White flight

Yes terrifying is just hyperbole for positioning in the debate....I've heard it let me tell you.

10023: I am not sure that an 8k rent is so far out of whack with a $2mm purchase. Maybe it ought to be closer to $1.7-1.8mm. A house is real property (unlike coops) and price to rents for condos in Manhattan are 25x or more.

yep, been there - had friends that lived not too far from there but still stuck with the nj stigma. cant get my wife to consider given she is from the west coast and has bought into all the smear thrown at the garden state.

New Rochelle is okay...Again, the schools. When we make that move it will involved a beyond reproach school system.. And since I dont want to live in Bronxville or Scarsdale, or anywhere in NJ that means CT.

no, not the river more like the black corridor that leads to nj.

rhino, still not talkin to me? dang, its your anniversary, lighten up.

Princeton is pretty sweet, rangers. Lacks gym right in-town (5 min. drive). If you buy a property close to town, you get good eats, town library, some useful stores within 10 mins. Great schools, some good private options. A few scenic runs. 10 min. drive to malls. Commute not so pleasant but doable - drive to train. They're taking away the Dinky from downtown Princeton last I heard.

the nj stigma. gotcha. well, your wife certainly sounds too fancy for morristown! wouldn't want the poor thing to humiliate herself. good night.

nyc10023, you still looking in the city?

No I have a stigma against NJ not my wife.

rangersfan
about 1 hour ago
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oh, and why did rhino end up being "trolled"?

rangersfan
39 minutes ago
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oh, i thought you were talking at me in the third person so maybe took it the wrong way. i am somewhat of a repeat poster for whatever that is worth.
Trolled means that rhino's posts has been turned to grey - some posters its obvious why they do so but not so sure with rhino.....

Aren't Rhino's gray? And not that bright? Are there any homosexual Rhinos?
Because Rhino hates homosexuals. You should have seen the thread where he was all over stevejhx, calling him a "cocksucker" and threatening to punch him. All because he couldn't win an argument.

Maybe they taught that at Iona Prep?

rhino, think lucy was talkin to me. youre good.

Rhino/Lucille: consider the life of a typical Manhattan housewife (assume "upper middle-class" so don't flame about city median income/lifestyle).

Get up at 6:30 (okay 8 if your kids sleep in). Bkfast (if lazy, can pack kids up and go to corner deli/diner/Sbux). Think about schedule for a.m. Any kiddie classes/school? If so, make way slowly to class while picking up stuff from DuaneReade/CVS/Fway/wherever. Is it gym day? If so, make way to gym & gym babysitting. If no school/lunch & day is nice, head for neighborhood playgrounds. Otherwise museum/Kidville. Home for lunch. Kids nap if they need to nap. Wake up/pick up school-aged kid/s. Head to playground or walk home slowly with time to grab coffee (either there or on way back). Hang out at playgrounds with kids & other parents. Home. Make dinner or heat up food while kids watch TV.

If reasonably social type, substitute any of said non-school activity with playdates. I dunno about you or your spouses, but I have a good imagination and a typical routine like this seems much more pleasant and less isolating (many chances to run into people, chat on way here & there) than in burbs. Is it uber-terrifying to be in burbs? Maybe not. But humans are social, and I'm wondering if a big part of the resistance to moving stems from fear of isolation.

Rangers: nah, I'm done. We're here (as far as we know) until it's time to up sticks and leave the country.

hahahaha. stevejhx and rhino in a cage match. thats better than handicapping nyc vs.the burbs.

rhino, what stigma?

lucy was indeed talking to you. she forgot to mention. rangers suck. but, like, imgine that howled in unison by an often vicotrious drunken mob.

10023, i don't have to imagine it, i live it every day. different strokes.

nyc10023, as far as i can tell your post above for the nyc housewife is spot on, thus begging the question of the OP. nyc is increasingly becoming a tough place to make a solid arguement for the number crunching and seeking out something better....or less maddening. reverse stepford wife syndrom.

Live which every day? In the burbs or the city? And what are the tradeoffs for you (city v. burbs)?

lucille, i get it, i offended you. but werent you going to bed?

10023, everything you describe is done by suburban moms every day. i just want to point out that you chat with the people ar your particular destinations, which you can do in the suburbs. unless you chat with the homeless people in the street? i do that too, sometimes, but it's not like i'm walking down the street whisteling a happy little song and chatting with random strangers i pass. in fact, if anything, new yorkers make the most effort of possible anyone ever to avoid human contact, unless with a designated pre approved acceptable person.

