Women and Personal Finance

I agree, but I am not the norm. I have a fairly quantitative bkground. Got my first brokerage account at 18 (with my own $).

Another pet peeve I have is the lack of information most women (and men, but it matters less) have about the financial implications of divorce.

I was pretty successful with investing (using my technical knowledge) until my partner and I started investing together. We basically cancel each other out with our opinions. He's managed to talk me out of some very good positions and vice-versa.

I found this article very interesting because I am definitely one of the women they describe who doesn't find "money and investing as interesting as men do". I can balance the checkbook, do basic investments, figure out which insurance plan to purchase, but please don't make me do my own taxes. The "Simply Money" seminars run by Down to Earth Finance sound helpful and I'm thinking of signing up for the 12 class package.

lobster, doing your own taxes isn't generally recommended at a certain wage (much higher chance of audit, and i'll pay to avoid dealing with the IRS, also isn't your husband a partner at a law firm, those tax calculations are almost impossible even for our accountants). understanding roughly what your taxes might be under different circumstances is.

i'm the one who does all the investing in this family, and thankfully so. you're selling yourself short if you think that balancing the checkbook, basic investing (most investing should be fairly basic on the individual level), doing the real estate research and insurance planning isn't the major portion of "simply money." i'm assuming you also have a decent handle on your retirement savings. it sounds to me like you're doing very well.

lobster, why would you do that? because a bunch of authors with books to sell and seminars to fill, who happen to have been born with female reproductive organs, made you feel inadequate? anyway, what could you possibly learn from a bunch of dumb women? or was it all women are fincially illiterate, except these few who are mentioned in the article? are we even sure these are women? i say they are trannies. when you attend the seminar confirm that, ok?

did i really just read this shit in nytimes?

alex, it was incredibly f'ng lame, no?

but being surprised that it's in the NYtimes? that i'm surprised about.

Aboutready, my husband used to do our taxes until he became a partner because his law firm files taxes in several states, etc. and its way too complicated. In truth, I have difficulty getting all the material ready to submit to the accountant.

I found this article interesting because I assume that most women are as well-qualified and capable as men to handle all financial matters. But I've always wondered if many women are really interested in discussing finance, stocks, etc. as many men seem to be. When I was growing up, my father watched the "Nightly Business Report" on Channel 13 every evening and eventually both my brothers would watch it with him. I found the show very dull. But I guess as long as you can take care of financial matters, as both you and nyc10023 can do, that seems to be enough. If you're interested in finance, then its a bonus. I just hate male/female stereotyping and all those stories how women don't go into the math and science professions.

i'm surprised that it's so blatant.

"Not all women lack financial skills, of course"

geez

lobster, i don't get it. are you saying that 10023 and i can take care of financial matters but not do investing? i made a major mistake when i didn't predict the run-up recently, but i'm damned good at selling before disasters, and i've sold at the top the last two times.

i have no problems with the male/female stereotyping, except to the extent that it keeps women who are interested out of the professions. most women aren't interested in ph.d. programs in math and science. btw, who said those areas are the most important? men? who happen to excel at math and science but not necessarily at reasoning?

lobster, true story. one of the heads of school (top 5 private school, all-girls' school no less) told us at our meeting (for kindergarten admissions) that the number one sign that an eighth grade girl felt that she was intelligent was whether or not she was good at math. our daughter was accepted. we said no thank you.

analytical reasoning? no. and that is the ability of us females.

i agree with this. of course one should always make an effort to broaden their knowledge of topics that genuinely interest them. but this is a bunch of female authors, who barely even make an effort to conceal their animosity for women, saying that what you actually care about isn't good enough, and you should aspire to be just like them.

Aboutready, I'm certainly not saying that you lack any skill in financial matters. I don't know you personally but don't have any negative opinion of you at all. I certainly didn't intend to offend anyone by posting this article. I will sign off now and not comment again on this discussion. My apologies.

