "Elevator Guy". Our building's managing agent hired a guard who sat downstairs and only the folks with keys, or guests that were buzzed in...got in, he did not ever run the elevator. For that, we had a sign up sheet (set up beforehand) to volunteer for shifts to run the elevator, and to take out garbage. One of the reasons buildings have doormen is for safety issues, so the building wants to have as little goings-on as possible. Oh yeah, and we had to go down to the lobby to pick up our takeout food deliveries. It does suck, and is an inconvenience, but I know all the guys in our building would much rather be working than striking.

This issue comes up fairly frequently, as the contracts they negotiate are never all that long. usually, they don't strike, but come to some agreement where they will continue to work while they continue to negotiate the new contract. However, I would be willing to bet as a matter of public policy, "temporary" security guards would be allowed to either use the intercom system, or simply use the telephone to call tenants when someone arrived at the front door. More than a few Coops already have policies of either no open houses of that for open houses the Broker must come down to the lobby and escort all buyers up, in the same way more than a few have policies that restaurant deliveries must be picked up at teh front desk rather than allowing the "menu slippers" to run amok thru the building every time they made a delivery to a unit in the building.

I would bet that many Coops will place a moratorium on open houses, but the simple way around this, just like in buildings which don't allow open houses at all, is the old "open house by appointment" ruse.

Also, I think many would be surprised at how many supposedly "doorman" buildings aren't actually "doorman" buildings to begin with, and define the position as "security" to avoid dealing with union doormen in the first place.

"I make sure I have at least 2 or 3 years worth of money set aside in case anything happens."

you mean 2 or 3 years of taxes i paid for you and your salary & pension.. how about a thanks? then you go and buy muffins at the corner bodega and pretend not to be fat while spiting my daughter for eating ramen noodles and cat food. how about you pay me a unit owner bonus this year with all that extra time you have to sell your side art on e-bay?

you can get my thanks when you thank me for the wonderful job I do for you. Do you thank your employer for your salary and benefits? I actually eat grilled chicken,tuna fish and protein shakes and am no where near fat. Im sure if you do a good enough job your employer will give you a handsome bonus. I did take one art class in college and actually enjoyed it. I have 2 drawings I made and would never sell them. Someone offered me 250 for one of them a long time ago. In terms of ebay. I dont use it. Anything, I have of value that I dont want I just give it away and I dont even use it as a tax deduction.

i haven't had time to go to the gym in a year because i'm too busy supporting your pension. i have side rolls for the first time in my life, and my body fat peaked at 12%. i can't walk past 2nd ave while the sun's out.

what wonderful job? you never offer me any of your muffins or empanadas which stench lingers in my lobby, questioned by my anonymous guests.

i've done things to my boss my concubine wouldn't approve of (unless paid) in order to keep my job to secures my tiny flat on avenue D in alphabet city..i also used to paint on the side during my emo stage when i questioned my sexuality, but i had to pawn them to buy more cat food.

Thats a cop out. You are on the computer typing for the last hour so of course you have time to go to the gym.

If I were you I would complain about people eating in the lobby. That is totally unprofessional and anyone doing it should be written up. So should the guys on their cell phones, those having conversation while tenants are walking by, those taking extra breaks etc. I would complain to the board. People like that dont deserve to work there. I see the things you are talking about and it disgusts me too but its not everyone.

Ave d has doorman buildings??? i didnt know that. It sounds like to me you would be better off in a larger apartment in a non doorman building. Much cheaper and more space and no one will be in your business.

hol4, i'm impressed. how'd you find a building on avenue D with a doorman?

you need a concubine who appreciates you more, who is willing to accept your necessary acts without remuneration. i'd bet your whole outlook on life would improve immeasurably.

i'm actually very busy. i'm online at C-town using my ipad to communicate. i don't know if people are looking at me because of said ipad or the cart full of cat food for my daughter since half my salary goes to your pension so you can continue to circle jerk on SE while you 'work.'

well spoken

with this economy I dont know if its wise to be buying expensive items like that while your employer is paying you. You never know when you might get relieved of your duties. I really think you might want to sell and move somewhere more affordable. You might be happier having a safety net. I couldnt imagine the stress you have when you walk past the wealthy doorman with their amazing pensions. By the way, we dont even have a computer at work so I would have to go to the bathroom to do that.

you're #2-ing right now?