The whole thing changes again (I imagine) when your kid/s are all old enough to be in school full-time. Then unless you are a big-time socialite, I can't think that most modern women (say under the age of 50, since we're all postponing motherhood) would be content to stay at home, cook and deal with kids' homework. Unless you're uber-housewife who makes everything from scratch, including socks. So either you're off doing something non-paying thing or you get a job.

no, i said good night to you. you didn't offend me, don't be silly.

hmmmm, then why the insult?

Lucille: didn't explain well. Instead of driving in a car, I am walking and usually chat with people I know whom I run into on the street. Also, it's more pleasant (obviously different for everyone) for me to be out walking to places as opposed to driving to places on errands. Even if it's raining or snowing - and we don't have that many absolutely miserable rainy/snowy days here. I remember a very pleasant school snow day last year where we walked in the fresh snow to Alice's Tea Cup and had an impromptu girlie tea. I love driving, just not for errands and not with kids.

I am a child of the suburbs and I know what I like and don't like about suburban living. As a housewife with young children, I know I wouldn't like it for reasons given.

to insult the rangers is to insult you? now that's a fan!
i just meant that the origins of your jersey hate is more obvious, then, let's say someone who thinks they are declaring the superiority of their "status" by insulting the lovely and diverse garden state, when they are in fact embarassing themselves before the people who are in fact their "status" superiors. that's all.

not declaring any superiority by any means. i used to live in basking ridge which is about 15 minutes from morristown. dont be so sensitive, its not very becoming. dismissing jersey is the practically akin to saying mustard instead of mayo - i didnt ask for grey poupon.

and happy anniversary rhino to you and the missus! hows that for reaching out? meet you in camp david for next years family vacation.

The other pleasant thing about a walking life is that you can make an event of the walk itself, unlike a drive (unless you really, really like to guzzle gas daily). Sometimes there is no errand at the end of the walk. Just a walk to look at nice buildings or to get a coffee if you don't feel like being inside with young children or hear the persistent nagging of older ones for food/electronics. The yard can serve much the same purpose but generally (based on anecdata) gets much less use that one might imagine.

10023 i get it, it's where you love to live. my original (ok, a little nasty) post was for a clarification of the "terrifying" denouncement. it's just people doing people things. and they have tons of tea party places in the suburbs. there are just more of them, they are much nicer and cheaper. ;)

our families are between ny, philly and dc, so nj it is for us. lately i've been spending a lot of time in the commuter towns with my kids, and i have to say, i like it! we have a car, too

on friday we went to morristown for the day, did apple picking at wightsman farms, had lunch in town, and went to frelighuysen arboretum in the afternoon. can't say it wasn't a day well spent.

my 3yo daughter loved the gardens, so next week we are going to the cora hartshort arboretum in short hills, the reeves-reed in summit and there's one more, i wrote it down.

i also want to take them out to allentown. and shit, when the leaves start changing, i'm popping an adderall and driving all the way out to lambertsville!

But lucille, if you feel that suburbs v. city is a wash anyway for a housewife, then it's hard for me on the other side to explain that it isn't. I would not stoop to arguing that it's terrifying, but it can be isolating for some.

But not within a 5 minute walk of your house, they aren't.

Lambertsville is very pretty indeed. That whole area of NJ is under-rated.

Rhino, why wouldn't you want to live in Bronxville or Scarsdale?

van vleck house and gardens in montclair. that's it.

i can't imagine that people who would feel isolated doing regular things in the suburbs are less isolated in the city. i've shown up at many playgrounds in these towns with my kids and every time felt very welcomed by the mostly smiling mostly friendly moms. everything in new york is about exclusivity, about keeping people out, right down to the often scowling moms at the city playgrounds. if anything, being a sahm in the burbs would be much less isolating. that's just my impression.

Lucille: I did a search on your old posts (having forgotten what your situation was). You've already decided that you're headed off to the burbs, no? We're all stubborn - no way I can convince you that non-demented reasonable people would genuinely feel more isolated and "terrified" in the burbs (I even know people who've tried it and left and not the ridiculous examples in the press) because you're halfway there. If I had to move to the burbs, I would make the best of it but I can't see how I would prefer it if I had my choice (with no hard tradeoffs).

it was always on the table, getting more and more real the closer my oldest got to school age. but it only became definite in the last few month, in my mind at least. mr. bluth doesn't care one way or the other, oddly. everything is just easier for a parent in the burbs imo. but fwiw, the reason we are only looking at towns with an easy commute is that when my kids are older i do plan to go back to work, at least part time.

ha! you're not talking about meme the food nazi are you? now, that's a great example of someone who should never leave the island of manhattan. for any reason.

