Srtike--- holiday gift survey

they will get 100% less than they got last year.

not at all; union strike every contract renewal; rebny vs union; not your individual guys/gals.

It would depend on how long they strike for. A day or two -- I will forget by December. If it becomes some drawn out nightmare -- it will impact my feelings in December.

Any other thoughts?

They'll get nothing.
If the strike is longish, people will get used to not having their services.

I find it really funny that (presumably) everybody commenting here (except manhattanfox, if I understand her post correctly) made the choice to live in a doorman building, presumably paying extra for that amenity, and yet completely assume the service is worth less than its provider receives in compensation ... and unhesitatingly sides against that provider when it comes to a dispute.

Not one answer so far has been a more reasonable "pro rated by number of days" or some such approach.

Uh, alanhart, it's a tip, not a salary. Suppose you're at a restaurant and service is fine until dessert when waiter mysteriously spits in your dessert right in front of your face. Do you pay the tip on all the other dishes, dessert, and wine?

Not saying zero is right in this case, but pro rates is the stuff of salary.

don't think the analogy quite works. having lived through these strikes many years ago, my experience is that most people come to the conclusion that the job is actually quite a bit harder and more unpleasant than they realized (the amount of garbage generated by a 100 apartment building is truly shocking); furthermore, they realize how much of their lifestyle that they take for granted is dependent on the building staff and they pay up.

A decision made at the union level would not impact my holiday tipping on a building level at all.

I will tip my hardworking doorman and building staff exactly as I would in the event of no strike.

Is anyone going to increase their tipping if the strike doesn't happen??

A more relevant question: is the strike justified? Is this a reasonable request by a labor organization or the overpaid piano mover? Thoughts?

dks- would love to hear the thoughts on your questions.
And anyone with info would be helpfull, i have my opinions but not sure i have all the information.

"not at all; union strike every contract renewal; rebny vs union; not your individual guys/gals. "

Completely illogical. The union is made up of... get this.... our individual guys/gals.
They vote for their leadership, they made their own bed (and chose this industry and union).

Its like saying we can fight back about countries that attacked us because only the prime minister ordered the attack.

If union members don't suffer for the mistakes of their leadership, then thats bad for everyone, INCLUDING UNIONS.

They have only themselves to blame.

and, yes, this will absolutely affect my tips to them.

i would be interested to know why and how it will affect the tips

I don't know details of what the negotiations are about this year, but the last time a strike was averted, 2006, negotiations centered on the building owners' demand that staff pay 15% of the cost of their health benefits.

By way of comparison, my employer has a sliding scale for non-union employees, based on an employee's income. For those earning $38,000 (a doorman's salary) and quite a bit higher, the employee kicks in 3.5% of the cost.

Is the building staff supposed to just smile uncomfortably and say "yes sir" every time the opposing team makes unreasonable demands?

Eddie, you'll love this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/weekinreview/11grist.html?scp=1&sq=strike&st=cse

Hundreds of workers at the Danish brewer Carlsberg walked off the job in Copenhagen last week to protest a new policy restricting beer drinking at work to lunch breaks. Warehouse workers used to be able to help themselves to beer throughout the day — provided they didn’t get drunk. “There has been free beer, water and soft drinks everywhere,” Jens Bekke, a Carlsberg spokesman, told Reuters. The world’s fourth largest brewer, Carlsberg had been considering the restrictions for years. Carlsberg’s truck drivers joined the strike in sympathy, Mr. Bekke said, even though they are exempt from the new rules. Drivers are permitted to drink three beers a day outside of lunch hours. No worries, says the company. Carlsberg’s trucks are equipped with alcohol ignition locks.

>>>Is the building staff supposed to just smile uncomfortably and say "yes sir" every time the opposing team makes unreasonable demands?

They can quit.

... as easily as the residents can move to an unstaffed building.

Great points Alan about the health benefits...I think I heard they were trying to cut the number of sick days building employees can take from 10 to 5 each year. Unlike many people, doormen etc don't get paid if they don't come to work. But unlike the construction trades, which don't provide any paid days off, the average earnings in a good year are WAY less than six figures. Sounds to me like they may have some legitimate issues..

