Hope Springs Eternal

Let's not forget this part of the article:

"That kind of condo-style detailing would come in handy if the building ever decided to become a condo, which is a possibility, Ms. Tulkoff said. “If people were willing to pay like $3,500 a square foot again,” she said, “we could turn this around right away.”"

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

No wonder they're trying those rents. How's about $750 psf?

if you build it, they will come

The Aire will be the successful of the two. Looks awesome. Should compare very favorably to Grand Tier.

marco: That's RAL's motto.

If it's overpriced -- no they won't.

If you want guaranteed lifetime 50-year employment sign up at either building as
rental agebt with a no-cut, cant fire me until the place is rented up clause.

But . . . but . . . they've got over 400 people on a waiting list !!!!!!!

FLMAOzzzzzzzz.... I'm on the wait list... but let's call it 399 after seeing "their" wish list price... FLMAO...

$3.5K psf.... when you get blown by a girl you don't have to pay for...

no one will ever rent there because the cool guys on streeteasy gave it a big thumbs down....

Jimnutz. You gotz some serious reading comprehension issues. If re is all about location. Well you got alot of apts for sale and rent right next to you. You know lincoln towers, 3 Lincoln, grand millennium, tower 67.... And if the developer spiel is to be believed and based upon $7k 2bdrm, it would makez every single ask price all around that neighborhood an absolute f'king bargain!!!!! Comprendo? I'll chk back in an hour.

Ie, even mr. W67 would be buying instead of renting. FFFFLmao.

When I go to saks fifth avenue, ii see lots of choices for jeans. Some cost 100 dollars, some cost 600 dollars. People actually buy things that cost more than other things because they want them more.

Heh, there's a lot of lemming juice, not just for buyers, W67. I am CONTINUALLY shocked at how much Grand Tier apts go for. I even (full disclosure) tried to rent one for 12k once, but was beaten to the punch because I happened to be away that weekend.

Nyc10023, every one of us felt the sting of not being able to compete in the bubble. Thatz what a bubble is. When ppl make $300k in 6 months buying and flipping $500k condos in Miami, what's $12k/month when you think it'll get you 5 minutes closer to be near the Rushmore so you can score $1mm on the next flip? Don't let being priced out a rental at the peak of th NYC re bubble taint what is 'market' in the current rental mkts. I can see why you'd be okay with owning, if you are using that $12k/ months rentals as a comparables.,,,,,,,, hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder how many ppl out there put 'blinders' on based on past 'pricing'. Fwiw the same grand millennium 2 bdrm we rented way back in 2003 is actually $500/month cheaper now then back then. I guess if I used my 2003 rental pricing the 3 bdrms are priced closer to 23x than current 26x.

Slacks? I'm arguing with someone who includes geritol and depends in their fresh direct order. You are old and therefore irrelevant. Go take your nap

Heh, there's a lot of lemming juice, not just for buyers, W67. I am CONTINUALLY shocked at how much Grand Tier apts go for. I even (full disclosure) tried to rent one for 12k once, but was beaten to the punch because I happened to be away that weekend.

...........................
If you think the Grand Tier is over-priced then you're not looking for an apartment in that product range. The prices are in line with rentals from high end condos, which I suspect you would equally argue over-priced. You cannot compare Grand Tier pricing to Stuy Town.

RSer. I thought that the Grand Tier was over-priced. Obviously not, because the market says so. As for prices being in line with high end condos - have you not been listening. Still cheaper to rent at Grand Tier than to buy equivalent product. W67: there was very little turnover in '05-'09, so not many things came up in the GT. You know my sitch, so I'm not going to say more.

I was comparing Grand Tier rentals to condo rentals, not purchase.

How big was that GT place you looked at, nyc10023, and what year?

