pros and con's in buying into a larger development

Like many things, it depends alot on the person. Some people, like myself, feel more secure in a smaller building where you know the staff by name and they know who you are. Other people might feel more comfortable living on a floor with many apartments instead of living on a more isolated floor with only a few apartments.

Another potential downside to buying in a large development might be that the sheer number of apartment residents could make it more difficult to come to a consensus on building issues.

Lobster - in a well run building, even a fairly large one (I'm in one that has over 200 apartments), believe me, the staff knows who you are and knows your name. And you know the staff.

And, even in larger buildings, the condo or coop board is usually the entity that deals with "building issues". You'd be surprised sometimes how few people want to be THAT involved with "building issues" and often prefer to leave it up to the people they have elected to the board.

It's really about finding a balance you're comfortable with. To me, the financial implications are just as important as the "living" implications. With more units, you have less to worry about if a handful of owners start falling behind on payments/default (building revenue that could potentially never come), but your voice is also undoubtedly smaller in any voting matter. In new buildings with fewer units, you're much more likely to see the units sell out completely in a shorter period of time (see 70 Berry, most recently), which means less hassle with the developer, and a smoother path to getting the building run the way the residents/condo board see fit. With that in mind, I aimed for a middle ground of 25-35 units, which has worked out well to date. But building size is only a small piece of the pie.

At some point a big coop can feel like a college dorm. Even though you own, you are almost irrelevant except in your own small domain. And while you know your neighbors, you set up boundaries.

good comments all round, thanks. I myself do like smaller boutique buildings (70 berry) that integrates itself within the context of the neighborhood but after seeing The Edge, I've been swayed by its views, decent fit-outs and a soon to be stunning pool. I guess I'm just trying to weigh the good and not so good on buying into such a large building with all the bells and whistles.

ph41: To me, 200 apartments isn't a large building. I was thinking more like 400-500 apartments - more like the Ansonia. It's really a matter of whether you want to live in a building with so many apartments.

A well-run building is well-run however large it is. But dealing with so much staff and living on a floor with many apartments isn't appealing to everyone.

hey bjw saw my unit at 70 berry yesterday...hope to be moving in May..the view from the roof is sick

moxie, congrats. seems like a lovely, successful building. have fun.

i don't personally want to pay for a lot of extras. i have zero need for a doorman. i don't particularly like building gyms. so i have always found buildings that are relatively no frills (and lower cc's). that doesn't mean not nice. i'd feel uncomfortable in a building with less than 15-20 units because i agree with bjw. it's beneficial to have at least a decent number of owners to pay for a new elevator/roof/whatever when needed. i owned in 2 condos (both about 20 units) and one condop (about 250 units). i knew about the same number of people personally in all three, although my husband who was treasurer at two of them knew a bit more (than he wanted to).

thx AR..just be forewarned we plan on spending as much time in your hood as our own..living near the east vill was a big draw for me and my wife.

superb, moxie. we love our hood. actually about ten to twele years ago (memory, wtf?), i was extremely excited about WB and greenpoint. we came very close to buying a townhouse in the more traditional area of greenpoint.

we haven't spent much time out in your area recently. but i think we'll take a trip out soon. or two or three. i recall when i told our real estate broker that w'burg would be a great development opportunity, he looked at me like i was insane(2000).

congrets mooxie... I think you're in a great building and being fully sold out in record time shows it's success..now only if more developers could put in a little more love into a no frills but high quality building, so many people would be snapping them up.

I couldn't agree more that WB is a great hood, and has shown so much potential to live and invest in. it will be interesting to see the progress in 6-10 years time

advantage of large buildings is usually lower common charges for lots of amenities.
but I'm thinking of buildings like Richard Meier where cc runs $4000/mo bc they're only 12 units or so. Intimate yes, but comes at a cost.

moxie, that's great - I'm really happy that building has worked out so well so far. I hope the punchlists are small and properly addressed (that's really your only major obstacle left at this point), and you elect a strong board. It might be fun to organize a smaller SE meetup for us Williamsburg/EV folk (dba, or one of the beer gardens maybe?). The only rule is no former NBA centers (or people impersonating them) allowed.

And totally agree that a major draw is to be close to the village (both east and west) and Union Sq. WB is an extension of the EV in many ways (some might cry sacrilege, but I don't think it's a stretch). NYers are smart enough not to let a little river get in the way of culture and fun.

As for building size, aboutready hit it on the head - footing a larger share of the bill when you're looking to add a costly amenity or make a significant repair is tougher to swallow. In my experience, elevators are the costliest amenity that's probably most "necessary." Like many of you here, I have no need for doormen, screening rooms, etc. That cash is better spent on restaurants and local businesses.

Truly appreciate the kind words bjw and j19.
As for a meetup i'm all for it. I think we should elect nycmatt or perfitz as the organizer. what do u think?
as for my move in the punchlist is foremost on my mind but so is the sequencing nightmare i'm about to embark on. painting,closet build out, window treatments, washer/dryer purchase and installation,and i believe built ins along our windows(storage,bench seating,bookcase). my head is spinning trying to figure out what should be done in what order. anyway as a friend of mine says those are "high class" problems.
AR it sounds like you were thinking ahead of the curve 10-12 yrs ago

moxie, you're more ambitious than I. It took me a year and half to get that far, and I still haven't decided what color to paint the living room (if anything). Unfortunately, I never got to see the units at 70 Berry - kind of bummed about that. How is the layout allowing for built-ins along your windows? Our heating baseboards are in the way, and would love to know if there's a smart way around that.

moxie, did you pay for an engineer to do the inspection? if so was it worth it?

J1972, it's worth getting an engineer in there if you suspect there are significant issues, but that's something that the building can pay for up to 2 years after first closing and still tag the sponsor/developer for, as per city law.

bjw, thanks ans noted.

j19, i will have an inspector do my walk thru with me before close but not an engineer
bjw, 70 berry does not have baseboard heating(has hv/ac units in each room) and has floor to ceiling windows.
the idea with the built ins is to reduce the window area that needs to be covered while adding some storage. as for your situation you could probably have built ins on short legs allowing room for the baseboard(but you may end up blocking a significant amount of your heat....don't know)

moxie, does the inspector cost less than an engineer? im getting quotes of 500-700 to hire an engineer

yes..if you look at the thread for the Forte on first few pages you will hear them discuss inspection pros and if memory serves around 200$..

Doorman costs get split amongst more units in a larger building. The same with other amenities. This leads to a lower maintenance cost in a larger building.

How can you possibly call some place home that has so many people who might have different values than you have? Better to be in a small building where you know who is involved in these decisions.