God willing for other reasons, my holiday tips will remain the same or even increase. Even our management company in their "policy note" went very far to disassociate the possible strike from the individual employees of our building.

And very good point CC, a few weeks of doing the building employees' work might raise sympathy for their cause...I for one do not relish sorting garbage.

I wonder what actions the Realty Advisory Board took in 2006, or at any time, to push for single-payer National Health so that building owners could be relieved of 100% of health insurance costs.

"$38,000 (a doorman's salary)"

"the average earnings in a good year are WAY less than six figures. Sounds to me like they may have some legitimate issues."

Sometimes I wonder what are you guys smoking, and how out of touch with reality the lot of you are. You think 40 grand a year is "too little" for a doorman salary?

What about the majority of population working in NYC, who gets exactly that – 40-45 grand a year with NO bonus - after years of schooling, and for much more stressful jobs than greeting residents and picking up packages? Since when a manual job with no training and no hard physical labor should cost more than a nurse, a teacher, an accountant?

Tell that to a hard working nurse, who went through years of highly competitive and demanding training and licensing. Your life and the life of your loved ones depends on nurses, they study harder and work much harder than any doorman can imagine (no comparison, really), but they do NOT get any tips!

Or how about those who work for CPA firms? I’ve heard the hours are a killer, the training is rigorous, and 40 grand is nothing to scoff at right after school.

You think NYC doormen should get six figures? Do you believe in a candy crapping unicorn, too? Not every MBA graduate gets six figures right away (or ever), and most of them have huge school loans to pay off. Think about the years of sacrifice and schooling involved, and a much higher stress that a six figure job usually implies…

I just don’t get it. I see hard working people all around me, and I do sympathize with a lot of them – working hard, getting paid very little. But unless you think that money grows on trees and everyone just makes tons of it for doing nothing (if so, lucky you, but the rest of us have to work for our living), why would you EVER consider doormen “underpaid” for what they do?

Here endeth the rant… Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

"$38,000 (a doorman's salary)"

"the average earnings in a good year are WAY less than six figures. Sounds to me like they may have some legitimate issues."

Sometimes I wonder what are you guys smoking, and how out of touch with reality the lot of you are. You think 40 grand a year is "too little" for a doorman salary?

What about the majority of population working in NYC, who gets exactly that – 40-45 grand a year with NO bonus - after years of schooling, and for much more stressful jobs than greeting residents and picking up packages? Since when a manual job with no training and no hard physical labor should cost more than a nurse, a teacher, an accountant?

Tell that to a hard working nurse, who went through years of highly competitive and demanding training and licensing. Your life and the life of your loved ones depends on nurses, they study harder and work much harder than any doorman can imagine (no comparison, really), but they do NOT get any tips!

Or how about those who work for CPA firms? I’ve heard the hours are a killer, the training is rigorous, and 40 grand is nothing to scoff at right after school.

You think NYC doormen should get six figures? Do you believe in a candy crapping unicorn, too? Not every MBA graduate gets six figures right away (or ever), and most of them have huge school loans to pay off. Think about the years of sacrifice and schooling involved, and a much higher stress that a six figure job usually implies…

I just don’t get it. I see hard working people all around me, and I do sympathize with a lot of them – working hard, getting paid very little. But unless you think that money grows on trees and everyone just makes tons of it for doing nothing (if so, lucky you, but the rest of us have to work for our living), why would you EVER consider doormen “underpaid” for what they do?

Here endeth the rant… Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

"By way of comparison, my employer has a sliding scale for non-union employees, based on an employee's income. For those earning $38,000 (a doorman's salary) and quite a bit higher, the employee kicks in 3.5% of the cost."

Don't know who your employer is, but at Morgan Stanley, you'll pay about 10% of the cost (and its a pretty good package). I know lots of other firms that make you put in $50 or $75 or $100 which cab be 10-15%.

When you talk about unskilled positions, consider that in the private sector, the employee could be paying 100%, or even 50%, particularly for small businesses.

> .. as easily as the residents can move to an unstaffed building.

Of course, moving to a non-unionized building is nearly impossible...

" wonder what actions the Realty Advisory Board took in 2006, or at any time, to push for single-payer National Health so that building owners could be relieved of 100% of health insurance costs."