Yo lobster, please don't apologize for posting this!! It's fine!! If you want, take the finance class, couldn't hurt, right? Altho sexist, there's alota truth to this. Just remember to stay away from annuities!

lobster - I've read many of your posts on SE in the past. Let me just say that you seem to be an intelligent woman who, for whatever reason, has been made to doubt her own intelligence, to always second guess herself, to always apologize for any opinion offered (see comment above). I obviously have no idea as to the genesis of this self-doubt, but, as another intelligent (okay strong, opinionated) woman I would really like to see you come into your own. (Believe me, just getting all the tax records together is a helluva feat, which I leave to my husband, now that I don't do my own taxes). And my mother, the math person was a fabulous stock investor vs. my father, the dreamer English teacher (as in sugar stock in cuba right before Castro)

Lobster - I also agree with Dwell - take a finance class. But also remember - sometimes just seeing the things that we use, become aware of, become interested in ,can lead to some interesting stock picks. (okay, okay, Ebay early on).

sugar stock in cuba right before Castro

Oy!

Dwell - believe me, she made up for it, big time!!

the strong negative response was to the article not to lobster! whose reaction actually demostrates very well how women who are intelligent and capable are made to question themselves in the name of "feminism" by those who claim to be the arbitrators of famale worth.

When I was in high school I did telephone polling for NBC News. My favorite ever response:
[voice volume lowers a bit] "Ralph, do we favor or oppose the Equal Rights Amendment?"

Lobster: I have found that my mother's pretended kind of helplessness when it comes to "stuff" has probably gotten her more places than my stridently independent stance.

Ph41: agree with the ebay-zeitgest thing. Has led to a few good stock picks for me in the past, though we've been at an impasse for >10 years since we've been together.

AR: as I'm sure you're aware, most professionals suck at stock-picking too, as do most individuals investing for themselves. I am very suspicious of these self-help books & seminars because who's teaching whom, exactly? It would be interesting to learn more economic theory. Once I'm out of reproductive crunch mode, maybe I'll do another undergrad..

lobster, my apologies. this sort of stuff bothers me, obviously. as alex pointed out, i was hugely irritated with the content of the article, not you or your posting it. it is an interesting subject, and there's no need to flee because some people thought the article leaned toward insulting fluff. i agree with 10023, many people, including the professionals who claim to be experts, aren't good at this stuff. but i don't think it's gender.

actually, investing should be a big-picture type of thing. i'd think women if they'd trust themselves to learn would actually do better. to speak of stereotypes, women tend to be more cautious and pessimistic, but also more open-minded and flexible (huge generalizations, but true on a total population basis), and that combination should be good in most investing situations.

by all means take the class if it interests you.

10023, pretended helplessness isn't in our family's genes.

We all agree that there are significant differences between the brains of men and women right? We need to better understand the differences so that we can teach each gender with the appropriate pace and techniques. Of course there are plenty of incorrect generalization/stereotypes out there, but ignoring the differences is almost just as bad imo.

We all agree that there are significant differences between the brains of >>>different races>>>>right? We need to better understand the differences so that we can teach each gender with the appropriate pace and techniques. Of course there are plenty of incorrect generalization/stereotypes out there, but ignoring the differences is almost just as bad imo.

discuss

alex09, how about start by giving us your opinion first or confirm whether the above really is your opinion.

"i agree with 10023, many people, including the professionals who claim to be experts, aren't good at this stuff. but i don't think it's gender."

I think that is a key point AR. Most men I know that are interested in this stuff aren't very good at it. I liken it to golf. You can dress like a golfer, go to fancy courses, and buy expensive clubs but 95% of people that play really have no idea what they are doing.

lobster, I know a lot of very smart people that are horrible investors (men and women). Most of the men I know that talk a big game when it comes to investing are usually completely full of shit.