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose
Me and Bobby McGee

aboutready
26 minutes ago
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hol4, i'm impressed. how'd you find a building on avenue D with a doorman?
you need a concubine who appreciates you more, who is willing to accept your necessary acts without remuneration. i'd bet your whole outlook on life would improve immeasurably.

How appropriate, aboutready talking about whores.

w67thstreet
about 2 hours ago
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A tsunami hits NYC. Borkers' first question 'does this mean the open house is cancelled?'

A tsunami hits NYC. Aboutready checks to see if she can post something negative on a streeteasy blog.

A tsunami hits NYC. Columbiacounty actually smiles.

prada- interesting your building is non- union. i have heard nothing but rave reviews about the service/staff. i wonder if somehow the two are related. do you know why 30 west went in that direction?

Union buildings are actually a NYC thing. Go to any lage building in NJ and they are fully staffed by illegals. I predict the same will happen in NY within the next 5-10 years.

Kevin, here is some insight as to why people on this board are upset.
You may not have noticed but unemployment is extremely high- i don't think any of those people were given the option to strike. So many people are out of work, so many people are struggling, for many fortunate enough to have jobs we saw our benefits cut, compensation cut and or higher cost for benefits. And at holiday time we all dug into our pockets to tip the building staff.
I for one must work harder and longer for a lot less $$. And at year end i thanked my boss for everything because i know how many people have it worse. I did not get to strike. If it were up to me I would replace every worker that strikes. No one is asking you to work in an asbestos filled tunnel.

RE2009 - Don't know why my building is non-union. Millennium Partners decided that.
The staff is FABULOUS!

Midtown. I understand why some people are upset. I know unemployment is bad. The thing is that with each contract things seem to get a little worse for us. If we continue to give up stuff where is it gonna leave us. Most of my coworkers struggle to survive living in nyc. Out of the 30 people in my building none of them want to strike. You think a guy with 4 kids wants to lose money by going on strike. That guy just wants to be able to pay his bills. I greatly appreciate the gifts I receive at xmas time. If our union decides to strike do we realy have a choice??? You think we want to inconveniance people that we have developed relationships with.

I'm just curious, everyone (except kevin5): how much do you think doormen earn in salary each year?

(Fro simplicity's sake, let's exclude tips, which can vary wildly ... in my building, I've been told, an apartment will on average tip $20 for Christmas to a pool that gets split between security guards, super, porters, and a handyman. That's appalling, as I hope everyone but Matt will agree).

C'mon, don't be shy ... how much per year?

30, do you know of a case when a building went from union to non-union?

Kevin, whenever I start feeling sorry for your plight, I keep coming back to one idea: YOU ARE DOORMEN! I have to say that several times- YOU ARE DOORMEN! YOU ARE DOORMEN! YOU ARE DOORMEN! You aren't scientists. You aren't nurses. You aren't teachers. Many billions of people on this earth go about their daily lives without the help of someone to open their front door for them or empty their garbage, and they do just fine.

Your job shouldn't really exist. It only exists in this rarefied atmosphere of new york city disgustingly pretentious living where people think it is ok to pay exorbitant prices for necessities and even more for things they don't need. You should be plowing fields or digging ditches or putting things in crates at factories. These doorman jobs are figments of the nyc imagination. Knowing all this, I would personally be EMBARASSED to strike over anything related to this job. In fact, if I were a doorman, I would get down on my knees and thank God every single day that society allows this job to exist.

