Jimmy Carter?

For the past Century the economy has performed better under democratic presidents than Republican.

3 mile Island

Clinton won all the wars he faught

Democrats left surpluses - Republicans trashed them. Reagan created deficits.

Reagan created the debt, Bush added to it, Clinton paid it down, Bush made it exponential.

Thank god for healthcare

LIC which of your list are crimes? Watergate,Iran Contra, Outing a CIA Agent....

LIC your record is great 2000 - 2008 enough said.......the Great Depletion and Ruination of America

Lic...
So ebitda is or is not a key metric for substantial businesses?

By the way, how's that circumcision working out for you?

cc So once again we are waiting.

yes, finallyjoy, we are indeed waiting. for you to say something, anything, that is intelligent and intelligible.

9 minutes ago
stop ignoring this person
report abuse
Lic...
So ebitda is or is not a key metric for substantial businesses?

By the way, how's that circumcision working out for you? CC What a loser.

Crimes by a Dem president?- committing perjury in a Federal court case, whitewater . . .

whitewater: a penny ante real estate fraud case, where >30mm was spent to find no dirt on the clintons

prejury in a federal court case: he lied about cheating on his wife in a court of law---wtf was this doing in a court of law?

let's talk about something of consequence like vince foster

E B I T D A are taxes part of this valuation metric??

And, lic, while you're at it: don't forget, we're all waiting to hear about the circumcision. Everything OK?

This is the thing: bush and co. were nightmarish. They were/are stupid idiots, one a retard, bumbling around. Although they did not have and anti-American ideology.
Now, how much miledge the current administration is going to get out of it? The whole term?
Obama was elected in hope of reversing the damage done by them.
I hate to say it but Obama just is not big enough. And the ideology thing seems to be prevalent in this administration, either out of incompetence or ... I'm frightened to think about it.

Maybe no one is and maybe we're all screwed. But, I take comfort in the power of intellect and it is clear that Pres Obama has it. All things being equal, fat better to have someone with brains.

columbia, correct. Let's just hope that the intellect doesn't get trumped by overestimating itself. The history is, sadly, full of examples.

I completely agree. I wish that more people could understand that his win would be our win. Watch the reaction to that!

Using that intellect to push a dangerous, un-American ideology can be terribly harmful. I'm sure Greece had some intellectual people in charge . . .

You, of all people, are in no position to opine on intellect.

How are you doing with your language problem?

Everyone who believes that Obama can do no wrong — raise your hand.

We would like to plug the leak in the Gulf, but we are too bsuy having sex with employees at the Minerals Management Service and snorting Meth off of toasters with them.

Sincerely,

Big Oil

"Massive deficits (D)
Massive debt (D)
Socialist health care (D)"

So Bush 43 and Mitt Romney are Democrats? Because that is what you just said..

I don't really have a side on this, the original post doesn't really belong here, entertaining as this becomes.
Nevertheless, let me add my knowledge to a small portion of this discussion:
Businesses are "valued" based on a present value discounting of risk adjusted estimated future cash flows available to the full capital structure. That's a mouthful, so certain parameters are assumed and multiples are used instead. Such as for the weighting of the equity portion of a business, P/E is the most commonly used proxy. For the full enterprise value of a business (i.e. the equity and the debt) EBITDA multiples are used.
If taxes were to go up, EBITDA multiples used for "valuing" a business would decline.

Alternatively put, Company A is worth the sum of a stream of future payments that have been discounted. Call that 5+6+7+8+9+10... and we all know that payments in a really long time aren't "worth" all that much today, so lets say that after the 6 years of payments, all of that boils down to 20 (doing shorthand here). So we've got a total "value" of 65. Today that company is making 7 of EBITDA (not so far off from the first payment of 5 which is after taxes of around 29% for illustrative purposes). So the EBITDA multiple is 65 / 7 = 9.3.
If the EBITDA today of 7 is now taxed at 39% instead of 29%, that 5 cash flow upfront is instead 4.25. And so just dragging that forward per the above, we've got 4.25, 5.125, 6, 6.8, 7.7, 8.5 and the terminal of 17. So the total "value" with these higher taxes is now 55.5 instead of 65. And the EBITDA multiple is 55.5 / 7 = 7.9.
Then when people are "valuing" based on EBITDA multiples, they'll adjust the EBITDA multiples they are willing to pay for an asset or a company.