RS, I have no idea what you are talking about with these "overpriced" rentals vs. condos. Let's look at the premier unit in everybody's new favorite "overpriced" rental, the barely-2000-sq-ft 20th floor $18K unit:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/647691-rental-200-west-72nd-street-lincoln-square-new-york

Let's look at what I would rent on the condo side if I were looking for something in that price range:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/486478-condo-200-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

A custom-renovated 4600 sq ft 43rd-floor unit with sweeping river views, distant park views, etc. all for $16K. The $2K difference will even pick up the broker fee.

I sometimes wonder about the GT renter too, nyc10023. I've talked to some of these people, and the refusal to pay a broker fee is just too strange. In any case, I will say this now for all to hear.

If you're paying asking rents at The Corner, then you should be buying.

this is exactly the point. the new contruction projects aren't overpriced because people are willing to pay the asking rents to move in there. if anything it will nudge up the rents of other buildings in the area.
i don't know why anyone would pay that much to live near the amsterdam projects, but that is beside the point i guess.
people like w67th only look at the numbers.....they fail to realize that certain buildings, etc have cache and can fetch more

Inonada: you're beginning to part of my dilemma. If one doesn't want to live in Trump (yes, I know w67 thinks it's equivalent) but wants "condo-level" finishes, then one is kinda stuck on the Grand Tier or Millenium condo rentals. For 2brs, no question, cheaper to rent. But 4br+, those rents (actual, not asking) have been astronomical.

Inonada, Those rents are fiction. 1500 two bedroom with water view. apx 6500-7500. 2200 square feeet $10,000 +-

Which rents? The ones at RSB?

Actually, I'll retract that. I didn't realize how large the 200 place was. Appears enormous.

What part of that $16K rent is fiction???

"every one of us felt the sting of not being able to compete in the bubble."

Nope. I walked away when they were holding an open-outcry auction for a place.

"the new contruction projects aren't overpriced because people are willing to pay the asking rents to move in there."

We'll see about that. Real estate seems to be the last business in America where lying to the market isn't considered fraud. LICC is working on that.

I understand your trouble, nyc10023. I think the difference between us is that you're very specific in what you need (family format apt) and what you want (this area, but not that sub-area, but not that block, etc.). My lack of specificity makes things much easier for me.

Real estate seems to be the last business in America where lying to the market isn't considered fraud

You clearly didn't watch the Goldman Sachs hearings..

Inonada: I've lived in 10023 too long.

If one is looking for Rental bargains , it won't be next to Lincoln Center or on prime Upper West Side Broadway. Have you considered Second or 9th Avenue in the high 50's?

Nope,'coz my kids would be going to school with homeless children.

"Actually, I'll retract that. I didn't realize how large the 200 place was. Appears enormous."

Oh, I see. You thought $16K was fantasy-land high, not fanstasy-land low. Yeah, 4600 sq ft is ginormous, and what I really like about it is that it's all windows with river or open or distant park views. Basically, 3/4ths of the floor. At that size, you're often left with a lot of low-light areas.

New construction always comes at a premium price. Columbus Square is priced high, relatively speaking, for it's non-prime location, but even that development seems to attract tenants when incentives are included. There is no doubt a market for high priced product in a big city like New York--because there is always a group of tenants doing well financially. The question is are these buildings overkill for that market.

I'll add to what PMG is saying. A number of the high end properties are rented with an employer paying the rent for a consultant or employee who is not expected to be in NY more than a year or two, or be on their own for housing within that time frame. You also have renters demanding premium amenities who do not expect to be in NY long enough to justify buying or expect that their housing needs will change(kids going to college etc)

"You clearly didn't watch the Goldman Sachs hearings."

I did. Civil fraud charges are made, criminal fraud charges pending.

"New construction always comes at a premium price."

Nope.

Blankfein on the floor of Goldman.

I"'m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! "

The only time you get discounted prices for new construction in NYC is when there is financial hardship to the owners. It happens, but rarely. Somehow I doubt that anyone wants to put Goldman Sachs out of business. Just ask Buffett.

nyc10023
about 1 hour ago
ignore this person
report abuse Nope,'coz my kids would be going to school with homeless children.

i can assure you that if you live on 2nd ave in the east 50's your kids won't be going to school with homeless children. its about as far geographically as you can be in manhattan from public housing.

stevejhx
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse "every one of us felt the sting of not being able to compete in the bubble."

