Downtown by Philippe Starck

does anyone have any thoughts about this building? I went in today to get a feel for the layouts, some of them are quite good however while I was waiting in the lobby 2 people came down to complain about problems (1 was floor buckling, 1 was no hot water).

lol - I cant believe people are actually living in it yet, I asked to see the ammenities only to be told they wont be even available for inspection until the 1st of September with expected opening dates in October.....

Dean

BTW - total long shot but if anyone sees this post and has an 04 or 06 apartment for rent please get in touch :)

Dean

If you are looking to rent keep in mind that Wall Street is going to be ripped up again. The construction marks are there awaiting the jackhammers. Also there is no subway service during the weekends down here (1,9,4,5,R,W all shut down on weekends for construction which has been going on prior to 9/11) & the Fulton Street Transit center is going to start soon, which means plenty of jackhammering through 2009 (at least). Good Luck!

when you say Wall Street is going to be ripped up again what do you mean? the street, the station, the entire block etc?

I know the trains are out to city hall for the next few months on weekends, is there anything else I should know?

Dean

hmmm the apt we were supposed to rent has just been removed from the market, i wonder if the owner took the quick cash in the buyback program and is reslleing it back to the developer.

Does anyone know how quickly these rentals are goign (or not), they seem to be little in the way of change this week (my broker said they hadn't closed on any of them yet), wondering if I'm making the right move.

Dean

and does anyone know the buyback deal that has been offered?

buyback deal was for people who bought early, when the building first opened. the developers bought back a bunch of the contracts & in return will receive 17% commission when they resell them. If you look at the floorplans they are pretty weak. We have seen most of the actual apartments. They are selling one that is 2 home offices and NO bedrooms for onver 1m. And the construction is supposed to get really bad, they have said starting next year it will progressively worsen.

It's crazy, why are so many condos for rent in this building.........it's brand new.....too many flippers I guess!

We saw about 5 units for rent yesterday, it seems both sale and rental prices are dropping as "investors" who can't sell start to feel the bite of those monthly payments. Although some of the units were over 1,700 square feet, most were poorly laid out, with alot of unusable hallway space. My wife liked the building more than me, which I thought was too European in feel, meaning alot of form over function. While the bathrooms were big and nice, clumsy fittings means there was little shelf space for toiletries, etc. My wife loved the views from the upper floors. While the views were nice, I was skeptical of the facilities being completed anytime soon, it looked like the building still needed alot of finishing work. Unit #2308 was the bargain rental at $5k/month with over 1,400 sf of usable space. The "investor" was offering a 100% rent credit toward a purchase option, but wanted $1.65 million. Good luck with that, there's only another 50 units for sale and those mortgage and condo fee payments are going to force some units to be puked back soon. Be prepared for many more agents lurking the front desk in the weeks and months ahead!

Went to see some apartments for sale today. I must say I was very unimpressed. The lobby looks like it's half finished when in fact it isn't. Though the apartment I saw was large (3 bedrooms/2200 SF) with good light, the finishes were cheap. The biggest joke was the heater/AC units which look like units out of a cheap motel. Very uninspired and a total disappointment.

I have to agree with the comments above. And none of the amenities are even ready. Also you are paying high common charges for so much stuff you probably won't use. Most of the layouts we saw were poorly set up & a lot of the condos they call "2 bedrooms" are actually 2 home offices. They even call some of the alcove apartments, one bedrooms. It seems they rushed to get these ready & on the market and it really shows. A one bedroom that's 1600 square feet is great, but not for 1.7million. There is too much unusable space in many of the units.

I think the apartments look fantastic. Those same units in other areas of town, i.e. midtown, upper east/westside would probably be asking almost double the prie in new construction.. I am an uptown broker and all new buildings have quirks that have to be fixed. In any good building they are fixed by the developer or else they are liable

Well let's consider the fact that the entire area is going to be ripped up for years. Has anyone walked around wall street? I have lived in the area for years & it's worse than it's ever been. The MTA is going to be digging up several streets & buildings for the next 3 years! I think residents of the area know more about this than a broker who doesn't even live in the area. The construction factor alone makes the area less desirable. The upper west side is quiet, they don't jackhammer at night. Come down to wall street at 2am and they are jackhammering and sawing & making a lot of noise.

As a broker who runs on commission you have to talk up buildings. it's a biased opinion

Do any of these condos have real bedrooms. Everytime we pull up a floorplan it's only home offices. They should have left this building offices!

there are many appartments that have real bedrooms...I have seen them with my own eyes..you just have to keep an eye out because the weird layouts are the ones people are trying to flip..they have only close on half of the appartments and the higher floors (where there is a greater window to surface area ratio) are not yet available...I am watching and waiting...

Well we live around the corner and have looked at about 30 different layouts over the past 8 months.
I guess everyone can have their own opinion. We just weren't that impressed.