That is how taxes reduce value. There is a pie, and the more that the goverment taxes, the less that is available to the owners of the rest of the cash flow of the company. (this is ignoring the potential for some multiplier effect like the government being able to support the growth of the economy, and similarly assuming that there is no dampener effect that companies now have a reduced ability to support the growth of the economy).

Are you a private equate investor?

Proven wrong again cc.

Really? What's the proof, Julia?

Everyone who believes that Obama can do no wrong — raise your hand.

No one is suggesting that.

Everyone who believes that juliang would be better than president Obama, please raise your hand.

The leader of the regime will not run for a second term. He will leave to "spend more time with his family". Lets just hope the damage can be contained.

Ah, Julia has finished feeding. God help us.

Interesting how a president who has an entire cabinet full of former Clinton people is most being compared to Carter.....

Oh no...here too?

Although, he really likes the entertainment and the kobe beef.

Juliang

Love these threads....

You got chocolate in my peanut butter!
No you got peanut butter in my chocolate!

And there you have it. America summed up in delicious unhealthy treat that fairs poorly under adverse conditions such as heat.
Ever put a Resses peanut butter cup in your pocket? (that's only 98.6 degrees)

Julialrg, I know facts are horrible things but you might want to take a looksee at the article I linked to. then again maybe you don't as it doesn't support your assinine regime theory. grow a brain, would you?

rs I'm really not seeing any widespread comparisons to Carter. maybe you're hearing the voices in your head again?

s I'm really not seeing any widespread comparisons to Carter.

Stop reading Katzenjammer Kids

When was the last time you left your apt?

Overpaying like he did he feels compelled to stay inside and enjoy it every possible moment. as he pours over zerohedge for conspiracy theories and is thoughtfully intrigued by Rand and her alternative lifestyle.

I mostly see Obama compared to a President who took over after 8 years of the biggest shitshow this country has ever seen, and is not seriously expected by anybody to turn that around in only 8 years, because nobody can.

The good news is that he got National Health Part One through congress, and with a few major tweaks and additions we'll have the single-payer healthcare system that we deserve.

I see Obama as a President who was noticed and then selected as electable. He got elected mostly for who he was not(George W Bush) as opposed to who he was(a left leaning socialist from Chicago).

He campaigned that he would be different, but so far it is politics as usual. He's very much on the left and his inexperience in Foreign policy shows.

I was more hopeful a year ago....I expected more.

What did you expect that he didn't do?

Let's see...he said he was for health care reform..

That is hilarious. I would love a left-leaning president. I think he is very centrist with a definite nod to the Chicago boys. but of course that doesn't suit the agenda of either party so it's hardly mentioned.

health care reform was meant as a cost-saving measure, pure and simple. as alan says hopefully they'll be able to tweak it long term to provide what we need. but most of the health care bill doesn't take effect for years, as I understand it. often history judges presidents looking back.

Bush- tax cuts and promise all the benefits years in the future
Obama-promise savings and promise all he benefits years in the future

Who knew how similar they were...

Again, trying to rely on your own analysis. Sad

The effects of bush are obvious. I guess you think all efforts to reign in health care costs and provide care to as many people as possible isn't a worthy goal? Oh yeah you're one of the crackpots who thinks tort reform could do the trick after tort reform has already happened.

obama claimed cost savings but really wanted increased coverage. If society wants to extend health care as a right so be it, but Obama , Pelosi and Reid should not have sold it under false pretense. Everyone knows it will cost far more than planned. And Europe is a clear warning of what excessive debt and high taxes can bring......

The leader ot regime's poker buddy described him best. A socialist with other people's money. He really is a pathetically unaccomplished guy. His Nobel, a perfect tribute to him. Nothing earned just given.

You guys are all a bunch of blowhards. My favorite of course is the Robert Kiyosaki jerk who I have to unhide each time to read. Asking one guy if he ever leaves his apartment but if you look at the timestamps here, more than 5 hours ago he was here and still here on a great summer afternoon. You guys deserve each other. Obama, Bush, no Carter, Nixon, no Hamilton, Jefferson. Like one single one of you has any impact on anything. Get yourself on Rachel Maddow show or Bill O'Reilly and show us that anyone cares about your opinion. Or get a job. Or a hobby.

blowhards

That's bullshit and you know it. the bill was hindered by many things.

