The Livmor

I also noticed that and asked the on-site broker (Dawn) when we visited the unit. She later checked the offering plan, which states the F line is 1802 sq ft. Originally, the website also stated the unit was 1496 sq ft, but they seem to have corrected that in the meantime.

Is the parking for sale or for rent?

rent, about 30 spaces.

Their website says there are 70 spaces. By the way, has anyone visited the building? I have been looking for an apartment since 2007 and have not been able to find a large enough space that we can afford (i.e. at least 1100 sq ft). I like the large layouts of some of the Livmor units (though some are downright bizarre in my opinion), but I don't know whether I can trust new construction. Has anyone visited this place who can comment of the quality of the finishes and workmanship? I have never written on these boards before this thread, so please be nice (this whole RE hunt is stressful enough as it is). Thanks.

Yes, msmbrk. I've been there. The spaces are not bad, though the lower floors facing FDB are loud and views, far from scenic. The quality of the finishes are average; nothing spectacular. The upper floors have nice views and some have large terraces, but the prices are too steep, in my opinion, for the area. Also, there will be a church in the building. How that translates to the quality of life in the building is up in the air. It could be a positive or a negative. I just don't know, but either way, right now that makes it a risk.

The Livmor? That's the name?? Stop. Please.

The church thing is a bit strange. Who wants to put up with church goers all over the building and sidewalks every Sunday. The parking should be for sale, strange building.

I have been surprised at the prices people are willing to pay given the current state of the world and Harlem being very rough around the edges.

I was told that the church will be next door, and not actually in the building. In any case, we made an offer on a 3BR. They rejected our first offer (not countered, just flat out rejected as if they were offended) and never even responded to our second, so it seems that they, too, are standing by their prices. Technically, the price per square foot for the 3 BRs does not seem bad, but then you go and see those apartments and have to question just how they measured it to come up with those numbers. No walls could possibly be that thick that even measuring them from the outside could give you those numbers. I guess it's back to the drawing board for us.

Let them wait for the suckers to pay their prices, msmbrk. I was walking past the Livmor the other day. It's a dirty, loud, not very visually appealing corner by any means. Which is fine, but not for the prices they are asking.

This building seems to be selling well versus some of the other buildings in the vicinity. Does anyone have any insight as to its appeal compared to all of the other new condos in area which are not selling quite as briskly?

The prices are lower than the others. Simple as that.

We looked at several buildings in the area, and the reason we ended up making a (failed) offer for the Livmor was partly because the prices were lower but mostly because you get a lot more space. Most of the buildings we saw had tiny living rooms, which is not great for families. The Livmor was the only place with good square footage and large living rooms. The living rooms we saw at the Soha 118, while they seemed to have better finishes, has really small living rooms. We only looked at the floor plans for the Douglass, but noticed the same thing there.

The Livmor is selling very fast because it has large spaces at very good quality for very fair Manhattan prices. I brought a professional inspector who assured me that the quality of the construction that he could see from our visit was about as good as it gets. The floors are gorgeous; the kitchens and appliances beautiful; the bathrooms large and well styled; and it is Energy Star so there is good savings and marketability in their systems. It also has a wonderful kids roon with attached workout area, a yoga studio, and a really nice screening room plus party area. Compared to several nearby condos, which are certainly nice, this building shines.

If the quality is really that high- then the developer should have no problem working with your attorney at having a certain percentage held in escrow for a period after closing to ensure the quality is as good as they state (i.e. perhaps 5% of sales price held for 2 years pending any significant construction problems within the building or unit).

I have no personal knowledge of the construction quality of the Livmore, but most new construction is built poorly- even from reputable developers.

Semerun, while that is not happening the developer does provide a one year warranty on the apt.s. This, according to my lawyer who arranged several contracts in other buildings in the neighborhood, is unusual. I do not know if it really is.

How enforceable is this warranty without needing to pursue an expensive, time consuming lawsuit? A one year warranty might be long enough to discover the most obvious problems- but it might take two or three years before some problems come to the surface.

