Obama Freezes Pay of Govt. Workers

Please. Private sector employees would kill for a wage freeze instead of being laid off like they have.

Sate and municipal workers have been laid off by the thousands. Govt. workers are not immune to anything.

we've had wage cuts and layoffs. I still make less than what I did in 2007.

So find another job. Google just aunnoced 10% wage hikes.

ultimately public employees will be paid as much as private employees can afford to pay them. the concern policy wise is how to implement policies that increase both wages and discretionary income from wages at the private sector.

> Sate and municipal workers have been laid off by the thousands.

And here in NYC, tons got HUGE raises in addition to their rediculous pensions.

When alpo pays Goldman Sachs salaries, he can complain about them.

When we are all paying for government salaries, its our call.
If the whiny workers don't like their salaries, they can look for employment elsewhere.

> Govt. workers are not immune to anything.

Sure they are... they're immune from market dynamics, from their own poor performance, from being held accountable..... tons of immunity.

i don't know what the freeze really means in terms of wage losses. are fed wages indexed by inflation? if so it's only a 2% cut for 2 years if inflation remains "too low". or did they have contracts that guaranteed much higher annual wage increases regardless of inflation levels?

"When alpo pays Goldman Sachs salaries, he can complain about them."

Citi and AIG have still not paid back 100% of their bailout money. So I am paying their salaries. So are you. And so is everyone else on SE.

"Sure they are... they're immune from market dynamics, from their own poor performance, from being held accountable..... tons of immunity."

You certainly described Wall St. CEOs pretty well. Why isn't Dick Fuld living in the back of a Ford Taurus yet?

"And here in NYC, tons got HUGE raises in addition to their rediculous pensions."

Don't you think that the TSA screeners who stand between you and Al Qaeda should make more than $17 an hour? TSA screeners are actually one of the lowest paid federal workers.

public union parasites need pay rollbacks.. these community college parasites pimp taxpayers by having them contribute to their own benefits and pension plans..

can I participate in COLA pensions that don't go down like 401(k)'s but stay FLAT during bad years and continue to rise well above inflation and the DOWJ while others contribute into it??

oh wait, those retirement vehicles are only for union public workers.. mehh

still boggles my mind that teachers across the river in NJ don't contribute a DIME to their own expensive family health plans..

meanwhile NJ's Teachers Union Director earned $550,000 by pimping teachers and taxpayers.. just another 'middle class' union worker..using kids as shields, ew

furthermore, why the hell do public union workers always compare themselves to CEO's??

uhm,, your position is in public SERVICE.. if you wanted to make a million as CEO why not be one??

what if I told my boss LLoyd pulled in another $45MM and he should match just at least half that.. i'd be fired..

with federal workers it's damn near impossible to be fired..

case in point my neighbor is with D.O.D.. his NJ office is moving down to Rhode Island, he told DOD he wants to stay in DOD - DOD will put him on full year payroll in the NJ office to accommodate this request by paying him a FULL YEAR SALARY with benefits, and accruing pension while they try to find a position for him in NJ..

a year of full salary/benefits/pension to sit on his ass and watch youtube vids.. we still grab a beer time to time but even he knows how dumb the program is..

his co-worker took it a step further, by accepting the relocation to RI, then demanding to be placed in same project in NJ so that he wouldn't have to sell his house and move to RI..

therefore he gets daily expense reimbursements for food/lodging since technically his home base is now in RI, yet he still reports to the same place in NJ...

he just cashes the housing expense reimbursements since he doesn't even use that for hotel/lodging.. all at taxpayers' dime..peeeeemp

If solid, reliable pensions are only for union public workers, it's because right-wing activist judges allowed them to be discontinued for existing workers at private employers, which of course made it so much easier not to offer them to new employees.

And what's the point to seeking contributions to employer-provided health plans, when the contributions just come from salaries paid by the same employer? How stupid is that?

401(k) plans were first offered to rank-and-file employees in 1981 ... defined-benefit pensions were nearly universal at large and mid-sized private employers before that. Your inaction in fighting that trend allowed that to degrade to the hopeless and fearful situation we have now. Unions were not as lazy or foolish.

See http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1929119-2,00.html

"Congress was trying to close a loophole on executive bonuses when it created the 401(k). Most companies intended 401(k)s — which were originally called salary-reduction plans but then renamed for the portion of the tax code that makes them possible — to be a perk for highly paid executives, not a pension replacement. That's because lower-paid employees probably could not afford to defer a portion of their paychecks. So companies held on to their pension systems even as they added 401(k)s, which by law they had to make available to all employees. When the market took off in the 1980s, the rank and file clamored to get in."

Govt workers should be paid less than private workers, because they have
1) more job security
2) better retirement benefits
3) better work conditions and hours
4) they are generally less qualified(exceptions at the higher tiers where they make less but this is
comprises a relatively small percent of the public work force)

On average, federal employees are more educated than the total private sector segment to which they are compared. Also, those generous pensions only apply to workers hired before mid-1980s. Job security is a major benefit.

