Opinions on owning a car in the city?

Not worth it, unless you can deal with alternate side parking rules (aka park for free). I haven't owned a car in Manhattan since I stopped doing the reverse-commute. Zipcar. Or Hertz connect. But book way in advance for summer/spring weekends. And holiday weekends.

NYC10023, what is the advantage of Zipcar compared to a normal car rental? I got a card but I cannot find a car for weekends, unless I book way in advance (as you mention).

As expensive and time-consuming as getting a dog, without any unconditional love. Add in delivery truck drivers approximate steering, parking tickets, strung-out idiots fishing for pennies after breaking your side windows, and there is no way it wouldn't be cheaper to rent a BMW from Zipcar whenever you feel like it.

Depends on the nature of your car use. Mine tends to be <5 hour errands on UUWS/Bk/Qns or NJ. And I've needed a pickup for very bulky items. For shorter errands, it's MUCH quicker to get a zipcar. I target garages where you don't need to call because the cars are all parked in the front (TWC garage, Lincoln Towers garage come to mind).

Hertz connect cars are same. Plus the convenience of late hour dropoff.

My post got truncated - my errands tend to be < 5 hours in NJ/Bk/UUWS/Qns.

Weekend use is my aim. Spur of the moment trips to NJ for a Target run. Occasional road trip. Just have not liked the cars (wonder about safety) from either Hertz (or any other car rental) or Zipcar - new but they still feel grungy (my age has made me a germaphobe) somehow. Figure it may be my one splurge (but how costly is it?)

In my nabe, the closer garages are approx. 400 monthly. Insurance - another 2k+ annually. Plus depreciation. You're looking at min. 19k/year (lowballing depreciation at 12k annually). I like the spur-of-the-mo trips to Target. My suggestion is to block-book Zipcars for 2 months of Saturdays in advance. Cancel if you don't go. Still WAY cheaper than owning. On the other hand, you live once. So, if it's a pure consumption thing, you have my permission to buy :)

Not worth it, easier to rent when you need a car, in my opinion.

Trying to park in most neighborhoods is like another job. Unless you make minimum wage, not worth it. Much mroe cost effective to rent when you need it. Second choice, rent one of those spaces by the intrepid and cab it.

Garages are obviously expensive... but the thing you have to factor in is they aren't painless either most of the time. You might complain that renting a car takes time, but most garages want advance notice in the more crowded neighborhooods (one said 3 hours weekdays). And loading/unloading at your building 'aint that simple either. I've had a garage in my building, and its still not easy given there isn't ton of room to stand next to your car and lift packages out. Perhaps a building with a driveway, but short of that, it 'aint easy.

> lowballing depreciation at 12k annually

If its a knockaround car, buy a $12k car.

Garages don't allow late night drop offs? Thought they did...

Let's throw kids into the mix...

Have kids and want to be able to keep carseats (such a pain to load) in the car - car may become my extra closet :) This is worth $50 a trip, right?

Kids - I use zipcar for my child-free errands. Not a big deal to load and unload carseats when they come with me. I usually pick up the car (5 mins max, as I pick the Zipcar garage with the cars parked in front). Kids with carseats all ready to load. Another 5 mins. I transitioned out of the heavy toddler seats to the booster seats (I use Maxi Cosi Rodis) as soon as kid hits the min. ht & wt. The littlest one is in the lightest car seat I can find (Euro standard, 11 lbs).

The other thing to mention is that I like using a van/SUV for weekend trips with the kids. Those cost more to garage in Manhattan. Try $500+. I've already booked a minivan for the 3 car trips I'm planning (with kids) this summer.

ALso, fueling your car is a pain in the butt since there are so few gas stations in Manahttan.

nyc10023 - kudos...it takes me an hour to get the rental and load carseats and babies (infant and toddler seats - bulky).

