We are in the process of hiring an architect and/or designer for renovating our apt. We would like to gut renovate 3 bathrooms, expand & renovate the kitchen and also replace old flooring. This will be our first experience with renovation and we are looking for some advice. - Is it better to go with an architecture + design firm. Or, should we hire 2 different firms? Our knowledge/experience... [more]
We are in the process of hiring an architect and/or designer for renovating our apt. We would like to gut renovate 3 bathrooms, expand & renovate the kitchen and also replace old flooring.
This will be our first experience with renovation and we are looking for some advice.
- Is it better to go with an architecture + design firm. Or, should we hire 2 different firms? Our knowledge/experience on either front is minimal, so we would need help on both fronts.
- We have got a huge range of fees from firms we have talked to and are quite confused. What is the current market rate when hiring an A + D firm - is a % of the total construction cost the norm? How does the fee structure work if we hire two different firms for A & D?
- Lastly, if anyone has personal experience with any architects/designer, please recommend!
Thanks in advance for your inputs.
[less]
Response by staciruiz
over 15 years ago
Posts: 38
Member since: Feb 2007
i have a great recommendation for you. e-mail direct staci@studio87.com
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Response by nycbuyer1
over 15 years ago
Posts: 108
Member since: May 2009
If you are not moving walls, etc. you may not even need a separate arch. if you have an experienced designer - not decorator. Pricing depends on the scope of the work. Full service firms oversee the whole project to make sure that contractors, etc. are doing what they are suppossed to do. They also keep you from making mistakes that will cost you more in the long run. I used to think it was a waste of money until I did a full renovation. All of the decisions and coordinating can be a nightmare.... especially in NYC apartments.
Contact Graydon Design 212-355-9766. They have been it for years in NYC. They are also fair and transparent in their pricing. They did my last apartment and are finishing up my current one. Good Luck!
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Response by stakan
over 15 years ago
Posts: 319
Member since: Apr 2008
nycbuyer1 is correct: no moving walls equals no architect.
I think the prices are around $1000/room, could be more for kitchen.
The one I know is ip@lightandairdesign.com
1.“gut renovation, expand kitchen” means you need an architect. You can hire different firms if you see a interior designer you really like but who is not a licensed architect. Or you can hire an architect who does interior design also. I can't say which one is better than the other, but usually architects are needed at the beginning of project, interior designer/decorator can com in the latter phase of the project.
2.There is no standard in terms of architectural service or design service fee. Percentage of total construction cost is very normal. If you hire 2 different firm, you will receive proposals from each firm with their own scope of work and you need to make sure they don't overlay and cover everything.
Hiring 2 different firms, there will be some coordination/managing work at your end unless you assign the responsibility to one of them.
I am a licensed architect and I have interior designers on the team. You can contact me at generative.arch@gmail.com if you have further questions.
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Response by Reno09
over 15 years ago
Posts: 45
Member since: Jan 2009
I think there are 3 categories - There are designers who design/spec/layout everything and just use an architect to draft the paperwork necessary for DOB filings. The architect fee in this case is minimal, and you end up paying more to the design firm in the form of a design fee plus maybe commission on purchases. Then there are architects who are more involved in the planning process and make "design" decisions, such as kitchen design, plumbing fixture and tile selection, door casing and baseboard style, etc., but doesn't go as far as furniture, etc. These architects typically charge a % of construction cost but they also generally stick with you through the construction process, monitoring the contractor and adherence to plans. Lastly, there are design + architecture firms. The fee structure really varies in this case.
I think what works best for you depends on what you're renovating. I just completed a whole apt gut renovation. I was a first time renovator too. I went with an architect (paying a % of construction fee), and got a designer toward the end of the project to help me with furniture and finishings like wallpaper, window treatments, etc. (paying a design fee plus commission). Being a complete gut, my project had a lot of technical issues that required the technical expertise of an architect. I found an excellent architect who had a design aesthetic I liked (just look at their portfolio).
If I were you, I might do things differently. It depends on what you mean when you say "gut renovating" 3 bathrooms and kitchen. If you're moving things around in the bathrooms, taking down walls, etc. I might go for the architect. If you're just looking for someone to pick tiles and faucets, etc., but aren't planning on rearranging the bathroom, then a designer alone might be just fine. As for the kitchen, I found that most kitchen manufacturers have in-house designers. For ex., I used Henry Built and they had an architect on staff who was fantastic, knowledgeable, and drew up all the plans. My architect did act as a second set of eyes to make sure that all the locations for appliances, sink, etc. would work with our plumbing and electrical systems, which was useful.
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Response by Primer05
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Uptown,
What i have learned over the years it is much better to keep things under one roof. When using a different architect, designer and contractor you can be caught in a sticky situation. Lets say there is a mistake (I assure you there will be) who is to blame? Most people to not like to take credit for that, the end result, it could cost you money. If you hire a firm, the firm is responable. The project also will go a lot easier if everyone knows each, they will not step on anyones toes.
With that said, what usually happens on projects like these is this:
You hire a designer, and they will bring in their architect to do the drawings. The designer, should know a contractor or two that they like to use and will recommend them
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Response by 5thGenNYer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 321
Member since: Apr 2009
Reno09 makes good points.
Most designers charge a % of the work- usually 25-35%. Some work with architects who just charge a flat fee. If you dont have a designer that can do all the specs and the legwork for choosing the furnishings/decorating than its not worth it i think just to pay someone to pick out your furniture. You want someone who really has some sort of handle on architecture/engineering but with a sense of design as well as sometimes architects are just more about making a building stand vs. making it look nice.