Health care isn't the thing killing countries. Other than ours.

Back in the day when bc/bs was public it provided great coverage at low costs. who took over the medical insurance companies when glass steagall was repealed?

Blah Blah Blah

Blowhard

good one finalljoy

Blah Blah Blah

bslokin. Talk about a wasteful life. Maddow, O'Reilly. Now watching that crap, that is pathetic.

Exactly. And you blowhards are worse.

Yeah, O'Reilly is a pinko, and he won't even teabag julialg

bslotkin. you add so much. please continue with your trenchant analysis. P

blah blah, pithy backhanded comment, blah blah

btw this IS my hobby asshat

blah blah, disclosing no life, blah blah, insult, blah

The problem with Bush is that he was left of center. All his big government welfare state ideas plus his military expansion. I really hate tht guy. How many deals did he strike with Kennedy?

So what are you doing here?

"How many deals did he strike with Kennedy?"

... you probably mean John Fitzgerald Kennedy

AR ASSHAT Love it. Don't get it but love it.

Alan. Remember I told you, "Know your audience. Keep it stupid.

Remember nycdreamer... left-right good-evil dems-repugs blue-red smart-dumb us-them nycdreamer-square box

Finally... what?????

Pentagon Told to Save Billions for Use in War

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/04/us/politics/04pentagon.html?hp

ah, ar do you really want me to come in and add some equilibrium here....

rf, you're always welcome to join the fracas. finallyjoy, not so much. bslotkin, who adds zero, not at all.

finallyjoy has found a fan in riversider. how fitting. maybe they can get together to discuss how they find Rand so interesting.

For the uninitiated, the moral of the story is simply this: Politicians invariably respond to crises -- that in most cases they themselves created -- by spawning new government programs, laws and regulations. These, in turn, generate more havoc and poverty, which inspires the politicians to create more programs . . . and the downward spiral repeats itself until the productive sectors of the economy collapse under the collective weight of taxes and other burdens imposed in the name of fairness, equality and do-goodism.

In the book, these relentless wealth redistributionists and their programs are disparaged as "the looters and their laws." Every new act of government futility and stupidity carries with it a benevolent-sounding title. These include the "Anti-Greed Act" to redistribute income (sounds like Charlie Rangel's promises soak-the-rich tax bill) and the "Equalization of Opportunity Act" to prevent people from starting more than one business (to give other people a chance). My personal favorite, the "Anti Dog-Eat-Dog Act," aims to restrict cut-throat competition between firms and thus slow the wave of business bankruptcies. Why didn't Hank Paulson think of that?

These acts and edicts sound farcical, yes, but no more so than the actual events in Washington, circa 2008. We already have been served up the $700 billion "Emergency Economic Stabilization Act" and the "Auto Industry Financing and Restructuring Act." Now that Barack Obama is in town, he will soon sign into law with great urgency the "American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan." This latest Hail Mary pass will increase the federal budget (which has already expanded by $1.5 trillion in eight years under George Bush) by an additional $1 trillion -- in roughly his first 100 days in office.

The current economic strategy is right out of "Atlas Shrugged": The more incompetent you are in business, the more handouts the politicians will bestow on you. That's the justification for the $2 trillion of subsidies doled out already to keep afloat distressed insurance companies, banks, Wall Street investment houses, and auto companies -- while standing next in line for their share of the booty are real-estate developers, the steel industry, chemical companies, airlines, ethanol producers, construction firms and even catfish farmers. With each successive bailout to "calm the markets," another trillion of national wealth is subsequently lost. Yet, as "Atlas" grimly foretold, we now treat the incompetent who wreck their companies as victims, while those resourceful business owners who manage to make a profit are portrayed as recipients of illegitimate "windfalls."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123146363567166677.html

The twisted liberal logic would be hilarious for its stupidity if it wasn't so dangerous- take more and more of other people's money, ignore how doing so will effect the productivity of those people and business, redistribute it as the liberals think it should be spent and given away since they believe they know better for everyone (and they enjoy the centralized power it brings them), and then when that screws up the economy and the budget, blame Bush at all times. Laughable but sad.