For much of my life, I've been a gender minority at school & work. As a woman who is numerically capable, this whole stereotyping biz is of great interest to me. My thots:

1) Females & males are wired differently and IN GENERAL, ON AVERAGE, perform differently in academic tasks.
2) Ditto people of different races, inasmuch as you can assign a race to anyone.
3) In each field, irrespective of how the AVERAGE person is wired, you will find both females & males & ALL races at the TOP. Numbers are different, and to a LARGE extent, this may have something to do with the lack of opportunity available to each group.
4) Most people, have huge reserves of untapped potential. For example, I believe (no proof or anything) that the vast majority of people who don't understand mtge amortization or compound interest rates CAN be taught successfully.

Well, I'm a female personal finance writer (who has worked with Tara Bernard at one point). And I've also been on Wall Street in the equities business. So I can tell you, wrapped in a pink bow, that there is one big secret to good stock-picking: insider information.

If you can manage to get a little edge without violating securities laws, you win. But the idea that people of either gender are going to consistently do well against competitors with better information, well, that's just silly.

Buy a diverse basket of stocks at a low transaction cost, put 'em away and don't look at 'em, and you'll make about 8 percent a year. If you feel that you are aware of something early (e.g. Ebay) then put 20 percent of your money -- call it your "risk" money -- towards that. But you're not consistently going to beat the house.

Certainly the Goldman scandal is showing us how stacked the deck is, even against insiders.

ali

FP: agreed.

What is interesting about what ph41 says is that often we are aware of trends before others. When I was working in telecom, I certainly had as much technical knowledge as the analysts covering the industry.

But I think what the article says is that women, in general, lack basic knowledge of the stock market. Which could be true.

lobster - I have ZERO interest in managing our finances. Taxes, investments.....sorry just woke up from 1/2 hour snooze. anyway, yeah, if i brushed up, i could probably wrap my head around some of it, but I just have absolutely no interest whatsoever (and math was always my strongest subject and i was always an honors student, so i'm not exactly a dummy :). We have a file on our computer called "show me the money" that has all our account info, passwords, etc in case something "unexpected" happens to my husband. I am absolutely comfortable leaving it at that. btw - didn't read the article you posted (not really interested :).

We have one of those files too. Encrypted and password protected of course.

Didn't read the NYT article since it doesn't apply to me (MBA and former portfolio manger/stock and bond analyst). I would like to confuse everyone with the facts. This tax season I was a volunteer certified tax preparer. Due to confidentiality rules, I can't discuss the taxpayers that I worked with (mainly retired seniors). I will just state that anyone (male, female or purple) who doesn't actively learn the basics about finances, investing and retirement is plain stupid. Leaving this important matter 100% to your spouse or ignoring it altogether is not that brightest move. It is fairly simple to learn the basics--The New York Times has a Personal Finance section. You can start there to learn about different investments. Most importantly, diversify!

LOL that is "former portfolio manager"

a person that's extremely good investing will not be giving advice to others neither in a book nor in an "investment group" unless they are old and/or already successful enough.

imho you can pick up the very basics from those books/groups and start from there. but the only people worth learning from obviously don't give their knowledge away like that.

> But I think what the article says is that women, in general, lack basic knowledge of the stock market.

let's face it, women lack basic knowledge of many areas (and i'm a woman myself). the fact that many home purchases were decided by a woman based on a kitchen and bathrooms even though we were in the middle of the biggest housing bubble says a lot about how clueless women can be.

that said, drop a diamond in the sidewalk and most women will be able to tell you the grade, clarity and stuff like that. women are not morons per se, but many succeed at putting most of their attention on moronic areas imho (hair, diamonds, cloth, ...).

I agree that everyone should at least learn the basics of finance and investing. With that said, I have seen many people learn just enough to get themselves into trouble.

In general, I always try to learn enough to know what I don't know.