And as far as "per room" work goes- i'd say about $100-200/sq foot depending on if the renvoation is high end or not.
In this economy most designers are leaning towards charging by the hour, that could be anywhere from $100-$300.00 an hour.
$100 sq ft. is very unrealistic unless you are using a handyman or its a commericial space that doesnt need to be very good looking.
A highend project could be as much as $700 sq ft if not more but we are talking perfection. Most of my clients are in the general area of $250-$350 sq ft but it really depends on what finishes you are buying, is the tub a WET tub that cost $4,000.00 Are you getting a subzero $5,200.00
i have a great recommendation for you. e-mail direct staci@studio87.com
If you are not moving walls, etc. you may not even need a separate arch. if you have an experienced designer - not decorator. Pricing depends on the scope of the work. Full service firms oversee the whole project to make sure that contractors, etc. are doing what they are suppossed to do. They also keep you from making mistakes that will cost you more in the long run. I used to think it was a waste of money until I did a full renovation. All of the decisions and coordinating can be a nightmare.... especially in NYC apartments.
Contact Graydon Design 212-355-9766. They have been it for years in NYC. They are also fair and transparent in their pricing. They did my last apartment and are finishing up my current one. Good Luck!
nycbuyer1 is correct: no moving walls equals no architect.
I think the prices are around $1000/room, could be more for kitchen.
The one I know is ip@lightandairdesign.com
You can find some more uptown options (juding by your username??) at this Harlem real estate website, Harlem Properties.
Here's the link to local interior designers:
http://www.harlemproperties.com/buying-property/local-services/harlem-interior-designers
And GC's:
http://www.harlemproperties.com/buying-property/local-services/harlem-general-contractors
1.“gut renovation, expand kitchen” means you need an architect. You can hire different firms if you see a interior designer you really like but who is not a licensed architect. Or you can hire an architect who does interior design also. I can't say which one is better than the other, but usually architects are needed at the beginning of project, interior designer/decorator can com in the latter phase of the project.
2.There is no standard in terms of architectural service or design service fee. Percentage of total construction cost is very normal. If you hire 2 different firm, you will receive proposals from each firm with their own scope of work and you need to make sure they don't overlay and cover everything.
Hiring 2 different firms, there will be some coordination/managing work at your end unless you assign the responsibility to one of them.
I am a licensed architect and I have interior designers on the team. You can contact me at generative.arch@gmail.com if you have further questions.
I think there are 3 categories - There are designers who design/spec/layout everything and just use an architect to draft the paperwork necessary for DOB filings. The architect fee in this case is minimal, and you end up paying more to the design firm in the form of a design fee plus maybe commission on purchases. Then there are architects who are more involved in the planning process and make "design" decisions, such as kitchen design, plumbing fixture and tile selection, door casing and baseboard style, etc., but doesn't go as far as furniture, etc. These architects typically charge a % of construction cost but they also generally stick with you through the construction process, monitoring the contractor and adherence to plans. Lastly, there are design + architecture firms. The fee structure really varies in this case.
I think what works best for you depends on what you're renovating. I just completed a whole apt gut renovation. I was a first time renovator too. I went with an architect (paying a % of construction fee), and got a designer toward the end of the project to help me with furniture and finishings like wallpaper, window treatments, etc. (paying a design fee plus commission). Being a complete gut, my project had a lot of technical issues that required the technical expertise of an architect. I found an excellent architect who had a design aesthetic I liked (just look at their portfolio).
If I were you, I might do things differently. It depends on what you mean when you say "gut renovating" 3 bathrooms and kitchen. If you're moving things around in the bathrooms, taking down walls, etc. I might go for the architect. If you're just looking for someone to pick tiles and faucets, etc., but aren't planning on rearranging the bathroom, then a designer alone might be just fine. As for the kitchen, I found that most kitchen manufacturers have in-house designers. For ex., I used Henry Built and they had an architect on staff who was fantastic, knowledgeable, and drew up all the plans. My architect did act as a second set of eyes to make sure that all the locations for appliances, sink, etc. would work with our plumbing and electrical systems, which was useful.
Uptown,
What i have learned over the years it is much better to keep things under one roof. When using a different architect, designer and contractor you can be caught in a sticky situation. Lets say there is a mistake (I assure you there will be) who is to blame? Most people to not like to take credit for that, the end result, it could cost you money. If you hire a firm, the firm is responable. The project also will go a lot easier if everyone knows each, they will not step on anyones toes.
With that said, what usually happens on projects like these is this:
You hire a designer, and they will bring in their architect to do the drawings. The designer, should know a contractor or two that they like to use and will recommend them
Reno09 makes good points.
Most designers charge a % of the work- usually 25-35%. Some work with architects who just charge a flat fee. If you dont have a designer that can do all the specs and the legwork for choosing the furnishings/decorating than its not worth it i think just to pay someone to pick out your furniture. You want someone who really has some sort of handle on architecture/engineering but with a sense of design as well as sometimes architects are just more about making a building stand vs. making it look nice.
And as far as "per room" work goes- i'd say about $100-200/sq foot depending on if the renvoation is high end or not.
I can reccommend Design by Francois, LLC - www.francoistenenbaum.com
In this economy most designers are leaning towards charging by the hour, that could be anywhere from $100-$300.00 an hour.
$100 sq ft. is very unrealistic unless you are using a handyman or its a commericial space that doesnt need to be very good looking.
A highend project could be as much as $700 sq ft if not more but we are talking perfection. Most of my clients are in the general area of $250-$350 sq ft but it really depends on what finishes you are buying, is the tub a WET tub that cost $4,000.00 Are you getting a subzero $5,200.00
It all depends