I understand how pleasant being a housewife is in Manhattan...and how the burbs might be relatively isolation. The first and last question is at what cost to the family budget / at what cost to the family unit as a function of space.

I dont want to live in Bronxville or Scarsdale because I grew up there and I wouldnt see the fun in it...and I need space from people who I grew up with. And also, I think the commute vs. property and property taxes balance is better in say Riverside or Darien, CT.

I can appreciate a "walking culture" of a city being enjoyable for young moms. But the flip side is getting out of the city with a stroller a baby (cant imagine two) and all the gear in taxis and trains...unless of course youre willing to take on the crazy expense of a car.

sorry i missed the party. we were also celebrating our anniversary last night :)

"what is so terrifying?" - YES, 10023 nailed it. maybe i'm demented, but the isolation is genuinely scary to me, so much so that i would actually fear a decline in my mental health with the change of lifestyle.

Well where ever you decide to live I hope you're happy, life is too short to procrastinate. Seems like yesterday when I was schlepping the kids off to West Village nursery school. Now my son is 25 and daughter is 23. The art of happiness is not contingent on your zip code alone, just hope the rain holds off so I can get my 18 in at Wild Turkey today.

Lucille: Check out The York Street House in Lambertville,http://www.yorkstreethouse.com/ we stayed there last weekend. In town so you can walk to everything, great house and family that runs it. For a more out of the way place check out Chimney Hill..they have Alpacas, kids will love that! http://www.chimneyhillinn.com/

I'm terrified of a $2mm mortgage with a financial services base salary. I just think your language is dramatic because you like living in the city. All this said, if you all can afford the space that makes you happy, cool for you. I'm kinda unable/unwilling to pay the price for the space I think is necessary for a family of four.

Its not really procrastinating to be in the city until you have the two kids....if one of the main driving factors of considering leaving is being unable to afford the space for the two kids.

BUT, it's different if you have family and friends already in place. We do not. i can imagine a less shocking transition if you have a support system in the burbs.

I think you can forge very real relationships anywhere, but the city certainly gives you a (false?) sense of security with its 24/7 activity and dense population.

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

Sometimes you have to make a sacrifice...or maybe you don't. I don't see it as a good enough reason. But if you tell me you dont think it hurts your children or your husband or your long term financial health to be here, then by all means.

I dont have that need to be around people all the time...but being around people all the time actually comforts my wife. The city works well for lawyer track professionals and doctors who have a much better sense of their bottom line year to year. Or if you ascend to upper level in a top hedge fund and you know each year your baseline is high. My whole point of this is the Wall Street rank and file, Senior VPs with bases of $150k-250k...including myself... I just running the $400-500k budget down here is dumb for what you actually get (no space, no middle/high school, $1000/mo for a car).

"I just think running"

What do you all do for the holidays? I HATE the fact I can accommodate a reasonable holiday dinner in our apartment. It feels childlike to me.

I miss the days when $100k a year(early 90's?) was big money and if you made $30-$40k you could live decently and even raise a family in the Village/Soho while living in your $450 a month rs apartment that you rented 5 years before.
Now the disparity in incomes is off da charts and long gone is the diversity/community of neighborhoods like Soho and the West Village with its "middle class." Now I'm just being sentimental...those days are long gone with the Mudd Club and Max's Kansas City...lol.

How about just a classic six for $1.1mm not $1.7mm.

My family would never come to the "City" for a holiday...even when I was married and lived in a wonderful brownstone in Chelsea. That's Jersey family for you..lol.

Attainable brownstones seem like unicorns to me at this point.

I guess unless I want to live in Park Slope.

My (ex) father in law bought it in 1963 after he and his wife were renting it and then she got pregnant so they bought it. I forget what they paid, but w 22nd between 9th & 10th was no picnic then or for most of the 70's and 80's. But that was NYC and that is what I loved about living here...it was a diverse city with clear boundaries. I moved into the house in about 1982, the block was great as far as I was concerned and had everyone from truck drivers to theater people (in-laws were in the entertainment biz/actors.)