Liberals make some of the most backward, shameless arguments. Government union workers are sucking taxpayers dry with high pay, ridiculous open-ended lifetime pensions, and free healthcare, all paid by taxpayers. At least with defined contribution plans a business can measure its costs effectively and it pays for production, not for early retirement and who-knows-how-long expenses.

This comparison to millionaires and billionaires is just dumb. Tax every millionaire at 90% and you still won't fix the budget. Control government labor costs at reasonable, fair levels that make sense, and we will go a long way to getting back strong economic growth.

Basically the public service employer has far less demands placed on it to deliver product efficiently and at low price. There's no wonder compensation gets out of whack.

uhmm, nice try alanhart..

if you put it in other words, gov't parasites (and i have 2 in my immediate family) have been campaigning non-stop to have OTHER people pay for their own benefits/pensions directly via taxes..

you make it seem like this money is born from thin air and not transferring from one worker to another..

Its amazing how quickly things change; I work in government (non-union) and five years ago I was told it was foolish to go to grad school for an MPA and choose a career in the public sector, now I am a blood sucking leech who is robbing the taxpayers.

at least you know you're a bloated thief

corlearshook, how dare you expect some return from an MPA. really.

our communities should run themselves. no need for anyone who makes a semi-decent living to be a part of government planning. give the jobs to damned dirty apes and be done with it.

communities are just a few letters away from ... Communists!!! We need to live in isolationist silos, each man an island, fight to the death, survival of the fattest, step on fingers on the way up the ladder, grab the brass ring and swap it for the gold one when the little people aren't watching, knock that nonworking old lady down and steal her purse

Communists!!!, I tell ya -- tip of the iceberg

"3) better work conditions and hours
4) they are generally less qualified(exceptions at the higher tiers where they make less but this is
comprises a relatively small percent of the public work force)"

23% of the private sector work force has a bachelors degree, vs. 48% of the govt. work force.

Better working conditions and hours? How many private sector workers have cmparable working conditions as cops, firemen, and sanitation workers?

"can I participate in COLA pensions that don't go down like 401(k)'s but stay FLAT during bad years and continue to rise well above inflation and the DOWJ while others contribute into it??

oh wait, those retirement vehicles are only for union public workers.. mehh"

I don't know where you get your propaganda from, but it is complete bull. My father's MTA pension has no COLA increase whatsoever.

I actually agree with everyone else. Govt. workers are over paid. Let's lower the salary of cops and firemen to $8 an hour. Let's see how much crime goes up and how many hours it takes for a firetruck to come and rescue you from your burning death trap 5th floor walk up.

"My father's MTA pension has no COLA increase whatsoever."

explains it, papa works for the MTA??

MTA supervisors faked subway inspections
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/subway_danger_over_faked_inspections_b9mytUJpYyVCvoL1Hhv8qO

"The 100 or so managers, who don't earn overtime, make up to $165,000 a year."

explains the nonstop vomit rhetoric from your public union mouth...

other news, subway fares up :)

pres, read a bit more closely.

firemen deserve early retirement. there should be an incentive to keep them working, for example in forensics, but many firefighters do not have that mentality. and thankfully so. you have to be a bit insane to be a firefighter. and you're physically not able to pass the tests at a fairly young age comparatively.

50 year olds can't generally do the job.

Why are you putting managers in the same boat as rank and file workers?

Look, gov't provides many essential services. Many who work in gov't are smart and hard working. But same as in the private sector some are over-paid. But regardless. there's a subset of gov't workers who after working twenty plus years are able to retire with huge pensions that the tax base cannot afford. If retirees lived ten years it wouldn't be an issue. People live longer, the system has to change.

actually, pres, you're right, that's hilarious.

the "100 or so managers" make up to a WHOPPING $165k a year. of course they don't say what the bottom of the bottom of the 100 or so managers make.

ok, rs, tell future firefighters that they will be employed for about fifteen-twenty years at decent but not super pay and then they will get almost nothing after routinely risking their lives in one of the most dangerous jobs out there.

"People live longer, the system has to change."

Minorities and the poor are not living much longer.

ell future firefighters that they will be employed for about fifteen-twenty years at decent but not super pay and then they will get almost nothing after routinely risking their lives in one of the most dangerous jobs out there.

more champagne socialism?

really? when the kid was in pre-school we had a summer visit to the firefighter info center (non-technical term, obviously) in rockefeller center.

ray, a firefighter who probably was of retirement age, taught our daughter to drop and roll, and also how to determine if it was safe to move and how to do so.

he died in the 9/11 rescue attempts.

fuck you riversider.

Fire fighters provide a valuable community service. You don't.

you don't provide anything, tool.

so is it champagne socialism to support the fire fighters? which you implied six minutes ago? or do they provide something valuable that we should pay for? do they deserve early pensions as most are only fit to serve for a certain number of years before their agility and response time may be compromised?

f'ng asshole.

No. only when you do it.

Senator, may we not drop this? Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator.

tool.

aboutready
3 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse you don't provide anything, tool.