Gas...I like to buy in NJ - cheapest

Wife and I finally bought a car last month, after living in manhattan for 8 years. We did it for the reasons you mentioned, that weekend getaway from the city whenever you want, spur of the moment. So far, its been really really nice. Work off stress for nice, short, spur of the moment jaunts outside of the city.

But it's costly. So you can't go into this with any pricing comparisons to a zip car or rental, which we were regular users of.

We pay $475 for parking a month (non SUV size), Geico car insurance for two of us is $1,100 a year.

If you can afford it, and only after you've gotten pretty sic of years of zip cars and the standard rental fleet, then seriously consider it.

Another trick - if zipcar-ing on a 2-day+ trip, it costs no more to start the rental earlier on a Friday evening. I retrieve the car right before the parking window starts on my street (parking only after 7pm). Leisurely load up car with needed items, before setting off on Sat. morning.

It's kinda-like the rent v. buy housing. Not really worth it to buy in many situations, but it IS much more pleasant. As far as cars go, I'm happier renting since I don't care too much about cars and most of my usage consists of kid-free errands during the week. I like hitting Fairway uptown with a 1.5 hour rental late Friday night once monthly to load up on stuff.

I personally would not buy a car in the city. It provides more hassels than convenience. A car is relly meant for the suburbs. If you do buy a car, buy something cheap that you won't have a heart attack when there is a scratch or ding on it.

"Weekend use is my aim. Spur of the moment trips to NJ for a Target run. Occasional road trip."

When I first moved to NYC, I hung onto my car for a whole year for just the above reasons. And, of course, because like most Americans, I couldn't fathom the idea of being an adult without a car.

A year later, I was amazed at how infrequent my need was for "spur of the moment trips to New Jersey" or the "occasional road trip".

With the amount of money you save by not havng a car, you can go to Macys and buy more expensive stuff than driving to Target in NJ.

Garage prices range from $250 to $1000, and I think $400 is typical. Insurance is around $1200 a year for me. Budgeting $12K a year is overkill unless you're buying a $100K+ car. I think depreciation runs about 10% of the car's value per year. All-in, you're looking at $5-10K a year for a "normal" nice car. If the $5K spread makes a difference to you, it's probably not worth it to you. I've had a car always in Manhattan, and I don't recommend you get one unless you have a known weekly use for it. E.g., work-related, visit family, etc.

That being said, I've never had to deal with the hassles of renting in the city...

The good news is you can try it for a year (maybe with a used car) and see if it's worth it to you.

" think depreciation runs about 10% of the car's value per year."

Not necessarily. The first year has the most depreciation. After that, it depreciates at a lower percentage. ALso, if your going to do very little driving and don't know if you are going to keep the car long term, look into leasing. This way your not stuck trying to sell the car.

who gives a f---k, when I just saved $1.5MM for not buying in the bubble... hell, I may get a third car in NYC.... just to tell ppl I pay $1,500/month in garage billz... thatz howz I rolllz... ya lemmings...

Hey prez, how about you put some numbers behind that? That way it'll be more useful to the OP.

The question is how much lower can I buy my C7 in order to justify having a chauffeur for life in nyc? that would be $500K less in my housing cost for me.... I'm thinking a pimped out Odyssey....

we've been doing the NJ thing at least 3 times a month - sadly

it's more the idea of leaving the city for a short while and getting some shopping at the same time...(Prez - not into Macy's)

it runs us about $500 now for rentals per month so i know owning costs a premium but the spread "may" be worth it

no dream car purchase here - just something clean and runs

I owned a car in the early to mid 90s for a few years for personal reasons. Interestingly, my analysis at the time was that the annual cost of owning a garaged car on the UWS of Manhattan was about half the cost of owning a modest Hamptons house. Since then, the cost of a Hamptons house has easily quadrupled; the cost of cars and garages has trended higher; and the cost of city-based auto insurance is lower.

if you have a weekend home it's kinda necessary, and if can afford the garage monthlies, it's TOTALLY worth it. I love being able to get out of dodge at a moment's notice.