You SHOULD take a paycut while other people are taking a jobcut. You SHOULD contribute plenty toward your health insurance while other people have lost their insurance or never had it to begin with. You SHOULD not get any paid sick days when there are PLENTY of people out there who would come to work with pneumonia if they had a job to come to.

NYCROBOT — ditto.

NYCROBOT - thanks, i came.

except you forgot that our taxes fund their pension. PENSION, as in guaranteed payments, NOT a retirement vehicle that can vanish depending how the market moves. A guaranteed payment, from our taxes.

Kevin, maybe you should tell your union that the hardworking people in the buildings you work for can learn to live without you. It's just an inconvenience, no more than that, and after a while there will be ways to do away with being blackmailed.

And you guys can just arrange your lives so that you're home for all deliveries, you pick up your drycleaning before 7 or whenever it closes, you have Fedexed documents return repeatedly to their distribution centers, or spend all your time at your own workplace dealing with the comings and goings of all of these things. You can stay cloistered in your apartments from 7:30pm, lest bad guys follow you home and into your building. Keep your apartment keys in your pocket when you go out, and hope they don't get lost in your drunken stupor.

Doormen exist in NY because they replaced private servants when it stopped being totally déclassé to live in apartment buildings.

What many people here are saying is that their own failure to man up and get decent benefits means that nobody should ... although I think most of them are lying, and actually get very generous benefits.

hol4, how do taxes fund their pensions?

Everybody, how much do you think doormen earn in salary? For such, um, verbal people you're all pretty timid about saying. C'mon ...

inquirer:

Annie Hall: Sometimes I ask myself how I'd stand up under torture.
Alvy Singer: You? You kiddin'? If the Gestapo would take away your Bloomingdale's charge card, you'd tell 'em everything.

with each contract things get a little worse for you... I think every person currently unemployed can say that. Along with the poeple taking pay cuts and paying more for insurance as well as people who saw their 401k's and IRA's (self funded) cut in half.
I have an open mind- educated me as to what makes you better then and gives you the right to strike.

my guess is 40-60k salary. 10-15k tax free holiday tips. and in many buildings various off duty cash jobs.

alanhart: well.
But really, in my sister's building,they had 3 doormen working 4 to 12 midnight shifts. Citizens were ok in the hour when no doormen were on duty. So the board decided to fire all union members and then go back security guards and 2 porters. Worked like a charm, and even their nasty super turned into a real human being.

"Each doorman costs around $80,000 ($37,315 in salary, plus overtime, benefits, training and other expenses" - NYT 2006

who the hell gets overtime these days? i want illegal 3rd-wolders who'd work for no OT. i want little elian munching on empanadas happily.

I just saw a pic of Elian all grown up at a Young People for Communism rally or something in Cuba. I think the Post had the pic.

yes he's a looker, and i'd ship him 1st class cargo to port elizabeth, cut his OT, double his bonus, and reduce my maintenance costs fairly and accordingly to actual 'work' performed, and invite him to condo parties as a nice talking point/accessory. and after all this, he'd probably appreciate it and say thank you.

meritocracy, what a concept.

alanhart: "And you guys can just arrange your lives so that you're home for all deliveries, you pick up your drycleaning before 7 or whenever it closes, you have Fedexed documents return repeatedly to their distribution centers, or spend all your time at your own workplace dealing with the comings and goings of all of these things. You can stay cloistered in your apartments from 7:30pm, lest bad guys follow you home and into your building. Keep your apartment keys in your pocket when you go out, and hope they don't get lost in your drunken stupor."

You've just described the lives of MOST New Yorkers; those of us who live in NON-DOORMEN buildings. Yes, it can be done.

***

hol4: "i haven't had time to go to the gym in a year because i'm too busy supporting your pension."

How are your taxes supporting the pension of a private employee?

***

"who the hell gets overtime these days?"