I remember going to Montrachet in the 80's and the women would wait by the coat check for their cars back to the UES, afraid to venture onto the streets of Tribeca.

Rhino: from what you've said, I think that a burb is more conducive to a happy life for you. Maybe the key is to rent in your desired burb for at least a year. Wouldn't make much sense for you to commit to Darien & mtge, without having tried it out.

Don't knock brownstone Bk. I remember the first time I visited Park Slope in the late 90s. Didn't like it - seemed no different from say, Hoboken, with better architecture. My second trip to Bk was to the Smith Street restaurant strip in '01. Loved it. Thought it was fantastic, was pleasantly surprised by the RE prices. I visited Fort Greene for the first time on a beautiful fall day in '03. Gorgeous. I had no preconception of what it might be like, so when I got out of the G stop by Pratt I was struck dumb by the houses.

'02 - first visit to Fort Greene.

Happy anniversary to all (ourselves included). I know I arranged for an early fall wedding bcs of the discount from summer prices!

I'm always curious when people face this fork in the road - why is there nothing between Manhattan and the suburbs? Is it the schools? The attached houses? The lack of a big yard?

uwsmom, what i was trying to say is that i have made lots of contacts just showing up at a playground and chatting with the moms there, and i have been shocked by how receptive they are to a friendly stranger. i have some distant family/family friends in nj and we can stop for a visit or whatever, but these are not people with whom we would spend our days. i didn't call you demented and my hostility is a product of the irritation and annoyance about the stupid things i hear every day from my mom friends.

10023, we got married in october because i wanted an outdoors country wedding surrounded by the colors! the colors! of fall. we got married in virginia horse country. it was pretty spectacular visually, but very low key and family oriented in scale. have no idea why everyone wants to get married in the sweltering heat of summer, all the guests are sweaty and cranky.

Delving deeper into Manhattan housewife psychology, the "terror" derives from the greater power the breadwinner usually has in these stay or move arguments. If the breadwinner wants to move to the burbs based on cost of space & schools, what weapon does a dissenting housewife really have? To put it bluntly like Rhino, if you can't bring 150k-200k to the table and there are legit space-school concerns, should the non-earning partner really have equal say?

Assuming of course that family support & other factors are a wash.

"What do you all do for the holidays? I HATE the fact I can accommodate a reasonable holiday dinner in our apartment. It feels childlike to me."

this is one of my biggest problems with apartment life. we are still very young compared to other couples who have children our age, so gypsying between the relatives is still fun for us. but in the near future we'll have to start recipricating by regularly playing hosts to "grown ups" ie. real meals not just fun casual friends who will eat and drink anything. so things like a proper dining room and an accomodating living room will be a must. if you come from a fairly large family, this is limits your options to the pre wars.

"should the non-earning partner really have equal say"

i'm not sure that's what he was actually saying, but a couple becomes equal partners when they enter the marriage. however...advantageous....the marriage may have been for one party over the other, only a real sadistic scumbag would hold that over his WIFE. not girlfriend, fiancee, mistress, whatever. your WIFE is an equal partner in your life, she is the mother of your chidlren, she is your other half, your children, the furure of your family are part you and part she. so, maybe some husbands would treat their wives this way, but there are also husbands who beat their wives. we don't need to seriosuly take them into account.

Sounded like it to me.

Agree about hosting, if organizing big family dinners over holidays & other occasions is your thing, then suburban living beckons unless you are in a prewar or brownstone.

you know what is a real concern, communicated very discretly after knocking back a few? that once the early stages of marriage pass and the husband starts banging his secretary, what will the wife do to make herself feel better? no kidding, several mom friends have expressed this to me in one way or another.

You have an interesting circle of Manhattan mom friends.

just honest and a little raunchy once properly sauced. but i think their fears are unfounded. when women cheat they usually do it closer to home. so anecdatally speaking, should they ever get the urge to make things interesting, they will probably just do what everyone else does. start banging one of their husbands' friends of one of their friends' husbands. and you don't need manhattan for that.

i think what rhino was saying is that it's unreasonable and unwise for mrs. rhino to insist on an unsustainable manhattan lifestyle. if they could easily afford it on their income and he just said "NO I AM A MAAAAAN HEAR ME ROAR" it would be one thing. i think he just wants mrs. rhino to be realistic, or contribute to the family pot by getting a job of her own.

Wow I have never heard presumed infidelity as a pro Manhattan argument.