If you're spending $6000 a year already, then it'd be a worthwhile purchase. For a few thousand more, you'd get a lot of added convenience, and I'm sure you'll see yourself using the car more once you have it.

On depreciation, I revisited my formula, and I think 12-13% a year, compunded, is about right.

If you can afford it, do it. Time is $, and what a pain in the ass renting, picking up, doing the car seat/dog thing (we have both). Love being able to pick up and leave when we want to, love being able to drive to chinatown to grab chinese on a sunday night, etc.....

I have always owned a car here and it may not make great economic sense...but I love it. I like the ability to take off on the spur of the moment; golf, beach, country, Chinatown or a quick run to Fairway Harlem.

> When I first moved to NYC, I hung onto my car for a whole year for just the above reasons. And, of
> course, because like most Americans, I couldn't fathom the idea of being an adult without a car.
> A year later, I was amazed at how infrequent my need was for "spur of the moment trips to New
> Jersey" or the "occasional road trip".

Totally. I need mine for other reasons, but the "for when I want it" just doesn't happen that often. There is so much to do in this town, weekends fill up so fast, that driving out to a Target just doesn't seem like much of a draw anymore.

> ALso, fueling your car is a pain in the butt since there are so few gas stations in Manahttan.

Alpo, do you go hungry each night because they don't sell groceries in your living room?

i used to use zipcar and i do agree it is very convenient. Ive not had a problem getting one before. That said a couple things that bother me.

1) whenever I jump in the car, I feel like I'm going to catch a disease - i have seen used tissues, empty coffee cups, dog hair, and other weird things in there. It's kind of gross sometimes

2) one time i rented a Volvo with my wife and child and behind the passenger seat - in front of my child, someone had drawn in a picture of a human p-nis - so my kid was staring at it the whole time. pretty lame that someone did that, not zipcar's fault, but want to avoid stuff like that.

3) about 1/2 the time I get into a zipcar, i see a check engine light / wheel light / or something else. makes me feel like the car is unsafe. i know the company probably checks the car, but who knows if there was a problem by the previous renter that was not reported.

4) waiting for zipcar takes forever.. you always come last vs. other monthly customers at my garage and like the person above, time is money.

because of all this, i just bot a car. parking is $300 a month and insurance $1200, so im fine with that to avoid the above hassles.

To me, it all comes down to lifestyle. I agree that $19k a year is overkill - about $10k a year to have a car. $600/month parking + $90 insurance + $400 for a car payment (assuming you buy a used car, which makes a lot of sense). And that's assuming parking in a good neighborhood with a 24 hour garage. It can be had for cheaper - $400 if you're okay with a 24 hour open lot and even less if you don't want 24/7 (although to me this is key).

It's not an economic decision but a convenience one. It's probably cheaper to rent, as even if you go away in the summer, there are stretches of time you don't use the car at all. We store kids carseats in there, husbands golf clubs, etc.

Even in 10+ years of living in NoHo, the West Village, and Tribeca - I never had to give more than an hour's notice to get my car. Sure, they grumble about it, but they get it done.

It comes down to whether the extra $5k is worth the hassle. If you use a car semi regularly, it probably is.

Unless you are a reverse commuter to somewhere inaccessible by public transit, its hard to make an economic case for car ownership. The emotional, convenience and/or pure fun case is another story. Having a car is well towards the top of my "wish list".

I have one but have to admit it doesn't make sense economically. I grew up in the burbs and like the ideahaving a car whenever I need it. I rationalize it by saying, I don't drink much, don't smoke, don't gamble so my wasteful excess is the car. That said, the zip car option makes much more sense financially.

Definately more expensive. I am in the same boat and am considering getting it, just for lifestyle.

Car = $300 per month lease
Garage = $350 per month for walking a few blocks east
Insurance = $100 per month

Total = $750 per month and $9,000 per year

But if you lived in the burbs, you would probably have 2 cars, still need insurance, you'd be commuting into the city and paying tolls plus parking it near your office. So if you look at it that way, your expenses are less than if you lived in the burbs.