You obviously must have pretty bad experiences with new constructions and you may be very well right here as well, and as with any warranty this one could get ugly too when and if it comes to that it must be enforced. However, it is still better than nothing. The only alternative is not to buy anything at all assuming that all is crap, but I guess most people are on SE because they decided to buy something and are looking around.

While I do in fact have serious construction flaws in my building- we are hardly a unique situation. There are large numbers of new buildings that were built poorly throughout the city. In prior Livmore threads- there was someone that claimed to have a friend (that had significant construction knowledge) that looked at the Livmore with him. Long story short- they said the Livmore had serious construction flaws. This is an anonmyous blog- so I have no idea of it's true or not. I am just saying- be cautious. If you like the place- put a bid on it. If I had to do it over again- I would...with the only change being that I would require some funds be withheld in escrow pending a construction quality review period. If the construction quality is as good as they claim- they get the money in full (maybe losing a little bit in interest differentials) a bit later. I say let them put their money where their mouths are.

semerun, I understand that you are in a fairly small building, right?

Not to take construction quality issues lightly, but realize that the financial risk of a leaky roof is greater in a 12-unit building than in a 72-unit building. I'm an owner in the Parc Vendome, which is a condo conversion from 1930, back when they really knew how to build them, and the building has had some leaks due to its age -- but I'm one of only 570 or so owners, so the risk is pretty spread out.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Front porch- yes, you are correct that I am in a small building. I also take your point about a 12 unit building and a 72 unit building and risk being spread out. However in our case, I wish we only had a leaky roof. We are currently in process of identifying and rectifying all of the construction problems...but it's clear we should have never received our certificate of occupancy. Someone at DOB had to be paid off because some of the issues we identified after the fact are so blatant even a half-assed job done by a DOB inspector should have caught them.

If you were to apply our type of problems to a 72 unit building- it could still easily amount to an assessment equal to a few percent of the original purchase price (assuming you can't get the sponsor to pay for the fixes).

Like I said- I would still buy my apartment had I known the building required such significant fixes within the first few years...I just would have negotiated a bit differently.

I don't see the harm in suggesting others do so to account for potential construction defects. If the developer did their job right- it should be an easy concession since it shouldn't cost them much. If they did their job poorly- I would imagine they would fight this type of amendment. In that case, you can accept their terms (risk and all), negotiate a lower price to account for the risk, or walk away. In any case- Isn't it worth it to try?

Am I naive to believe this would be a reasonable request to add into the contract? The developer can feel free to say no...but saying no also has consequences.

I had a professional who works in the condo industry inspect Livmor with me and he was impressed, saying the construction was very well done. Given prices that are less than half elsewhere in Manhattan, if you want to live in Manhattan and have beautiful quality space, this is an excellent choice.

Depends on the apartment, HCondoMan. Low floors facing FDB will be loud and not very sightly. Higher floors are better. Also the wild card will be the church in the building. Will that be good or bad? No one knows.

Are people happy with this building? How is it living with the church inside? Really wish the parking was for sale.

I moved in last month. so far we are happy. In terms of the building itself, doormen are great and the super is responsive. I will say that i am on the 5th floor and you really hear people outside. part of it is we have our kitchen window open, but it seems that the area comes alive until about 2am. mostly have tuned it out so not really a problem. I like the convenience of the subway. They created an exit on the FDB so you are literally steps from the entrance.

Parking works out fine even if you could not buy it.

In terms of the church, not finished yet so really can not anwer what it will be like. However the 3rd floor common roofdeck is above the church, so only a few apartments actually get effected. the entrance to the church is on FDB and since it is closer to the subway i assume any gathering before after would be closer to 116th. Not sure what the completion date is.

I assume you are on the 5th floor facing FDB?

Yes facing FDB. Also you feel slight vibrations from the subway, or it could be once again i hear it from the open window. None of these things would have effected my decision to buy here.

i thought the building had a good vibe. the only problem for me was ppsf and the fact that they had these huge heaters/ac units on the walls. they were about 5 x 4 really screwed up the aesthetics. personally i looked at 7 developments in harlem - i liked the fitzgerald best

its funny because the physical size of the heaters/ac are a lot smaller then the cases. you could do something to fix that if you really wanted to. I actually felt the ppsf was not bad as compared to the other developments for what you are getting. Also the layouts were much better.