"With that said, I have seen many people learn just enough to get themselves into trouble. "

so well said!!! maybe finance is one of those areas where either you go into full force or better abstain altogether.

stupid women! diamonds! hair! clothes! not all women are morons! per se, of course.
the housing bubble was now perpetuated by stupid women and their kitchens (where they presumably wear their diamonds and plot stupid bitchy things)

girls, no matter how much you embarrass yourselves by insulting all women, you won't actually become a boy untill you bite the bullet and go all the way. i've heard you can start by casually wearing men's clothes and gradually work up to the actual surgery. i don't have all the medical facts, but i'm sorry to say your penises will be purely decorative. still, better than a stupid diamond encrusted vagina. in a kitchen. with the clothes.

we are our own worst enemies (or should i say frenemies). men, of course, bought based on the decks and the space for the outdoor kitchens. ah, the roles of the sexes.

i will agree that many people need to discover that investing does not necessarily mean the stock market. and that while conservative investing and planning may not make you inordinately wealthy, you likely will not lose much also.

twenty years of marriage, i still don't have a set of diamonds, my left ring finger is bare. i know there are some c's involved, but i couldn't care less.

Well. I like diamonds, I like clothes, I like math, I like cooking, I like construction sites, I like lego, I like fast cars, I like model airplanes.

of course, 10023. but do you want to be defined by your diamonds? my husband is very fond of our roomba, he even chats with it.

10023, i'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the posters who made some of the more obscenely ridiculous statements don't actually know any women very well or have any female friends. per se.

i should have said at it. the roomba speaks, but not very eloquently.

alex, except for jm, alan, and possibly you and wavedeva, the posters have all been women.

i know that. and yes, i am of the female variety

"I found this article very interesting because I am definitely one of the women they describe who doesn't find "money and investing as interesting as men do"."

that's the comment that interests me. what percentage of men actually find investing interesting, compared to women? i'd guess it's higher, but by how much? and why?

alex, i see. well i don't know about their personal lives, generally, but it is true that women rarely discuss such things with each other (10023 and i have no such qualms). which mystifies me. over a long period of time i have discovered that a number of my female friends/acquaintances take care of almost everything financial, even when they have IB/accounting, etc. husbands. then i know some who couldn't even begin to tell you what assets the family has and where. i've heard some stories that could make you ill, and others that could make you smile.

of course. people are different. but i didn't mean that the others didn't know enough about people's finances. i meant, literally, they don't seem to know any real women very well. what they describe are cartoonish one dimensional stereotypes.

but one of the reason women seem to do so, i think, is that we don't know enough about each other. being a woman has become fairly isolating, at least in terms of womanhood, and particularly if children are involved. it's so divisive.

actually, our society has become similarly divisive. so much hatred. so much intolerance.

wavedeva - that's the beauty of having a spouse; you each bring different strengths and weaknesses to the relationship. i consider our finances a chore that, thankfully, i don't have to deal with (trust me - i have plenty of other things to juggle). could i? certainly (i was single once). i just don't want to and he's happy to take care of it.

i don't think being a woman is isolating, certainly not since having children. the opposite, actually. people isolate themselves.

I'm a hermaphrodite, so I go both ways.

uwsmom: with all due respect, because of the terrible history of women's rights w.r.t property law, I think that it is very important for married women to be well-educated as to their families' assets. Even when one is simply not interested. I would be very perturbed should any one of my daughters end up in a relationship (heterosexual or not) esp. with children, where they were not up-to-date with the finances. Even if they are not the ones dealing with the minutiae. And in a similar vein, because I am a housewife, I have to be careful to introduce as many positive examples of working-outside-the-home women as possible to my daughters.

AR: women - even my bestest female college friends, all of whom are multi-tasking, multi-talented mothers who work outside the home in quantitative jobs don't discuss money with me. My men friends discuss money with me.

Dwellie: I am well-acquainted with medical hermaphroditism. It is interesting.

alex, fascinating. you really think that people isolate themselves? and if so why?

i can count on one hand the women who have similar child-rearing goals as i do.