Zipcar runs you $350 for the weekend, it can be hard to get cars for the weekend, and the cars generally aren't great. Zipcar is great if all you want is to run errands, but if you plan on going away a lot on weekends, spending weekends in the summer at the beach, etc., owning doesn't seem so bad.

If you don't like zipcars jenny, then rent a car the old fashioned way. The rental compnaies do a very thorough job of cleaning their vheicles after they are returned. Does anyone still rent a car by going to the office to pick it up anymore?

Try Pier 40 for parking. Its cheap and convenient to the Holland Tunnel (if not to where you might live). Just make sure you get a cover for it.

Especially with kids it is 100x easier to own a car. You don't have to shlep car seats, then store them, and have to do it all over again. And you always have the car when you need it - no need to plan 2 months out in the summer for when you might need a car, no worry about getting a car on popular weekends. No lines at the rental counter. No dirty cars (or at least not other peoples dirt). And because it is easier and sunk cost, you'll use it way more often.

Does it make financial sense for someone who uses it 3x a month? Maybe not, but if you go on that measure for everything, you'd never eat out b/c its cheaper to cook yourself. You get something in return for the extra $$ of owning - time and serenity. If you value your time and sanity more than the few thousand bucks, then do it. If not, don't.

We had a car in Manhattan and when we bought a condo in Miami, we left the car there to cut down on some of our monthlies. After a year of zip cars in NY -- the filth jenny describes, the anxiety to get the car back on time, the unavailability on weekends-- we caved. We now take the car to Miami for the winter and bring it back to NY for the summer. We need it for weekend summer getaways in NY. We don't pay for garage in Miami so the cost savings in the winter months is nice since we don't use the car that much in the winter in NY.

When we sell the condo in Miami (few years) I may look into storing the car in an inexpensive garage in NJ for the winter.

I own a car in Manhattan and find that it's not as big of an inconvenience as many assert. If you're a regular Manhattan driver, you learn the parking availability in certain neighborhoods during the day, and when certain blocks 'open up' in the evening. I find it convenient for groceries as Fairway in Harlem has a big parking lot. After packing up the car, I just roll downtown right up to my building, put on the hazard blinkers, and unload with the help of the doormen. On Sunday, I prefer driving almost anywhere at any time of day since the City Council was so nice as to turn off the meters on that day. And of course, getting out of town whenever you want is great.

The biggest problem I've had is that many garage attendants don't know how to drive a stick which has resulted in my car getting dinked, with repairs at garage's expense but it was an inconvenience. Now I'm at a garage where I park it myself and have 24 hr access so that's much better for my car and it also eliminates tipping the attendants. And if you don't live near a garage, then you may want to check with your building super to see if he'll move your car on alternate side days, for a reasonable fee of course. I once lived in a building with several tenants who used this option. I also take notice of some pre-war buildings that have 'driveways' into off-street areas that appear to be originally intended for service deliveries but some tenants now park their cars in these alleys.

My first three years in the city was without a car and I survived. Now that we have a car in the city, we are really paying for freedom and flexibility of transportation whenever we need it. I hated zip car and the car rental companies, could never get a car on weekends unless we planned things weeks in advance. During the summer we felt stranded on the island when everything booked up so fast.

We already owned the car and found garage parking within a few blocks for $250/mo so the additional expense was minimal. Really this is just another one of life's little luxuries. On paper it makes no sense but the piece of mind it brings is well worth it in my book. If you can afford it, do it.

"My suggestion is to block-book Zipcars for 2 months of Saturdays in advance. Cancel if you don't go."

Not a very neighborly suggestion and I were Zipcar would cold users for doing this.