I flew over to NYC from London last week to look at this building. Despite the lack of completed amenities, I consider this to be a pretty good development. Definitely the value is in units 2000 sq ft and upwards.

way over priced and the layouts should have been better considering they were starting from scratch....the people trying to sell these units still think the market is on the upswing....have fun paying the mortgage as the unit sits there ;^p

Wow, you guys sound like a bunch of jealous whiners to me. My wife and I own a unit with over 2000 square feet, the developer did a great job on the finishes, tall ceilings, great layout, great light, great views (we overlook the stock exchange). For reasons beyond my control I don't live there now but we can't wait until our renter leaves when his lease is up so we can move in (and yes, I'm renting at a healthy profit). Can't wait to use the pool in the middle of the summer (from someone who is not looking to flip)

I guess everyone has their own opinion on what is nice & what isn't. The beauty of being able to post our own opinions on what we think is worth it. Fortunately we don't think this building is worth it.

If you own there why do you need to post on this board & justify the purchase? Seems a bit odd.

still over priced and wow look at all that are for rent and for sale........

I'm thinking about buying into this building at around $850/sqft, I can't see how this is a bad investment over the next 5 year when the area develops. How could you feel otherwise?

Because at $850/sqft you end up with a long 2-window hallway (although a broker would call it a 2BR) designed for "investors" looking for cheap square footage. So long as you believe in the greater fool theory, you've got a great investment.

Unfortunately, the last comment isn't based on fact. There are "some" apts in the building that don't have the best lay-out and are advertsied as 2 bdrms when they probably shouldn't be, but there are many that are well designed, real 2 bdrms and are exceptional values on $ per sq ft basis. You just have to look at the units to find one that suits you. I bought here after looking at close to 25 different apts in the building and another 30-40 in the downtown area and flatiron. The building has the same timing and construction finalization delays that any new building has, but is a very good value.

I'm considering a unit that has 2 home offices. Not ideal in terms of layout due to the lack of windows (2 at the end of the living room) but still seems like a good deal in the long run.

see this blog. they talk about rooms with no windows.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4851&page=2

There are soooo many more buildings coming to the market in the wall street area that have True bedrooms in them I would make sure to look around first.

The fixtures in the building are also crap. Make sure to look at kitchen cabinet space too as the units we viewed only had about 5 cabinets total.........

Keep in mind there is also talk of shutting down Broadway downtown to buses only for the new MTA fulton street transit center. Will make it that much harder to get downtown.

#30 what are the "soooo many more buildings" coming to market? Please post a link, thanks.

I'm not #30, but 25 Broad and 40 Broad come to mind.

Historically, it had been more profitable for developers to focus on tribeca, soho, mid-town, etc. because NY's urban renewal hit there first, making sale prices more attractive for developers. Combine cheaper dowtown building costs, many office buildings ripe for conversion and the continuation of urban renewal and you can see why so many buildings have come to the downtown market recently. Because they can be sold at slightly cheaper prices than vs. soho/tribeca, etc, and they are a short commute for many, it's not surprising developers eventually ended up downtown in such force. We looked at Starck, generally liked the conversion, although it is a poster child for the problems in tranforming at office building into luxury condos. The per sf prices are misleading in many of the units because you're buying a long hallway with two windows that some broker is going to call a 2BR. That said, there are some very nice units in there, but you pay for it. You've got alot to choose from downtown, if a Starck unit is $800/sf, it's because it has 2 windows and no bedrooms. You get what you pay for.

more buildings coming to market in answer to the question. 88 greenwich, the building in front of 88 is coming down & will be condos as is the parking lot next to 88 greenwich, the empty lot behind the deutsche bank bldg will be condos/hotel, the building on the south side of water & wall is going to be condo/hotel (big orange colored bldg.), william beaver house, the parking lot next to NYU downtown hospital is going to be about 60 stories high with the top stories condos, the setai at 40 broad street & the bldg. next to the Setai, 15 broad (which still hasn't sold out), 20 pine. I'm sure there are plenty more I haven't heard of just yet.

the empty lot behind the DB building is going to be a W hotel (the lot directly west of the rehabbed greenwich street condo--120 greenwich?). Also, the DB building is going to house a new 50 story JPMC tower once they actually finally tear it down.

the building behind DB, the W hotel, is going to be a condo/hotel as listed above.
http://www.therealdeal.net/breaking_news/2007/01/12/1168622727.php

how pathetic, if you go to curbed.com you can see that someone is trying to plan a giant party at this bldg. Over 30% of the building is renters.......that should speak for itself.

how pathetic, if you go to curbed.com you can see that someone is trying to plan a giant party at this bldg. Over 30% of the building is renters.......that should speak for itself.

this building has more flippers than any others in the wall street area. we have been watching the history on street easy for some time now.

Went to an open house recently and was very disappointed with the quality and finishings of the apartment and building!

Why everyone is so uptight about the marketing is beyond me. Call it what you want, you see what it is when you arrive, a Sexy NY loft apartment that offers an opportunity to be in the hottest hub of the downtown area at a low psf price. The fact that most are flippers is an opportunity. But please, keep your eye's closed, because that only ensures that people like me who see value will be able to capitalize on the upside. Pool, kids playroom, etc. Not too many builidngs can offer this downtown. Also this area has the richest history and you would be silly not to consider buying in place like this. What it lacks in windows it caputures in space and open planning. I think there is lot of appealing things about this property.

