Battery Park Citiy & PILOT

All the buildings in Battery Park City are on a land lease... typically this doesn't have an effect on borrowing since they are very long-term leases. Also, the apartments tend to be less expensive per sq. ft. but the maintenance fees are very high to make up for it. Not sure what the ratio of maint. per sq. ft. is for the place that you are looking at, but I saw some buildings down there where it takes a very long time to sell an apartment where maint. is too high. Hope that helps!

We were also interested to buy in BPC. However after doing research, we did not pursue the purchase. Our mortgage broker informed us that when mortgsge money becomes tight, land lease properties are the last to receive mortgage money. Also, according to our real estate broker, BPC properties take longer to sell. We decided to skip the potential future problems and puchase in Tribeca

P.S. There is also an additional "Security Deposit" that BPC purchasers must come up with. You get the money back when you sell, but this money is tied up until you sell. Check with your real estate attorney. It is a "Security Deposit" to BPC. Our attorney was the only person to tell us about this added expense.

Also for those of you who believe in global warming -- and it seems that only recalcitrant troglodytes still have the courage to still express skepticism -- remember that Battery Park City is not land at all, but just land fill from the 1970 excavation of the World Trade Center site. So if sea levels rise within the next 10 years as the New York Times constantly reminds us they will, then there will not be any land in Battery Park City left to lease. Another thing to remember is that Battery Park City has incredibly fast wind tunnels which will only get worse as the Goldman Sachs tower and the other high rise development sites are filled in by 2010.

#13--Basing purchasing decisions on fear of sea levels rising within the next 10 years is pretty ridiculous. If you dislike BPC, as many do, just say it. Might as well put off buying in NYC altogether because there may be another Hurricane Gloria.

I rented in BPC for years and must say that I found it very isolated. The upside is the waterfront parks but unless you are woking downtown - it makes little sense. I disagree with the above poster - I think the sea level point is a very good one to consider. I can also vouch for the wind tunnels - they are brutal in the winter.

The "tight money" mortgage issue is a red herring. I have worked in the mortgage business and the only sense that mortgage money becomes "tight" is that periodically (typically at the tail end of a housing boom like in 1991 or now) Fannie Mae forces the banks to be more diligent about credit risk in terms of realistic property appraisals and borrower ability to repay the loan. This would only impact high risk borrowers who are using no-doc/low-doc loans to get in over their head, or unscrupulous property flippers who are engaging in a type of pyramid scheme to buy properties and re-sell them at inflated prices to cohorts who ultimately default on the loan.
Of course if the general terms of the land lease itself posed risk, that would be an issue that would scare off lenders even in the best of times. But that is not the case with BPC, since the BPC Authority is a quasi-governmental agency that can be expected to be very stable for the distant future.

The "Liberty" buildings - Liberty Court, Liberty View, Liberty Terrace tend to have the most reasonable pilot charges and maintenance and also are considered to be the best managed buildings in the established southern part of BPC (excluding the new development condominiums.) The prices are correspondingly higher than the surrounding buildings. 280 and 300 rector and 2 and 21 south end are low rise buildings that have higher maintenance and pilot charges and this is reflected in the (generally) lower prices psf.
The pilot (payment in lieu of taxes) charge is deductible to the same extent as ordinary property tax.

People who haven't lived in BPC in the past couple years probably shouldn't comment on the lifestyle here (i.e., isolated, nothing to do, etc.) since it has changed dramatically and will continue to do so with the Freedom Tower construction and the overall Renaissance of the Financial District. I have a friend who just came to visit and hadn't been down here in 5 years and the first thing she said was, "Wow! This place as changed a lot! There is do much more going on."

but "isolated" is relative. I did look at an apt in bpc and i have to agree that it does feel somewhat isolated. Even 20 West felt kind of out there. I find anything west of west street is pretty isolated. But some people like that so that is about life style choices. My main deterrent with bpc were the
high monthly and cc charges.

i personally think its one of the nicest ''neighborhhods' [if you can call it that] as far as quality of life is concerned. i have lived here for 19 years , and yes its changed a lot since. there are trees , clean air coming off the water , clean and pretty much crime free streets. and everything is 5 mins cab ride away [ tribeca gourmet restaurants , greenwich village shopping etc.] i have lived in nyc for 35 years and 10 were spent in soho , and 8 in tribeca on duane street . i am not a big fan of grime and garbage bags spilling on streets , so to me its ideal . but , i know its not for everyone,just its my personal taste, as a lot of people find it too isolated and missing '' charm''
now for the purpose of this thread was the pilot charges , yes they are excessive, but price per square foot is relativly lower . is it a good investment ? depends on the $ value you put on living next to manicured parks , low crime , etc,. one would pay extra to be next to central park, why is is this any different ?
the two new developments at riverhouse and visionaire are quite nice , not particularly inexpensive , by any standards, and the whollop of pilot in the next ten years or so will be painful . the liberty buildings are pretty decent as far as monthlys go , but tend to be quite dated looking. low ceilings , smallish rooms . the millinium towers is also quite nice . not getting much play , because of the new contruction competition.

Revisiting Battery Park City

The "nice" green buildings on the BPC/Tribeca line have been condo'd -- I put a client in Tribeca Green and she's very happy.

ali r.
{upstairs realty}

Funny to see those old posts about "new developments at riverhouse and visionaire," now two decades old

So how was ownership at Riverhouse or Visionaire for a two decade owner?

The broker description of an apartment for sale in BPC right now says it is “sun flooded.” Don’t know if I’d use that word down there.

I run in BPC usually couple times a week and it seems pleasant enough but it does feel a little isolated as well. I can imagine having a water view would be nice. We considered buying a condo there a couple years ago but we’re turned off by the high maintenance fees. Also aren’t alot of the building land lease? But I was surprised to see two Whole Foods in/around BPC so it can’t be too bad

Attended a party on a rainy windswept night in 1983 at Gateway Plaza. The first, and at the time only, apartment building in BPC. What a desolate windswept place it was back then with just the one building and a lot of landfill surrounding it. It’s come a long way, although the wind remains the same.

BPC are all land leases but not all land leases are alike. The master lease has a nearly 100 year term and the fee owner is the city. I don't think the monthlies are unusually high, but can't say I have ever lived or looked there. BPC draws an unique clientele, that is predominantly families. There is an ongoing sea hardening going on that just finished a pretty well done renovation of Wagner Park, and is moving north. BPC shoreline and Brookfield Place will be a major work zone for some time, but thereafter better insulated from flooding.