If u own a car, you will leave the city more often & your quality of life will rise. I've been ZipCar-ing for a yr now and while it makes way more financial sense to rent (bc garage parking is $450/month), it's not rewarding & not fun. If you love cars, you should buy one. ZipCars r not always clean, a rip-off if you're late returning, and pretty expensive for weekend getaways. But if all you want to do is goto Target & the mall every once and a while, just rent. But if you goto Hamptons every wknd in summer and then ski trips in winter, AND you LOVE automobiles, buy.

DON'T DO IT - just please trust me and don't. The only situation where it makes sense is if you have a second property that you go to very frequently, and one where you need to have a car once you arrive. Otherwise, you just end up using it less, and less, and the cost of owning it goes up more, and more. Insurance, registration renewals, garage bills, parking tickets, dings, etc. drove me ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!

my apologies for the penis picture...

HDLC where is your lot?

HDLC.. dont' tell chris13, just tell me..

If you love independence and are willing to pay for the luxury, then having a car in the city can be great. No question whatsoever that it doesn't make economic sense, but if you WANT your own car and will actually use it every weekend, then it's worth seriously considering. If you're thinking economics, the math will never work....

> We already owned the car and found garage parking within a few blocks for $250/mo

Outer boroughs?

I agree buy is more likely to make sense outer boroughs (brooklyn to brooklyn tripe are often horrible), but it changes when you're actually i manhattan. Not only is brooklyn cheaper, there is more to do with it (especially without having to jump a bridge).

In manhattan, going by my experiences and what others have noted, it sounds like the real separating factor is kids. I have one, and if I didn't need to have it, I'd get rid of it pretty quickly.

"But if you goto Hamptons every wknd in summer and then ski trips in winter, AND you LOVE automobiles, buy. "

or, yes, the regular vacation place. Kids or the regular trip.

THe "if" stuff, just doesn't seem to be worth it.

It's a bunch of things, not just whether one has kids.

1) Weekend/country/beach place
2) Relatives/friends in the burbs/outer boroughs
3) Whether you do city-centric things on weekends

Thanks for the feedback. Didn't think so many would have an opinion on this...

Based on all, not practical, not economical - but damn fun

> but damn fun

hmmm. don't know if I agree with that. I have the garage, and its been more aggravation than fun.

Also, folks left out a lot of the costs...

$2-3 each time you take the car out
holiday tips...

...and car washes, and touch up paint...you have to balance the practicality and vanity factor. Best plan is to buy a solid car that's 5-6 years old and you'll love. Do what makes you happy, so long as you can afford it and you're prepared for it to be what it is, which everyone comprehensively outlined above.

A four-year lease is a good option also. No repairs to worry about. generally very good deals available but I don't know about current options

don't think you're getting $1200 insurance for a new car on a 4 year lease... you'll need comprehensive...

> Best plan is to buy a solid car that's 5-6 years old and you'll love.

Agreed. Although it still doesn't save on the tipping and the calling ahead and the occasional ticket when you're unloading solo in front of your building.

>you have to balance the practicality and vanity factor

There's no vanity in owning a car (at least, the one I plan on getting)

Got quotes...insurance IS low in NY - so there is something good to be said about this city

No weekend home - which is ironically why I can afford the car (rental or not)...don't want one anyway (now, THAT's a hassle)

"Best plan is to buy a solid car that's 5-6 years old and you'll love."

Best plan is to buy a 3-4 year old ex leased car.

"Outer boroughs?"

Actually swe, in UWS prime. Recently went up $10 for the first time in 2 years. I still don't know how we scored this deal but obviously pretty happy about it.

Lived in the city without a car for 10 years. Always had the option of renting for short trips and weekends, but did get shut out a few times, which sucked. Bought a car about 9 years ago because I needed it for work. I learned the neighborhood...memorized all the parking regulations and found the "secret" streets that always seemed to have open spots. A car in the city on the cheap can be done. That worked for about 4 years...that was when I got addicted to parking in a garage, ($475/mo). I don't tip every time I take the car out, but I tipped the staff $600 at the holidays. Bottom line...it's expensive, but I doubt I would give up the car even if I no longer needed it for work.