I would say that i wish you had the opportunity to have the storage space and buy your parking spot as you could at the douglass.

But to me it was the layout of the apartment that won me over in going with The Livmor.

I bought in the Livmor as well and so far am very happy. The A/C units bugged me too (and really bothered my husband), but I ended up working with the developer's contractor and came up with a design that integrated the window sill and the unit into a pretty elegant storage/cabinet unit. I thought that it was great that they would go out of their way to think about this with me. And yes, I paid for the work but the price was very reasonable and the quality of the work quite good. Now if they can get more than four pieces of equipment for the gym . . .

I think it is five, and my issue was not only that there could have been more, it was all pretty much base models. But that really is an issue for later. My daughter loves the children's playroom and i know a number of other kids who play in there as well.

We actually were thinking of doing with the AC units exactly what you did, but decided to hold off for now as we were doing other things that took priority.

Thanks for all of your input, we were going to look at 5D in the livmor but were concerned about the noise. We like the douglass for the parking and storage but the living areas were small and not properly designed in the B line and the C line is right on FDB.

I like the D line, just decided did not want a duplex. I would think that all the buildings around here would be noisy. also depends what your threshold for noise is.

We looked at it. The noise and the somewhat cheap construction steered us away.

MS123 - Are you looking for a three bedroom? They are combining some units on the upper floors that you might want to see. I am on 9th floor and don't hear noise from the living room (facing FDB), but this floor is just above the building set back. My bedroom windows (facing west) are open and I can hear noise from the west and the side streets. I could hear noise from my old apartment on West 73rd Street though, so it seems normal to me.

Right you are set back slightly from the street. However I lived in Lincoln towers on the 20th floor years ago and could hear the bus kneeling sound every day and the sounds of the west side highway prior to all the buildings going up. To me this is normal noise that even if heard in the beginning is background noise over time.

My bedroom is on 115th, so a little quieter, daughters is on FDB side. But she has always had a sound machine, so you hear nothing but that.

I know they are combining some of the apartments and have not seen. but a lot of the reason they are doing it is layout issues. Some of those apartments were not designed well.

MS123 Mostly all the building on FDB will a little bit noisy (at least those I have visited in normal hours), however not noisier than other areas with similar traffic in New York. If you want to see what noise is, get an apartment on 14st for example. You can still look at some condos on side street like the Fitzgerald, 88 Morningside that might also meet you criteria, etc. I must say i was impressed by the 3 bedroom at 88 morningside, on the small side but nice.

Yes looking for 3 bed. Do you know what they are combining? I will have to contact them about that. I am on the 23rd floor in midtown now and yes we hear noise anytime windows are open. Were looking to get away from that a bit.

Ms, I would look at SoHa 118 as well if I were you -- also on FDB but fairly good window technology.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

They are creating a duplex on the 9th/10th floors. Has a nice terrace, but on the FDB side like mine (Good sun and views but street noise on the terrace).

I would think the noise is not as bad as midtown. Also at some point if i understand correctly the car service company has to move as the building supposedly was sold. Will believe when i see as the mosque that is there was supposed to move to manhattan avenue as they were buying building over there, howerver i saw that the deal fell through. A lot of the noise is related to the car service and once gone i think the noise will go down, as well as when the mosque moves.

Ali i think in terms of actual space that the 3br apartments in livmor are more spacious then Soha 118.

The light you get from FDB though is great.

Yes midtown is a bit noisy, but very convient b/c you can get up and downtwon quickly. Soha 118 is starting to get to far North and away from the park.

its funny because at first i wanted to be at 125 for the express until i realized that the local is not that bad. i hop on the subway and get to my daughters school at 84th and columbus in 15 minutes with her slow walking, probably could be done in 10 with knowing about when the subway shows up in the morning.

Any interest on commenting on the pricing of 8H? I say..470K?

5H closed for $500k, 6H closed for $508k. I say it closes at $525k or above.

Any update on when the abatement goes into effect?