"If the breadwinner wants to move to the burbs based on cost of space & schools, what weapon does a dissenting housewife really have? To put it bluntly like Rhino, if you can't bring 150k-200k to the table and there are legit space-school concerns, should the non-earning partner really have equal say?"

I don't want to go there...My wife can earn $150k+ but we both prefer her to be home. And I think this deal where women 'keep themselves busy' after kids go to school full time is kind of funny. Go for the gold or stay home. I know if my wife put her mind to it and make money a priority she could make money. She really loves to be a mom at home.

To whoever said it....Brooklyn has no appeal because it doesn't solve the school issue. I also want to grill in my backyard. I think this whole walking lifestyle is cool and fun....to a point. If it would help my wife at all, I'd be happy to go for a house walking distance to a decent little town center.

The issue here is even if I start cranking $600-800k consistently, its still my prerogative to want to live in a house....My friends $2.5mm apartment is still just a tiny house with a view on 95th & Columbus... Lets face facts. Manhattan apartments kind of suck.

What we can afford on my income is fine for many...its just not fine with me! Even if I started hitting $1mm a year (again) maybe I'd want to just retire earlier rather than put it back into the Manhattan economy.

rhino, once the kids are on school all day, then after school activities, she will no longer be a mom at home. she will just be mrs. rhino sitting around the house bored out of her mind. this is how women's brains degenerate, they stop using them. if she was a lawyer in a past life, she will need the stimulation to feel herself. not now, not with small kid(s) but when the kids have their own lives and don't really need her accept in a driver capacity

I think then she should do what she needs to do then...whether that means starting a business, and/or coming into the city in the car or on the train three or four times a week... I think I'd be doing women a disservice if I would to give credence to these terror arguments and early dementia. Be creative. I think a lot of of suburban wifes would take umbrage to this idea that their minds necessarily atrophy outside of Manhattan.

rhino, I think if you want to grill in the backyard, then you would be happier in a suburb regardless of the family income - just my two cents - these things are not just about money

They are not just about money. But if I made $2mm a year I'd buy a $4mm apartment and park two cars under it. Then I'd buy a Hamptons house. Given my outlook, I'd rather leave. If I outperform expectations, we'll buy a pied a terre.

i think you are right now where i was about a year ago. your mind is almost made up about leaving, you are just not sure where to go. send mrs' rhino on a recon to the towns you think may be right for you guys for the entire day. she has drink coffee at the local starbucks, hang out at the playgrounds, sometimes places like gymboree offer free introductory classes, she could take one and get a feel for the other moms. every town will have different posses of bitchy women, she has to find the town where she will feel at home, and whose bitches she can one day call friends. once she starts to get out there and see the towns and meet the people she will feel more in control of the situation and realize that it's not something she is forced to do against her will. also, seeing the amenities in person, going to clean playgrounds, having a choice of several tea party/indoor play/whatever things to do every day, she will start to compare that to her mom life in the city, and the city will start to come up short. not immidiately, but over time. maybe you can lead the way in the beginning by finding weekend activities for the family. sounds like *your* mind is made up though.

I am one step ahead of you. We lived in Rowayton for all of July and got to know Rowayton, Darien and New Canaan.

I came back convinced. She didn't...but at some point I feel like as CFO with sole responsibility for our finances....

This is one for the NYT ethicist. Suffice to say, we were married in 2007 and there has been no net wealth creation since then!

but then maybe she doesn't have an adequate grasp of your finances? does she handle the bill paying and all that? if she already understands what you have, maybe you need to freak her out about the economy. email her the incresingly abundant articles of our impending economic doom. seriously, when where you are reading your news, just send her the scariest ones. do you guys talk about politcs, economy, etc? maybe she just doesn't share your concerns about the future because she is not reading what you read.

I may as well get deeper into the rabbit hole. I make much less than I did in 2007, yet I have plenty of money in the bank... I don't think its constructive for me to scare her. The other "problem" is is basically sidestepped the market crash. Net net we made more on out investments in 2009 than we lost in 2008.

Honestly, my best option is to sit pat for three years, have another kid and let her chase them around this 1200sqft box until she says uncle. I would just rather do it now if its already fete de compli.

Or maybe I just say we can have another child when you are willing to give a timetable for leaving. Haha.