I'd probably only do it under my current set of circumstances - in Brooklyn (specifically Williamsburg), with my own private spot in my building's garage, with no attendant/valet/need to tip or call ahead. It's great and incredibly helpful for those Fairway runs or avoiding train hell when going to visit friends/family in New England, Philly, DC, or surrounding areas. If you have to drive in and around crowded/parking-poor areas of Manhattan, the headaches might not be worth it however.

"Actually swe, in UWS prime. Recently went up $10 for the first time in 2 years. I still don't know how we scored this deal but obviously pretty happy about it."

JuiceMan, is it 60s and WEA? Back when I lived on the UWS, there was a garage there that was significantly cheaper than anything else in the neighborhood - was a great find for friends visiting for the weekend. Wonder if they're still in business.

Nope bjw, not there and I won't say where it is, don't want to ruin it!

Can't blame a guy for trying.

"Actually swe, in UWS prime. Recently went up $10 for the first time in 2 years. I still don't know how we scored this deal but obviously pretty happy about it"

Wow, great deal then. Even for up there, which is a little cheaper.

I'm in the 5s unfortunately...

"Got quotes...insurance IS low in NY - so there is something good to be said about this city"

Not with comprehensive unfortunately, which is required for the leases.

"Best plan is to buy a 3-4 year old ex leased car. "

this might be the first time ever I agree with alpine - that's exactly what we did.

More generally, I agree with those who say the non-economic benefits of owning a car are very significant. I also agree that it's hard to make the economic math work, but, I don't think it's as off as people make it sound. Our annual cost is around $8K. I think renting would be around $5-6K. It's a noticeable difference, but not massive in either percentage or dollar terms.

The other two related things I noticed when I didn't own is (1) I didn't make as many trips (short or long) as I could have and (2) I found myself annoyed at the cost and hassle each time. For instance, we go somewhere each Thanksgiving weekend. Renting is offensively expensive that weekend, and even finding a rental is a pain. Still cheaper than owning, I suppose, but I just don't want to be thinking of, and dealing with, a rental each Thanksgiving - I have other things to focus on.

Also agree with whoever made the point about keeping carseats in the car - huge.

Finally, on insurance, if you buy used like I did, you can get very cheap liability only ($500-600/year) or still pretty cheap comprehensive ($1000-1100 / year).

Anyway, overall I agree with the person that said owning a car is a luxury, but a very affordable one, and one of the few I allow myself.

Oh, one other cost that people have left out - repairs and maintenance. Probably my biggest annoyance with owning a car, but still worth it on balance.

for those clean ladies over here, there's a hidden dirt/odor tax that zipcar provides from time to time when the previous driver left the car with trash and not pleasant smell. happened to us twice, not a big deal but not nice either.

There are other intangible benefits to car ownership. For instance, the joy of taking your car to the Iron Triangle to haggle with Peruvian mechanics over radiator repairs in a potholed third world landscape. An incomparable pleasure.

I must admit, I don't miss flat tires but I used to enjoy just calling Avis and having them bring me another. Or swapping cars at a whim. Never having to deal with any maintenance or whatever...

'Oh, one other cost that people have left out - repairs and maintenance. Probably my biggest annoyance with owning a car, but still worth it on balance."

Get a BMW. Got my third in a row. 4 year/50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and FULL maintenance. The only thing Ive paid for in 7 years are tires.

or lease. we leased (no interest) and then bought our audi. we've done slightly worse than truth, with a $750 charge for something other than tires in the last six years. but everything was covered the first four years.

but wellheythere's post was hilarious. i had a friend who insisted that her mechanic insisted (and she insisted was correct) that her subaru should be good for 200000 miles. she probably paid for a couple of years of summer camp for his kid, and of the very expensive variety.

Or get a Maxima, unearthly machines that will still run on molasses instead of oil if you choose.