LICcomm, nobody's ignoring "how doing so will effect the productivity of those people" ... quite obviously, higher taxes make people work harder to earn the same net amount that they'd make if they had the luxury to just earn the same net without taxation.

All taxation does is stop businesses from sitting around eating bon bons most of the day.

Get serious, LICcomm.

Sure alan, keep telling yourself that. I'm sure higher taxes causes businesses to hire more workers too, so they can produce more to make up for the higher taxes. We should tax everyone at a 99% rate so everyone will work harder.

Thanks for showing everyone how much of a joke you are.

best prescripton for productivity:

in the name of the invisible hand, let's turn our middle class into a working poor

done that--got the tshirt

Our middle class are "working poor"? Another idiotic statement. Look at the median 25-75th percentile in our country based on income, and look at their living conditions, and no intelligent person could consider that poverty.

America is slowly being covered with a pollutant. It is called progressivism or entitlement or the welfare state. Just like the oil slowly expanding, the sickness of a once great country spreads. Trillions of dollars spent for "stimulus" and no jobs. The market will open 200 points lower today because of the jobless numbers. The 80 year experiment with the social welfare state is coming to a crashing end. We are in real trouble. Wake up!

Oh Julia, Julia.

Do you really want to associated with someone as stpid as Lic?

check our nations largest employer, walmart (vociferously non-union)

average take home pay for a worker who opts for family HMO: 3BUX/HR

That's $120/week---$500/month---

working full time at our nation's largest employer

invisible hand at work

our middle class is shrinking as have-havenot differential had widened massively

newtown fumes are powerful

Julia says:

"Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.
Didn't need no welfare state,
Everybody paid his way,
gee, our old LaSalle ran great ...
Those were the days!"

Don't worry everyone, the leader of the regime just said everything is great, prosperity right around the corner.

LIC except 98% of Americans are now paying lower taxes than they have in the last 50 years - so how do you justify your claims that Obama is taxing people more?

petrfitz. You are right. The bottom 47% pay ZERO federal income tax.

Those elderly and poor and very wealthy people -- let's turn them upside-down and SHAKE the taxes out of them.

alan thinks 47% of U.S. households are elderly and poor. (chuckle)

Yes, LICcomm. As you must admit, the middle class has become the working poor, working sporadic part-time jobs without benefits or any security beyond the next shift or half-shift, and living on borrowed money. That's called poor, LICcomm.

In NY it's become such a desperate situation that some people put their monthly rent on credit cards. It's true, LICcomm -- you can look it up.

the wealthy would prefer to be stirred, not shaken.

If you can get 50.000001% of the people on government welfare(ss medicare etc..) the socialist can retain power unlit the system crashes. That is all they care about:, the elderly,the poor ,the children, just props. The next stage will be direct confiscation instead of taxes.

julialg, 50.000001% assumes even wealth distribution.

aboutready, maybe we need to try centrifuging the wealthy. We can borrow a ride from Astroland.

long live carter

alan, the middle class in this country enjoy an amazing quality of life. Good homes, food, amenities, consumer goods, cars. It's true, you can look it up.

Hey alan.. Stop calling finallyjoy julialg.. She or he is an impostor. I just got bored with all of the foolishness and needed a break.

Hi, how's Ayn Rand?!

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/B/bourke-white/b-w_living_full.html

who are you kidding? on top of everything else, you're a liar.

enter stage left: finallyjoy

as exit stage right: the unlovely julia

Because they're cousins.

Identical cousins, all the way.

imagine if the world would have listened to Carter instead of rejecting him? The USA wouldnt be dependent on foreign oil, major portions of our country would not be polluted with oil, terrorists wouldnt have funding, we'd be leading the world in alternate energy.......

And we would have avoided wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We would all be following sharia law.

That is the only real comparison between now with Obama and then with Carter. Now like then America is faced with having to make major changes in our way of life or the next decades will be filled with tough times and war. Now like then there is a major subset of the American people who are deciding to not take the challenge and do the work we need to do. They are instead listening to the "easy" way out that will only put off the problem and make our future even more difficult.

We are at a point where Americans can step up to the challenge and become the great people/country we used to be or we can avoid the challenge listen to partisan idiots who will drive us into more debt and further dependent on oil. Thanks GOP and Tea Party for miring the country into a loser path...

Drill baby Drill...

The greatest environmental disaster in our nation history under the leader of the regime.