Alex: I found being a housewife profoundly isolating at the beginning because I forgot how to interact with women or at least the type (!) of women who become housewives on the Upper West Side. I can pretend now with the best of them.

10023- i know many women feel this way. i don't. i know what we have and how to access it. not sure why i need to know more than that at this point (look, we don't have much). i haven't heard an argument compelling enough to motivate me to learn more. as for my daughters, geez, i certainly want them to be independent, well-educated, and self-sufficient. but what i really want is for them to be happy (i know, cliche) and quite honestly, if they end up in a healthy and happy relationship, it's really none of my business how they share household responsibilities with their partner. your point about role models is interesting. never really gave that much thought (maybe i should).

Uwsmom: I can't post too much about this, but I know first-hand of a few situations where the worst things have happened to the nicest people, happiest marriage, blabla when it wouldn't have happened had one partner just checked periodically (say weekly) on accounts.

I'll throw another hypothetical at you - what if your daughter joins a polygamous sect or is in a profoundly unequal marriage? Happiness is one thing, and maybe it's futile but I intend to set my daughters up so that they won't blindsided. Truthfully, given the choice and given any power to tilt the balance going forwards (again, possibly futile), I choose to tilt in the direction of making my daughters a little paranoid.

point 1: i know there are horror stories, but i 100%, without reservation, trust my husband. end of story for me. its that simple.

point 2: i too, tend to plan for the worst, most unlikely scenario. my dear, level-headed husband continues to teach me that this is no way to live life :). i'm a slow learner.

I don't agree with that.

well, there's unlikely than there's really unlikely. the possibility that one of my daughters will join a polygamous sect seems really unlikely. but hey, who knows.

"girls, no matter how much you embarrass yourselves by insulting all women, you won't actually become a boy untill you bite the bullet and go all the way."

sorry alex if i offended your tastes, saying what i see is not enough to be lesbian. i guess you have to like women sexually for that.

who said anything about lesbians?

this thread is like a cross-over episode where the cast yb makes a very special appearance on streeteasy. i'm going to go ahead and remove myself from this conversation, though. good night.

pssssssss... all the boys are on this thread.... http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/20160-buying-now-beats-renting

coincidence? I don't think so....

For the record, I am a woman.

well the times didn't create the situation, they're just reporting on it, it is a problem and they do well to raise it; that said, i gagged my way through the article fairly quickly. i started as a jr port manager dealing with stocks, bonds and ETF's at a small FCM when I was 23. Still in finance but a different scenario now. Excluding this board, when I talk market, I would say 99% of the time it is with men - my friend's boyfriends, not my friends, my uncles, not my aunts, etc. My mother was a CPA and then went back to school to become a geologist/hydrologist/environmental scientist, and ALWAYS drilled into our heads the importantce of financial responsibility and education. She left my dad when i was 4 because he wanted her to stay home and have a third kid, and she wanted to go back to school to increase her earning potential, and, they were broke. My dad never did well financially. I will always be thankful to my mother for these lessons and am in a pretty good financial situation myself, do all my own investments, taxes, planning etc, continue to learn as the markets evolves, and follow international economic news with relative ease. my sister is the same way. it is a problem that all of us here are the exceptions to the rule, and i do think school, media and social programming are a huge part of the problem. they should teach economics in grade school. a bigger problem is that most people, regardless of gender, only use 3% of their brain power. they should write an article about that.

