Coop vs. Condo Boards

Here is my understanding. Hopefully others will correct me if I'm wrong.

Coop boards are the board of the corporation that owns the building, so they have all the authority of any corporate board -- which is quite a lot. They can make pretty much any rule they wish, so long as it doesn't conflict with law, and the courts will enforce it. Of course, the board is elected by the shareholder/tenants so if it gets too far out of line from the wishes of the majority, it is likely to be replaced.

Condo boards have the powers of a suburban homeowners association -- which are quite broad as well, as you know if you've ever visited an "adults only" community that regulates the color of the paint owners use, the size of the flags they display, and the age of their guests. Courts will uphold virtually any house rule of a condominium association, just like they uphold the rules of gated communities in the suburbs, so long as it is not manifestly unreasonable or illegal. Again, the main recourse that homeowners have is political and economic: if they don't like the board, they are free to vote for a different one, or to sell and move.

As a matter of practice, however, in NYC coops tend to attract people who are worried about others' behavior that may impact on them -- they don't want to hear another tenant's noise or smell their smells -- while condos tend to attract buyers who are more interested in being allowed to do whatever they want to without worrying about the impact on others -- they don't want someone telling them when to turn the noise down.

So, for example, while condo boards have the right to impose rules limiting sublets, in NYC they rarely do, and while coops have no obligation to do so, they usually do.

Thus, the key difference is not law but culture. That means you do need to investigate the culture of particular buildings and the practice of particular boards, regardless of whether organized as coop or condo.

I believe that many NY coop boards in older buildings routinely refuse to allow w/d because of fears that the plumbing or venting won't be able to handle it and unwillingness to spend the money necessary to upgrade. They may also fear leaks into other apartments -- so even when the plumbing is adequate, they may have "no wet over dry" rules that limit where the w/d can be. But this is a generalization; I think other coops are more permissive.

Condos tend to be newer, where leaks are less likely to be an issue (concrete floors) and the plumbing is more likely (but by no means guaranteed) to be adequate (although venting may still be an issue). So the actual issues of intrusion on your neighbors are likely to be less.

Combined with the usual philosophic differences, I'd guess that most condos are more likely to let you do what you want. However, I can't imagine any competent board, coop or condo, allowing you to install w/d without proof that you aren't going to damage the building -- an improperly vented dryer is a menace to the entire building.

One can't make a general ruling on whether co-ops or condos are friendly to renovations... It's going to vary entirely by building.

However, the managing agent of any building you're interested in can tell you what the ruling is going to be on a W/D.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

front_porch, if I'm interested in making an offer on a co-op which doesn't presently have a w/d or hookup in the unit, will the managing agent talk to me before I make an offer or will I only be able to talk with them during the due diligence phase prior to a contract being signed? Again, I appreciate your opinion in your experience - I don't expect a general rule for all buildings.

financeguy, I appreciate your thoughtful response to my inquiry. Other than reading board minutes, any suggestions on how to ascertain the "culture" of a co-op building?

Lob, are you brokerless? and who's the managing agent?

you can answer off-board if you want.

ali r.
ali [at] DG Neary {dot} com

Sorry, front_porch, didn't mean to overstep or impose upon you. I'll speak with my broker about contacting managing agents.

Yesterday, my husband brought home this informative article detailing the relative values of both co-ops and condos. Jewelry or flowers would have been better, but okay.

Sorry, front_porch, didn't mean to overstep or impose upon you. I'll speak with my broker about contacting managing agents.

Yesterday, my husband brought home this informative article detailing the relative values of both co-ops and condos. Jewelry or flowers would have been better, but okay.

"The Condominium v. Cooperative Puzzle: An Empirical Analysis of Housing in New York City" (Michael H. Schill, Joan Voicu and Jonathan Miller), Furman Center for Real Estate and Urban Policy, www.law.nyu.edu/realestatecenter/(2006).

Not in legalese for the most part (a little caselaw here and there) - good analysis of the distinctions between and the relative value of these two types of entities.

My feeling is the boards are very similar except that coop boards by their nature have more control over the purchase process and the vetting of applicants. In most cases people want to do the right thing. What's different is the extra power given to coop boards.

no prob. lob!

the answer may actually be in your broker's computer system (whether it's Limo/Taxi/RealPlus or whatever) and that's why I volunteered to fetch it too -- it MIGHT already be noted on the database file.

cheers
ali