Hey AR, I've been thinking of leasing an Audi. Where did you get yours, if you don't mind my asking? In the city or outside?

Also, has anyone ever taken over someone else's car lease? Seems like it might be a way to try having a car in Manhattan without commiting to a 3 year or longer ownership period.

drg, we leased in the city. if you are going to do so go to the audi dealer at 46th and park. not zumbach on 12th or whatever. you get much better service (long term, they'll pick up your car and return it from the garage for service etc.).

your car is still delivered via and serviced at zumbach but you have a better experience.

anyone know if monthly garage parking is more expensive if you have a large vehicle (suv/minivan)? thanks.

uws -- Yes, and in prime areas the extra cost can be steep. In my experience, if you already were in the garage for a while, you might get away with no upchange if you changed from a car to SUV. Otherwise, expect a 20-25% premium, maybe more.

aboutready, not sure if it was different when you got yours, but the 46th and park location is not a dealership, it's a showroom, so the whatever you're doing your going to 54th and 11th. Maybe that didn't used to be the case but there are no sales people there, just someone at the front desk to give you information and send you to the west side.

"or lease. we leased (no interest) and then bought our audi. we've done slightly worse than truth, with a $750 charge for something other than tires in the last six years. but everything was covered the first four years."

When you lease, you have to get comprehensive insurance... BIG dollar difference...

> anyone know if monthly garage parking is more expensive if you have a large vehicle (suv/minivan)? thanks.

Yes, mine charges another $100. I've seen some charge $200 more. Fancy cars, I've even seen $300.

seriously, just get a used car that you don't mind getting banged up. the garages all add knicks and bumps NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TIP. That's my 2c.

Where do you get $600/year insurance in the city?! Mine is $1200 and that's a standard 100/300k liability.

Did you lower your liability levels?! One bad accident and 200k gone?

somewhereelse, are you sure comprehensive makes such a big difference? After all, it only needs to cover the value of the car, as opposed to liability, where the depth of the pocket is the limit.

10007, when i got ours there were still salespeople there. your paperwork was taken care of at that location, you picked up the car on the west side.

i guess things have changed.

"seriously, just get a used car that you don't mind getting banged up. the garages all add knicks and bumps NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TIP. That's my 2c"

agreed. and then cheaper insurance.

"somewhereelse, are you sure comprehensive makes such a big difference? After all, it only needs to cover the value of the car, as opposed to liability, where the depth of the pocket is the limit."

absolutely. was 2-3x for me.

(its not just about limits, its about likelihood.... and you can have you car damaged without even driving it... )

Sounds like a job for a hefty deductible.

I can't imagine that Audi's Park Avenue showroom doesn't have salespeople. That a prospective customer would or wouldn't make his way over to gritty 12th Avenue (or even one block away) is a risk that seems contrary to the whole business model of car dealerships. And car salespersons are so much cheaper than Manhattan rents.

Are we talking actual showroom, or just a car on display in a lobby?

> Sounds like a job for a hefty deductible.

Then we can add paying the hefty deductible to the costs list... which you'll have to pay if you lease.

"seriously, just get a used car that you don't mind getting banged up. the garages all add knicks and bumps NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TIP. That's my 2c."

That is guaranteed. Will never buy a brand new car in NY. All my cars have been 1 and a half to 2 years old. With low enough mileage for the warranty to remain active.
I end up paying 60% of what the car is brand new.

I always used to be in the "never brand new" camp, mostly because cars lose so much of their value in the first couple of years. But two things changed my mind:

1. While cars (new or used) cost about the same across the country, NYC car repair labor rates are radically higher, and NYC car repair honesty rates are radically lower, compared with most of the mainland

2. The kind of econo-boxes that I like are bought, new or used, by like-minded cheapskates who all want the 3-year-old car. So they hold their value better than a lux-o-box, which most people want to be shiny and new with the correct current-year tailfin height. So you might as well buy new if you like econo-boxes.

Alan is a freakonomist. Nice work.