I wasn't going to write anything further on this thread, but it has been bothering me. I've been surprised at the fact that I enjoy reading many of the discussions on SE since I always had such little interest in both real estate and finance (as opposed to everyone else in NY). I do enjoy the level of discourse in many of the threads and that many of you seem to be intelligent and interesting people. My husband suggests to me all the time to just read the discussions and not participate since he knows that I don't like conflict. Not a good way to be if you want to participate on this Board. :)

uwsmom, I feel exactly as you do. I completely trust my husband to handle financial matters. Despite all the horror stories that people hear, I actually think its good to feel that safe with another person. That said, I do know the exact amounts of money that we have in all our joint and individual accounts and I make a net worth statement at the end of each year for myself. I do handle most of our joint investments and all my individual ones. But if for some reason, I couldn't handle them, I'm with uwsmom - I completely trust my husband to take care of things for us.

Unlike many of you, my mother didn't handle any of the investments. My father did all of that and when he passed away two years ago, I found out that my mother hadn't balanced the checkbook the whole time that he was ill. She wanted me to take over that function for her and to have one of my brothers who has a very high level position in a hedge fund to handle her investments. We fought for months, but I taught her how to balance a checkbook and other simple financial stuff and now she calls me up each month to tell me how she balanced the checkbook to the penny.

Finally, my favorite comment in this discussion came from Juiceman. Next time I hear a group of men discussing investments, I'll remember what you wrote that most of the men that talk a big game about investing are usually full of shit.

Lobster that truism applies to all men's topics. Not just investing.

LOL. Another "grrrrl power" article by the New York Beta Times.

- "studies show that they may inherently be better investors than men. Females are less prone to risky behavior" BWAHAHA! When I got my finance degree and my CFA, I was always taught that higher risk generally correlated with higher return. So over a statistically valid period of time, wouldn't an investor who takes less risk also realize a lower return? Girls really ARE bad at logic!

Here's another gem: "Women tend to save a slightly higher percentage of their paychecks then men, they ultimately end up with smaller balances because of their lower earnings. "

Ohhhh, I get it: Women DON'T actually do more frivolous shopping then men! They just have less money because of that bad old wage gap! Of course, this doesn't explain why the mall has 90% stores aimed at women, if men shop more. See above comment on logic!

Here's the facts, jack, as un-PC as they may be:

- The little ladies don't LIKE fussing with numbers. They like to spend on little knick-knacks that clutter up the house, but like to ask how much things cost. Finances make girls dizzy. How many of you have been nagged by a wife/girlfriend/ex-wife to sit down and explain the family finances to them...and then when you do, their eyes glaze over and they change the subject?! It's happened to me a dozen times!

- Or how many have you had THIS conversation:

HER: "Honey, look at all this (useless junk) I bought! And it was 15% off!!! I SAVED so much!!
HIM: "I see. And you put it it on your credit card, right? And what's the interest rate on that?
HER: "I dunnnooo"
HIM: "Uh, it says the interest rate is 24%...you just borrowed at 24% to "save" 15%...on a bunch of crap we don't need anyway"

Another variation of the same theme: Where your gal comes home with 100 widgets, because they were on sale ("and I SAVED so MUCH!"). And you point out, "we only use 3 widgets a year...you bought a 33 year supply of widgets. That have an expiration date in six months".

I said it before, I'll say it again: The little ladies don't LIKE numbers. That's one reason they marry providers, so they can get AWAY from all that. So they can shop, and have someone else pay the bills.

NYC said: "what if your daughter joins a polygamous sect or is in a profoundly unequal marriage?"

LOL. Typical feminist. Why is an "unequal" marriage necessarily a bad or unhappy marriage? Truth be told, nearly ALL marriages are unequal marriages: The man is nearly always bigger, stronger, and, in 90% of cases, earns more. I've seen studies that say that even women earning over $200K a year marry up (i.e., marry men who make more).

Lemme guess, NYC: You're not married, are you?

NYC10023 said "Another pet peeve I have is the lack of information most women (and men, but it matters less) have about the financial implications of divorce."

ANOTHER GEM FROM THIS CHICK! Divorce matters LESS for men?? Who do think pays the vast, vast, vast majority of alimony, child support, asset division, etc?? It's MEN! Why do you think men won't get married in this country any more (if they are smart), or if they do they have a pre-nup the size of a phone-book? Because they might profit in divorce? Nope. That's the chicks that profit.