Nope. I walked away when they were holding an open-outcry auction for a place.

"the new contruction projects aren't overpriced because people are willing to pay the asking rents to move in there."

We'll see about that. Real estate seems to be the last business in America where lying to the market isn't considered fraud. LICC is working on that.

HEY ASSHOLE! What is wrong with pricing a product that you own any way you want? This is America, right? How does that constitute fraud?

Somehow I doubt that anyone wants to put Goldman Sachs out of business. Just ask Buffett.

Funny! Buffet is an investor in Goldman. He has an obligation to his shareholders not to talk down their investments(Goldman) , and Buffet is a huge derivative player(not that his track record is perfect).

Nobody said Goldman is going out of business, but they at least as unethical as the rest of Wall Street. The lying and obfuscations at the hearing only touch on part(confusing market making with placement agent responsibilities) and distorting the way the portfolio was chosen(many Synthetic CDO'S are based on a bank's reference portfolio, or a bank puts out CDS to a BWIC process). Goldman was not an honest broker here. They may have also used inside information to short their customers and competitors considering they bid on and evaluate loan packages that become the basis of holdings and place the holdings. There's a great deal about the loan packages that are not disclosed in the prospectuses..

If criminal charges are actually pursued against a financial firm, there is always a risk of failure. Given Goldman's stature in the industry that seems highly unlikely, but you cannot structure your profits like a hedge fund without taking some risk.

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB127266764304384997.html?mod=googlenews_barrons

Not sure how things will turn-out with Goldman. Personally, I see that they've already turned on Fabrice and looking to make him a scape goat. If things appear to be getting worse, Goldman will settle, sacrifice Blankfein and agree to some business practice changes. I don't see the firm failing. The charges while certainly serious don't appear big enough to take down a firm.

Remember this little company call Arthur Andersen? Don't underestimate reputational risk. The US Supreme court reversed Andersen's conviction, but have you met a current Andersen auditor lately?

And this is why Goldman will sacrifice Blankfein before it gets to that. The risk for reputational damage is HUGE. All the experts are pouring over Goldman's testimony. Only now are they beginning to realize their exposure. And to think it all started with a little article by Matt Taibi.

RS, if it was that easy, Andersen would just hang one partner and a lawyer...

Just an opinion, but Arthur Anderson had a much clearer fiduciary role.

RS, I'm not saying Goldman will suffer the same ultimate fate; I'm just saying it's not something they can easily fix by sacrificing a couple of people.

Not entirely clear, but the longer this goes on the more true your statement.

As a minimum, it's a great opportunity for its competitors to get talent and clients from them.

There's a huge incentive not to do business with Goldman right now. You face increased risk that your emails will be read by the government and the perception that Goldman games it's clients makes dealing with them very different than going with IBM(the safe choice). This is a huge opportunity for boutique firms to steak clients. Truth is there are many things a small firm can do just as well as a big firm.

real estate real estate real estate

i am sure there are places you can talk about goldman sachs, it doesnt have any place here

so Goldman/wall st has no effect on real estate? The Goldman trouble is not related to re?

Michael Lewis makes the case that Synthetic C.D.O. demand distorted pricing for "shitty" mortgages from 2005-2007 beyond what had existed before that and greatly increased the risk of the mortgage crisis...Kinda like a multiplier effect

Goldman needs to go. Let's get this blankfuck's logic. He states their counterparties are sophisticated investors and derivatives allows institutions to trade away credit risk as they see fit. So it begs the question, why even have a credit committee, why even have bank regulators? Blankfuck, jut show the auditors your credit default swap with AIG stating you are credit risk neutral? Oh and the sophisticated counterparty to AIG was??????? Thatz right Goldman, and they should have taken their lumps just like te euro banks.