Also she wants to send my kid (Dec birthday) to nursery next year, but I want to hold her back. I subscribe to Outliers logic. The the crux of the debate is PS 6 in 2013....The crux of my position is CT nursery in fall 2012.

there you are, then. one kid in the city is ok, 2 or more is completely different. she'll see that when it becomes her reality. in the meantime, for youself, keep an eye on the towns you like, most of them are on or near water, and if something really tasty comes up, irresistable by any standards, maybe you can sell it to her as a weekend country home, while you keep renting the place on the east side. that way you will have your future suburban home and just wait for her to grow into it. but keeping up with the real estate in the towns you like and convincing yourself that you actually are in the market, just waiting for that awesome deal, might keep you from starting to resent her a little bit.

"Or maybe I just say we can have another child when you are willing to give a timetable for leaving"

don't even do that, when she starts pushing around that double stroller, lugging around all the crap that 2 kids need every day, managing the schedule for 2 kids on foot/cab instead of just tossing them in a big comfy suv with a dvd player and ass warmers...she'll come around.

want to know something crazy? and this is just what happened to me when becamse a sahm, i think i'm going to skip nursery/pre school. i think my kids will just start kindergarten where ever we settle. this might not be her personality, but there is just so much to do with little kids in the ny area and areas accessable by car. i plan trips almost every day and we leave in the morning and come back for dinner. i'm almost 100% sure i don't want to send them to a real pre k at this point. i signed up my oldest for morning classes (art/gymnastics/swimming/just little classes), so almost every day she is in an environment where she has to pay attention and respect somebody's authoritar for at least an hour. but beyond that, i think i just want to hang out with them and show them as much of the world around here as i can. but, this is not normal, it's just something i discovered about myself after kids. in the past always assumed my kids would go to pre school, school, everything in order.

> If you like a split level ranch for $1.2M plus a 90 minute commute, go for it.

LOL. If you commuted 90 mins. outside of NYC, you'd be hard pressed to find a house that expensive, unless it came with 2000 acres. In reality, you can live in a "top shelf" suburban town starting at $700k, if you want a split-level ranch. This is 30 mins from midtown.

So wait Lucille...where exactly (well not EXACTLY) do you live?

I would totally blow off nursery but I think that would be too much shock to my wife's world view. I didn't do nursery...my mom taught me to read and I went to kindergarten the man and that was that.

Pissing on $700k options is just obnoxious. There's lots of nice little towns yes 30-35 trains away with very livable homes of that price.

on the westside in the 199 zone. but i am now starting to look for an apartment to rent for a year in millburn/summit area, they seem to have a lot of apartments. livingston also has some apartments. and who knows, maybe find some secret town that no one ever talks about because they don't want anyone moving in. it gets really pretty out in morris twp and harding, mendham and chester, but that's just so far.

i think they'll learn more hanging out with me than in a school. also, i like hanging out with them, they're fun! and they grow up so fast.

I'm down with that. Its also frugal. Just had a good conversation. I think we're on a track to be out in two years. That'll do.

good luck!

KeithB
"Check out The York Street House in Lambertville,http://www.yorkstreethouse.com/ we stayed there last weekend. In town so you can walk to everything, great house and family that runs it. For a more out of the way place check out Chimney Hill..they have Alpacas, kids will love that! http://www.chimneyhillinn.com/"

thank you for the suggestions

"when she starts pushing around that double stroller, lugging around all the crap that 2 kids need every day, managing the schedule for 2 kids on foot/cab instead of just tossing them in a big comfy suv with a dvd player and ass warmers...she'll come around."

??

I HATE dealing with cars and carseats. I'd much rather lug around 2 kids and all their crap in my double stroller.

Our plan B du jour is a nice townhouse in Society Hill Philadelphia.

Society Hill idea is a great one. I'd move to Philly in a second.

lucillbluth... I know a lot about Millburn/Short Hills... If you have any questions, I will try to help you.

thanks julialg

uwsmom, he wants to move. he needs to get his wife on board. this is the basic point here.

our plan b used to be moving to san francisco, followed closely by moving to switzerland. but it looks like nj will be stuck with the bluths for the forseeable future.

what happened to the thread where Rhino called stevjx a "gay translating accountant"?

Deleted?

Between that and the one where w67thstreet advocated that all Arab countries and Israel blow each other up, streeteasy is sure doing a lot of inconvenient thread deletion.

I wonder if the thread still exists where w67thstreet said that the real estate industry is responsible for the mother who killed her 4 children. (and said the mother had a kind heart because she didn't kill her 2 year old).

I think also the one where w67thstreet said "of the thousands of people who touched my wife" - I think that was deleted too.