Now, you'll come back with some crap that says "I saw a study that says a women's lifestyle declines 73% in divorce but a man's goes up 47". Did you know that the women who came up with that statistic, Eleanor Weitzman, later was found to have MADE. UP. THE. DATA! But let's pretend for a second it's true, lets explore the logical consequences of that (i know that logic isn't you gals strong point, but try to hang with me here): A guy is married to a gal. They get divorced, and all of a sudden, her lifestyle goes down, his lifestyle goes UP. Now what does THAT imply?? That HE was subsidizing her lifestyle, paying her bills, etc. If HER lifestyle went down, it means she was no longer getting that benefit. And if HIS lifestyle went up after the divorce, it means he was GIVING more than he was GETTING, financially, in that marriage, and now that it is over, he is BETTER OFF. So, all the whining about "oh, the poor dear needs to understand the consequences of divorce" just means marriage is a suckers bet for a guy where he subsidizes the women's shopping habits! (Hopefully, he got some quality tail out of it!).

Dwayne. You've found yourself some real quality women in your lifetime. maybe if you could attract a better quality of woman you'd not be so virulently bitter. After all you can't or shouldn't be bitter without negative experience.

Hint. quit focusing on the cleavage and the stilettos. Both can be expensive signs. I'm sure you have deeper interests in your hos.

nyc10023, you mentioned the financial implications of divorce. The most important financial knowledge that a woman needs to have, is to never commingle her assets, no matter how much she loves the SOB. This is being posted as a public service. And secondarily, teach your daughters how to trade. And then hedge your longs, with a bit of SDS.

"The man is nearly always bigger, stronger, and, in 90% of cases, earns more"

i hear you. the solution to your problem is fairly simple though. you need a partner who is equal to you in everyway - another man. problem solved!

gaongaon: from what I know about marital/divorce law - it doesn't matter if you commingle your assets (even in a non-community prop. state like NY). It only matters if you commingle your inheritance $.

"from what I know about marital/divorce law - it doesn't matter if you commingle your assets (even in a non-community prop. state like NY). It only matters if you commingle your inheritance $. "

You know very little about divorce law.

"the solution to your problem is fairly simple though. you need a partner who is equal to you in everyway - another man. problem solved!"

I don't need another god-like creature in this house. There already is one. Me. Besides, I like women. I think everyone should own two or three...

If you have no faith in that person, why marry him/her? With that said, a pre-nupt for protect inheritance makes sense. Just because my daughter have faith in her choice, doesn't mean I have to feel the same.

I don't need another god-like creature in this house. There already is one. Me. Besides, I like women. I think everyone should own two or three...

i guess that's funny. mine was better though.

nyc10023, inheritance moneys and money from such things as malpractice suits obtained during the marriage are yours. just don't commingle them. nor money with which you entered the marriage. i'm not a lawyer. just don't commingle them or anything that was yours before the marriage. the best and worst of marriages do end.. If you are the one handling the accounts, you might be able to fix it, if hubby is oblivious. Excuse me, while I go and enter some GTC orders. goodnight.

"If you have no faith in that person, why marry him/her?"

Chicks pull this crap all the time. Its so silly. Look at this way: Do you drive? Do you have car insurance? Why - are you expecting to have an accident?? Then why do you need car insurance? Or fire insurance on your home, for that matter? You have them JUST. IN. CASE. And the fact is, you've driven a car thousands of times and have probably had 2-3 accidents in your lfie. You have a car accident around 1% of the times you drive. Well, 50% of marriages crash! But you still think we shouldn't have an "insurance" (i.e., a pre-nup) on that?

Women don't like pre-nups b/c 99% of the time, it's the chick who walks away with money from a marriage. Marriage in this century in just another way for women to climb the socio-economic ladder. They shouldn't even call it marriage, because it bares little resemblance to the institution known for thousands of years as "marriage". We should modern marriage "Marriage 2.0".