None, it would be illogical, because the "single payer" would really be them... its coming out of somebody's taxes, and it sure 'aint gonna be the folks making $38k.

Don't you read the news?

Companies are all restating earnings because they are taking MAJOR hits to profitability because of these costs and tax increases.

A simple question: how is a doorman's job different from a no-tips, high health co-pay, no strike option job a person who tips the doorman?

Also: I don't see how the tips are owed on a job not performed.
alan, a lot of people live in the buildings that just happened to have a doorman. I'd be more than happy to have a choice on the matter but in the older big buildings thta's just it. And once a building made a mistake to sign up a union, that's it.

"And once a building made a mistake to sign up a union, that's it."

That's not how it works. Buildings don't choose to "sign up" a union. The workers themselves decide to unionize.

I don't think a strike should make any difference in how we tip our building staff during the holidays. The folks in my building don't want to strike at all - the decision to strike is made at a MUCH MUCH higher level than your handyman or my porter. Most if not all are REQUIRED to be in the union and are then required to play by union rules. It's not their fault if they are on strike for a week or a month or more. If anything, we should have empathy for them.

Union members vote on whether to strike, no?

ahhh, ehm313 now thats a fair question. any takers?

No.

They take a strike AUTHORIZATION vote. This vote gives the negotiating committee the authority to call a strike at their discretion.

"The folks in my building don't want to strike at all - the decision to strike is made at a MUCH MUCH higher level than your handyman or my porter."

That's not entirely true.

The entire membership covered under the contract votes on the strike authorization vote. The actual decision to call a strike is made by the negotiating committee, which is comprised of fellow union members covered under that same contract.

Thanks NYCMatt. None of my jobs have ever been unionized, so I didn't know the mechanics. It seemed implausible to me that the members of a union (at least the majority) didn't have a say on whether to set in motion the events that could lead to a strike.

"Question: how is a doorman's job different from a no-tips, high health co-pay, no strike option job a person who tips the doorman?"

Answer: A doorman's job is a much simpler job that doesn't require any special training, school loans, stress, doing without a pension or having to declare and pay taxes on all your earnings. Therefore, it should be unionized and heavily protected. That's the rule, the less demaning a job, the more freebies & perks you're entitled to receive.

> The workers themselves decide to unionize.

No, thats not how it works (and you should maybe learn before you correct others).

New York is not a right-to-work state (like most of the states with growing economies)... it REQUIRES union membership!

> Union members vote on whether to strike, no?

They certainly vote on leadership.

Interesting... no responses on this...

""By way of comparison, my employer has a sliding scale for non-union employees, based on an employee's income. For those earning $38,000 (a doorman's salary) and quite a bit higher, the employee kicks in 3.5% of the cost."

Don't know who your employer is, but at Morgan Stanley, you'll pay about 10% of the cost (and its a pretty good package). I know lots of other firms that make you put in $50 or $75 or $100 which cab be 10-15%.

When you talk about unskilled positions, consider that in the private sector, the employee could be paying 100%, or even 50%, particularly for small businesses."

So, I guess 10% isn't too much to ask....

Doormen in my building just said that they "have no voice" in the matter. They hate their leadership; they also understand that nowadays $40+ grand and full medical (and free apt. for the super) for people with no skills is very good deal. Also, they'll be antagonizing the people who live here (some of them make less than the doormen and cannot strike!)

If they're blaming it on "leadership" then too bad. You are responsible for your elected leaders, plain and simple.

"they also understand that nowadays $40+ grand and full medical (and free apt. for the super) for people with no skills is very good "

well, no duh.

But I also find it funny that the union head was on ny1 talking about "double digit cost of living increases every year", forgetting that rents, apartments, and pretty much everything else is DOWN.

Its like the rent stabilization idiots... who want rents to go down because costs go down one year, then when costs jump, they completely forgot they were arguing that...

What i have learned, from this very informative site, is not all doorman are union. So it's not as if this is a job you really, really want and you have to be in a union or find another job. So sorry to say... you made a choice to be in a union, don't cry about a strike.
If my information is incorrect please correct me.

bubbles, some buildings allow the non-union and advertise as such. And you're right, if the non-union staff decides to unionize, they can't cry about it later.
But the pressure from the union(s) is hard.