John Dillinger had the same excuse - banks are sophisticated.

The word sophisticated is a legal term not a measure of an institution's prowess. The German banks bough AAA from Goldman because they had to and really did believe in what Moodys and S&P were selling. Someone forgot to tell the Germans that Moody's executives were monetizing their ratings role.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b5e80a10-5633-11df-b835-00144feab49a.html

Goldman Sachs is planning to change some of its practices in dealing with institutional clients, a step that could help it settle charges filed last month by US securities regulators.

The internal policy revisions come as the US Securities and Exchange Commission steps up demands for corporate governance changes as part of any negotiated settlement.

While talks are not under way to resolve the SEC’s allegations that Goldman misled investors during the financial crisis over the sale of mortgage-backed securities, people familiar with each side of the dispute concede a settlement would be in the best interests of both parties.

A former top SEC official said the regulator needed to demonstrate there had been real change, while the bank needed to put the uncertainty behind it.

Riversider--very interesting comment you made about the German banks being required to buy AAA securities. Do you have any more specific info regarding this? I think the SEC's case against Goldman would be much more solid if the German bank executives or ABN AMRO executives came forward and admitted they would not have bought this stuff if they had understood how it was put together.

A lot of the pensions/banks are only allowed to buy higher credit rated debt. It's industry standard.

flmao

omfg

you say flmao
I say flamao
you say omfg
I say omg
flmao
omg
flmao
omg
let's call the whole thing off

you misspelled flamao

tomato
tomatoe

NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report) - In what is looming as another public relations predicament for Goldman Sachs, the banking giant admitted today that it made "a substantial financial bet against the Gulf of Mexico" one day before the sinking of an oil rig in that body of water.

The new revelations came to light after government investigators turned up new emails from Goldman employee Fabrice "Fabulous Fab" Tourre in which he bragged to a girlfriend that the firm was taking a "big short" position on the Gulf.

"One oil rig goes down and we're going to be rolling in dough," Mr. Tourre wrote in one email. "Suck it, fishies and birdies!"

The news about Goldman's bet against the Gulf comes on the heels of embarrassing revelations that the firm had taken a short position on Lindsay Lohan's acting career. More here.

these places will be empty for a long time

200W72 is a good example of the cost of building in prime Manhattan.

The reported cost is $200,000,000, which jibes with the mortgage docs.

Gross square feet is something like 240,000, of which 158,000 is the residential portion, including hallways, lobby, etc.

I don't how the math works out, but looks as if they have to get those rents and still make a few bucks.

Judging by shades, curtains, lights on, etc., a good chunk of the apartments have been rented.

Bankruptcy courts are pretty busy recently.

"Judging by shades, curtains, lights on, etc., a good chunk of the apartments have been rented."

LOL, I guess you don't know that trick out of the RE 101 handbook.

That came to mind, but I dismissed the possibility. Probably just because I'd be too lazy to orchestrate such a facade myself.

Nope, it's all in the news (for those willing to look for it):

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/banks-still-tight-with-credit-fed-survey-says-2010-05-03-141500

Still virtually impossible to get a loan, banks are making money by buying treasuries and trading - might that be where the stock market is coming from? - consumer spending is up but incomes are not (meaning what spending is happening is on credit cards), unemployment remains at around 10%, banks are about to be re-regulated, builders are up based on an expired tax credit....

The only good part of it is my mortgage just readjusted downward by $300 a month for the next year. Every cloud....

"That came to mind, but I dismissed the possibility. Probably just because I'd be too lazy to orchestrate such a facade myself."

I seem to recall someone living nearby the Rushmore having posted that they noticed lights came on only in the some set of apartments only at certain times like clockwork.

Hey for $200 million, I would be happy to have some shades installed and maybe throw in some lamps and timers.

But would you paint the walls aubergine to really go full on with the scheme?

I was noticing this in a very high end new development the other day -- several odd lights were on, but everyone's walls were still white.