Quite a few of us. Myself, for one. My father, a nuclear engineer, for another. Virtually every nurse I know gets overtime. Cops, firefighters, court reporters, television writers, television directors, stage managers, actors, musicians ... the list goes on and on.

is everyone on this board really facing pay cuts, reduced vacation and sick time, reduced seniority and the like? this household is facing, after increased taxes and reduced profits but increased seniority, stagnant wages, and i feel grateful that thus far that's all it is.

if kevin's salary or benefits go down, who will it affect? the taxpayer? no, the residents. so you are saying that you'd personally like to see kevin take home LESS. i guess that means you'd like to pay less. who wouldn't? but i just read the average college grad will be taking home something in the mid-50s their first year out of college. $37k plus benefits per person for a group of people who average much more than one year's worth of experience and who you rely upon to make your lives safe and smooth doesn't seem excessive. and i'm pretty sure they as a group have to put up with quite a lot of shit from their "employers," the residents.

so fine, be outraged. but as the union isn't asking for more, just not as much of a reduction, admit that your anger is either at being inconvenienced or because you're angry that you pay so much maintenance/rent/cc (although with the rent the savings won't be passed along) and would like to pay less. if you're so upset about the costs, maybe you should forego the luxury of doormen and live in a building without them.

"is everyone on this board really facing pay cuts, reduced vacation and sick time, reduced seniority and the like?"

Yes. There are 440,000 unemployed people living in New York City. That's not counting the thousands of others who've been forced to take pay cuts just to keep their jobs.

***

"i just read the average college grad will be taking home something in the mid-50s their first year out of college. $37k plus benefits per person for a group of people who average much more than one year's worth of experience and who you rely upon to make your lives safe and smooth doesn't seem excessive."

College grads -- even those with no work experience -- SHOULD make more money than doormen. I'm not belittling anyone's livelihood, but let's get a grip here ... they're DOORMEN. There is no education required, no special training needed. There's no real marketable skill set required for employment, other than being over 18 and mobile. $37K for a job that requires no education or skills, with a steady schedule, health insurance, and a pension is practically like taking candy from a baby.

***

"if you're so upset about the costs, maybe you should forego the luxury of doormen and live in a building without them."

Or perhaps the shareholders of the building could simply decide to eliminate the doormen and decide to make do with electric door buzzers like the rest of New York City.

matt, i'm talking about people on THIS board. the ones who are living in coops and condos. i realize that many are unemployed. i realize that many are suffering. but many are not.

and the doormen include many who've worked for twenty years, the average certainly aren't new. i disagree. four years studying english at a second-rate or third-rate college does not mean you should make two times starting someone who's worked for a fair amount of time. you once said you'd be happy to be a stay-at-home mom. i bet you'd be happy to be a doorman too.

yes, eliminating doormen and replacing them with electric door buzzers would be an option. i wonder how well that would fly with the people here who are complaining about the costs of the doormen. that's my point.

We loved the idea of doormen, package room staff, etc. when renting in a large building. But when searching for an apartment we could purchase and seeing the difference in maintenance in black and white, I managed to convince my partner we should search in "no frills" buildings.

The way I look at it is we can contribute $1,000/month to someone else's medical benefits and retirement, or we can contribute $1,000/month extra to our own. And while our salaries have, thankfully, increased even during the recession, our medical and retirement benefits have been cut severely. In my current healthplan, the first $5,000 of costs are entirely on me. I actually don't think this is a bad thing -- consumers do need to take on more individual risk to keep costs down -- but I'm not willing to voluntarily pay for someone else's cadillac plan, nor obligate myself to continue to fund the unrealistic retirement and healthcare benefits that have been promised to union employees.

First of all, sick days are not extra vacation days. They are for when you are sick. Second, you are asking for raises at a time when many have lost their jobs and many, many more have had their compensation slashed.

Get with it.