"i guess that's funny. mine was better though."

If you think so, that's fine.

Now make me a sandwich, beotch!

Dwayne: "Do you drive? Do you have car insurance? Why - are you expecting to have an accident?? Then why do you need car insurance? Or fire insurance on your home, for that matter?"

I would get car insurance because I don't have faith in every other driver and pedestrian on the street. I would get fire insurance because there are tons of things in the house that can cause a fire and I certainly don't have faith in every wiring, appliance, etc...

I'm not against pre-nups. I'm against living ones life with too much focus on it. Until your spouse show any signs of deception, I don't see a problem with trusting him/her totally. If you are afraid that you might miss the signs, then perhaps you're not communicating enough.

it's too late for a sandwich, you shouldn't eat this late at night. i'll get you some tea and crackers.

"I'm against living ones life with too much focus on it. Until your spouse show any signs of deception, I don't see a problem with trusting him/her totally"

That sounds like a recipe for disaster, whether it relates to marriage or a game of cards.

Hey Dwayne - chicks pull all kinds of crap all the time. Hubby and i actually just hashed it out a bit this morning. I was very fired up and his response was "can't we discuss this rationally"? I kindly reminded that that was a completely unreasonable request of an irrational person. We just want someone who can keep up with us Dwayne (in so very many ways).

i've always assumed that dwayne is mostly joking. that he's really some married guy with, like 3 daughters and his oldest probably paints his toenails pink while he's typing away. if you're serious though, that means that you are attracted to and actively seek out materialistic women who use you. i am reluctant to call them stupid or illogical, since they seem to be succeeding in hussling you for what they want, while you bitch about it on anonymous message boards. this irrational and illogical attraction probably has a lot to do with your mother. i can't know for sure, since i don't know you personally. but a good therapist should have no problem helping you sort things out. best of luck in your quest for inner peace.

gangaon: I'm not disagreeing with you. In my relationship, it is to my advantage to commingle :) In general, assets acquired after marriage (except for inheritance, I don't know about malpractice suits, but it's less common anyway) are marital assets regardless of title. The distribution of such assets in NYC is based on "equitable distribution" - which goes to each partner's contribution to the marital assets. So it's less important, in NY, whose name is on assets acquired after marriage bcs each partner's share get litigated anyway. It is important (in my opinion, even in a happy marriage) to have some liquid funds in individual accounts for ease of access.

" We just want someone who can keep up with us Dwayne (in so very many ways)."

I'll be right over. What time does your husband leave for work?

"I'm against living ones life with too much focus on it. Until your spouse show any signs of deception, I don't see a problem with trusting him/her totally"- said sandra bullock

"I'm not against pre-nups. I'm against living ones life with too much focus on it. Until your spouse show any signs of deception, I don't see a problem with trusting him/her totally. If you are afraid that you might miss the signs, then perhaps you're not communicating enough."

The last sentence is just as important as the one before it.

"I'm not against pre-nups. I'm against living ones life with too much focus on it. Until your spouse show any signs of deception, I don't see a problem with trusting him/her totally. If you are afraid that you might miss the signs, then perhaps you're not communicating enough."

The last sentence is just as important as the one before it."

No amount of communication in the world will make counter the fact that malicious people exist. Anyone over the age of 30 has dealt with hundreds of them, and only a downright fool would go through life pretending otherwise. One would think such stupid genes would have been weeded from the human gene pool by now, in much the same way the genes of any gazelle who thinks "I'm going to wander to that there watering hole, without focusing too much on the lions around me" are regularly purged from the gene pool (by way of the intestinal tract of said carnivore).

Trust and verify.

Communication = verify

Trust <> stupidity

Faith = love = trust = happiness

pre-nups = life insurance; 'get it, and forget it'