Don't like the building at all. Hall way is horrible, kitchen not functional, bathroom looks cheap and overall finishes are just bad. Even the Open House TV show commented on these issues. The psf price is not worth it. I would rather buy in 90 William (much better finishes).

How do realtors and owners in this building justify such high rents in consideration of funky disfunctional floor plans and fact that none of amenities are completed yet (although none of the marketing pieces reveal this fact)? There are 24 units for rent in the building. Some listed since January and before yet prices don't come down enough to make sense for tenants (me). What's up with this building? When will they come down off their high Starck horse? Or will they ever?

.

Looks like all the whiners left once Street Easy stopped allowing anonymous postings. Well, it's 17 months since my last posting; my wife and I still own the apartment, still like the finishes, are still renting for a healthy profit, and are still looking to move in when our tenants lease is up. Someone mentioned 90 William. According to this site we are currently (3/31/08) at 255 recorded sales @ 997 avg price per foot, 30 active sales listings @ $1,069 per ft² (avg). 90 William is $866 per and $894 per, respectively. Booya.

So how is Wall Street condo development doing?

All you who post about declines in the prime condo market, give us some specific recent anecdotes.

So, units are selling at almost 600/sqt.. and lots of them..
is there ANY CHANCE this trend will reverse and they will become more valuable in 12 months???????????

nope.

Eurocash,

the only chance of higher prices would be a magical combination of hyper-inflation and low mortgage rates.

Or if dollars crashes "BIG TIME" against Euro and Pound ***AND*** their economies stabilize

"units are selling at almost 600/sqt.. and lots of them"

where are you getting that from?

nothing has been sold below 700.

Ok : the sort answer is I know by talking to the brokers, if you DON"T

Here are the data:

the last 15 units that are reported sold on the SE database do not list a closing price

Currently being offered:

unit 1420 asking $774/psf (1420 sqf 1100K) 25 days on the market

unit 1930 asking $701/psf (1418 sqf 995K) 105 days on the market

Under contract:

unit 1926 asking $765/psf (1430 sqf 1065K) 154 days on the market

These units will sell at almost 600/sqf if they sell, since its a quagmire down there

But I know that some of you need, for professional reasons, to keep on concealing, distorting, lying and cheating. You are just humans,
better Homo brokerensis

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/real-estate-school/How-to-avoid-buying-into-a-bubble#what_ought_a_house_to_be_worth

read it and try to apply it to the building

Eurocash, look at averages RIGHT HERE ON EASYStreet (oops, I think I meant StreetEasy ;).

On 10/25/2009:

44 active sales listings: $1,031 per ft² (avg)
38 active rentals listings: $44 per ft² (avg)
319 previous sales listings: $1,013 per ft² (avg)
276 previous rentals listings: $49 per ft² (avg)
495 recorded sales: $967 per ft² (avg)

Bloggers come and bloggers go, but I'm still renting my apartment for a healthy profit AND my renter just approached ME to buy the apartment for a very healthy return. I declined.

it's a beautiful building and johnsda01 I think that you are right: do not sell now if you don't have to.

john: not so fast lad

On 10/25/2009:

44 active sales listings: $1,031 per ft² (avg) = meaningless
38 active rentals listings: $44 per ft² (avg) = meaningless
319 previous sales listings: $1,013 per ft² (avg) =meaningless
276 previous rentals listings: $49 per ft² (avg) =meaningless
495 recorded sales: $967 per ft² (avg) almost ALL of these occured in 2007...remember, that was the peak of the bubble

go back and run that number for the recorded 2009 sales...paints a little different picture.

john: I did the work for you.

7 sales in 2009
these are the first 6 price per sqft numbers
938,912,817,734,654 and 751

1 unit, #3000 traded at 1,365 per sq. thisis the unit with the massive terrace.

and if thus helps some more.

the 3 units in contract that have yet to close

last ask at contract
874, 851 and 860

it's up to you to decide if they will close at higher or lower than last ask

You could buy a condo with Florida's largest outdoor pool in Starck's downtown miami property. I'd wait for that, although the commute would suck.

I know this is off-topic, but you can get Starck for much cheaper in Miami. As with all of these bubble era buildings, he who waits, wins.

What is the name of the property in Miami?

Icon Brickell methinks.

Saw something in the times that said they have closed 28 units out of 1800, or something truly insane like that. God help you if you are trying closings this year....

Patient09, what type of apartments were those for which you showed the first 6 '09 sales prices? It matters.

On 3/13/10

Listings in contract, PPSF:

$1,349 per ft²
$1,231 per ft²
$898 per ft²
$908 per ft²

Point here is two-fold; the right apartment gets the right price, and unless we've rebounded of '09 prices in a BIG WAY (which I don't think) the avg. PPSF here seems pretty healthy to me.

BUMP. Thinking of buying in this building, good schools and a lot of space, especially in the larger layouts. Considering #3008 - 3BR/3BA, one BR interior suite. Thoughts? Current owners?

Anyone have an idea what will happen to the taxes after abatement?