This is the flip side to lower rents. To those celebrating lower rents, understand that energy and labor are the two biggest costs. The land lord of that rental building can't lower the cost of oil, so he'll look to renegotiate lower labor costs.

waverly, they are not asking for raises. and please. you're in the employment sector. sick leave is commonly used, and indeed many companies require it, when parents have to care for sick children.

lad, i agree. i have no problem opening my own door or having packages sent to my husband's office. we've owned three apartments, none have had doormen, all have had extremely low costs (common charges of $400 per month at the 1300sf 2/2 condo we sold in 2004 in chelsea).

AR - I agree with you on taking care of sick kids, but that is not what was posted:

"Maybe a quarter a year raise...Yes I know we are lucky to have sick days but for those who work on weekends how are they supposed to go to important events (weddings, birthdays,religious events etc)"

That's an hourly increase and sick days to go to birthdays...that's not okay. Most companies give people 3-5 sick days.

"but I'm not willing to voluntarily pay for someone else's cadillac plan, nor obligate myself to continue to fund the unrealistic retirement and healthcare benefits that have been promised to union employees."

agreed.

ar, you're trying to skew the argument so you can continue to leech. you're point is moot, asking why we pay for them? i happily pay and bonus my nanny, landscapers for my parents' home, mechanic, contractors, barber, preferred bartender, etc etc. how does an arm-twisting doorman differ from these generally non-transferable roles?

kudos to the simple life if you choose so ala my nanny, barber, etc. but i don't see them asking me to cover their benefits, pensions, extra sick days, etc.

my sick days have been cut to zero and i haven't seen my daughter proper in several months. the silver lining is that she now knows how to cook, use an oven, do her own laundry, and enjoy cat food at the age of 6, so that maybe when she grows older she won't have to depend on other people to fund her own pension.

waverly, i thought there was something in his post about sick kids. sorry. and i agree sick days should not be used to go to birthdays, schedules should be rearranged. but that's again an issue of individual abuse. the union is not asking to increase the number of sick days. i don't know the details of all the changes that are being asked of the union, so i'm not truly able to opine. 3-5 days sick leave isn't what i've ever experienced, but i defer to you as it's your field and you have awareness of far more areas than i do.

i agree many need to make concessions, but it can be a slippery slope, you know? at what point should people just be grateful to have a job? many argue that minimum wage requirements should be suspended, for example. do we allow employers to require OT without OT pay due to the economy? do we require job sharing, so that fewer people are unemployed but far more have less work than needed to make ends meet? do we, as people seem inclined to do so here, just fire everyone and hire scabs (which i don't think is legal, but may be pushed through during a time such as this)? you comment is actually the one that made me think. something along the lines of i'm generally not against unions, but at times like these everyone should just be grateful to have a job. it's in times like these that unions can lose all power, because of such sentiment, and largely disappear, which might not be your agenda but which would make many very happy. i think there are enormous issues with the unions, and i can see huge problems with the pension issues as well as other, but some seem vital to me to prevent abuse, and i think this is complicated.

kevin, can you clarify the quarter a year raise? i thought you were being sarcastic, and meant it literally. were you talking about an hourly raise?

hol, i'd think one of the benefits of eating cat food is that you don't need to turn on the oven. unless she enjoys hers sauteed?

I'm with hol4. It's easy to support these raises when you don't bear the cost of them.

you're with hol? you're feeding your daughter cat food too?

btw, i don't think there were any "raises."

ah...the great american spirit. more, more, more for me, me, me. and none for you, you you.

the cat food can be eaten straight from the packet, good protein source. i tell my daughter it's to save on cooking gas so you don't have to look at me weird come bonus time in that sparkling uniform that i bought for you.

and btw, if the rest of the country took JOBcuts, and you're salary/benefits/pension funded from outside sources stayed the same, or even dipped a little; then yes, comparatively speaking you have a huge raise. all this rhetoric and still not a 'thank you.'

the bottom line is that the union is in a position to make life difficult for residents --- they have some leverage and they're trying to use it. how is this different than the yankees charging absurd prices for baseball tickets? no one who wants to go to a game likes it but they still manage to fill a lot of seats --- although they did back down on some of the most ridiculous pricing.

"matt, i'm talking about people on THIS board. the ones who are living in coops and condos. i realize that many are unemployed. i realize that many are suffering. but many are not."

Right.

Because no one living in a condo or co-op lost his job. Those people have been insulated from the depression.

The union has zero leverage. Their jobs can be eliminated and others will take them for less money.

Also, do you think people will give bonuses to them at Christmas time if they strike? The union cannot win. They can only choose how much they will lose...a little or a lot...just like everyone else has been dealing with over the past 18 months.

zero leverage? is this something new? having lived through strikes in the past, its no fun for the residents and pressure mounts quickly to find a way to settle.

matt, i know people who have lost their jobs. a few post here. a couple own coops. none of these people would be calling for doormen to take a cut in pay.

i'm talking about the majority of the people who post here. on this thread specifically. who would be happy to see doormen have their total packages reduced. honestly i'm really just curious.

No one is calling for them to take a cut in pay. The call is for a reduction in sick days and no increase in pay. No one is happy about that, but no one was happy when their pay was cut over the past 18 months either. These cuts trickle down.

Think of it this way...a firm has laid people off and has decided to freeze raises. You waltz into your manager's office and say, "Yeah, that's all well and good, but I need MY raise." That's not the real world. People have been hit hard and have had to make sacrifices. The union has had their job security, so now their sacrifice will be some sick days and no raise. That isn't harsh. Much, much worse has happened and is happening.

waverly- well put!!! exactly what i was trying to say but so frustrated by it yours came out better

how trite.

maintenance costs have a direct relationship to the benefits/pensions/overtime/sick pay that these pudgy white gloves enjoy.

over the years my maintenance costs have risen regardless to what happens in the market, which leaves less money for kitty letter and basic necessities.

again, no 'thank you.' little elian would be much more appreciative.

hey---a cut in benefits i.e. sick days is a cut in compensation. whether or not its justified, lets at least not sugarcoat it. and, as i said earlier, its really not about anything other than leverage.

the more apt analogy is when a strong performer who can move across the street to a competitor waltzes into the manager's office and announces that he wants a raise despite the wage freeze and layoffs. he doesn't earn any friends but stands a good chance of getting the $$$.

"The call is for a reduction in sick days and no increase in pay."

How many sick days do they get now, and what's management's proposal?

actually, it's more than that. but as i wrote earlier, i have no personal knowledge.

hol, maintenance costs also are affected by oil costs. i think you should refuse to pay for heating. tell management you don't need or want it.

regarding the kitty "letter," i'm sorry, it's clear you can't afford a cat. you probably should be getting rid of the concubine as well.

"i have no personal knowledge."

surprise, another leech who speaks of things he has no real world experience as he types away from his bungalow from putnam county.

my concubine works for mta cards; i've stopped paying her years ago to save up for my doormens' tax-free bonuses.

my heating/gas bill has fluctuated around 50-70 per month over the years. the only 2 costs that go up are my doorman's salary and time warner cable bill.

yes, i can read financial statements so i know how much is liable to them and what's reserved for them. re: time warner the raise is immaterial compared to pensions i have to fund for these uniformed cat mocking gangsters.

plus the porn i watch from my time warner greatly outweighs any inconvenience of having to wait for loading times on their crappy internet service.

hol, now i'm really impressed. not only did you find a doorman in a coop on avenue d, you found one where you pay your own heating costs rather than have them be included in the maintenance, and a concubine who works for MTA cards? you have skills.

It's just the concept of a union that really digs at people. If they were asking for no additional benefits, just the fact that they have a union seems like an "unfair" advantage to those of us that do not. Psychologically, that is a tough barrier to cross. Were they non-unionized and were paid based on supply/demand, I think it would be very difficult to argue against their salaries (well unless you're one of those people who also complains that athletes are paid so highly).

yes i have skills that pay the bills. unfortunately, also your bills.