What do you provide? You don't provide mothering. You don't provide support to your husband. You don't work. You contribute some to a blog that is redundant to streeteasy. Anything else?

what an idiot, you bypass the fact that those MTA workers FAKED subway inspection..

but since you're too much of a union parasite to not even focus on work done just salaries..

the article states NON-MANAGERS making $127,000 FOR WORK NOT BEING PERFORMED.. even if they got paid $30,000, the work wasn't being performed..

pres,

here's a list of MTA salaries of NON-MANAGERS fom seethruny.com which lists agencies salaries..

http://mtasalaries.com/

how does a car repairman making $63,000 BASE SALARY end up with $283,618 for that same YEAR after OVERTIME??

yes $283,618 is "fair" wage.. what a leech.

"how does a car repairman making $63,000 BASE SALARY end up with $283,618 for that same YEAR after OVERTIME??"

Because he never used any of his sick days and cashed them all in. That's how.

so you think $283,618 for a subway car repairman is "fair" wage???

per year

and your silly MTA website proves NOTHING. Not a single person on the list works for NYC Transit. You see, the MTA has many different divisions, with Metro North and LIRR being the best paid. This is because the MEtro North and LIRR are all white, while NYC Transit (the subway and city bus) are all minority workers.

ss400, I would differentiate. Clearly there's fat. then there's underpaid people with skills who maintain the system, but lack skills that transfer to the private sector, and then there are those with no skills who are paid based on union threats.

where does it say in the article he didn't use any sick days? or is that more vomit twisting and turning from your parasite public union mouth

It's called "deferred compensation" ... not to be confused with "golden parachute", the vehicle of parasitic wasps.

pres,

you stated your dad worked for the MTA..

the salaries i posted are from sethruny.com ALL FROM THE MTA, regardless of division, it's still MTA..

stop trying to twist out of the question..

do you think $283,618 is "fair" earnings for a subway car repairman??

do you think the fare increase is well.. fair, considering how much not only this one example earns but thousands within the MTA earn?

F.T. called it " SYMBOLIC". The elephant in the room is pensions.

others making over 200k..and with job titles

Ronald Dunne made ($64,865) Made $136,439 in overtime down from $220,643 last year. Total salary $201,304. Car repairman.

Michael Shurman ($71,596) Probably retired. Made $204,348 overtime last year of work. Total salary $275,944. Car Inspector.

Michael Visceglia ($64,865) made $143,628 down from $211,987 last year. Total salary $208,493. Car repairman.

Shelton Bethea ($73,193) Probably retired. Made $168,132 overtime 2008. Total salary $241,325. Conductor.

Robert Ceparo ($73,193) Probably retired. Made $156,858 overtime last year of work. Total salary $230,051. Conductor.

Donald Brooks ($62,976) Probably retired. Made $166,973 overtime last year of work. Total salary $229,949. Car repairman.

that's not even a quarter of the list...

damn $229,000 for a car repairman.. hopefully us plebeian strap-hangers will have another fare increase to accommodate these "earnings."

alanhart, NICE TRYING TO MAKE IT SEEM the $200k++ earnings are a one-time case.. more public union drivel vomit..

OVER 8,000 MTA EMPLOYEES MADE OVER $100,000
http://gothamist.com/2010/06/04/mta_salaries_like_239148_for_a_cond.php

"Mr. Redmond, the retired conductor, was the eighth-highest paid employee in the entire authority, ranking 16 spots higher than his railroad’s executive vice president. He earned $67,772 in base salary and $67,000 in overtime, and collected nearly $100,000 in unused sick days and vacation time upon retirement, railroad officials said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/nyregion/03mta.html

"the salaries i posted are from sethruny.com ALL FROM THE MTA, regardless of division, it's still MTA.."

Not a single high salary was posted from NYC Transit. (My father worked at NYC Transit, FYI). The Pakistani guy making the aunnocements on the C train is not making $100k or anything close to it, and you are delusional if you think he is.

Nothing inspires confidence in data like "Probably retired."

you haven't answered the simple yes or no questions posted above..

do you think $283,618 is "fair" earnings for a subway car repairman??

do you find the MTA hikes fair given these MTA earnings?

Sigh I miss the old days of a free market and limited government in New York City...

Remember back when you could land a nice municipal job simply by beating enough drunk Irish to get them to the polls and being rewarded by the 4th Ward party boss with a nice government job. Of course living in a free market housing system with a nice new municipal job you could move out of that tenement you shared with 11 other people 80 feet off Cherry Street in the Gotham Court Rookery and move into a nice rear wood framed building apartment you share with 5 other people on Vandewater Street next to the Soap and Candle factory at the end of Cliff Street. (Of course once the next election cycle took place you would lose your job to whoever supported the new 4th Ward Boss and be back on the streets)

Ah the good days when it was truly a free and fair system.

Sounds like Long Island City (also known as Zero Points).

Such hatred for Long Island City.

Did you get thrown off a Jet Blue flight or something?

aboutready, no one cares about you taking your child to a firefighter info center.

ss, if a person works for government, it is fair for them to be paid up to a million dollars a year, no matter what they do, and to retire at age 40 and get a lifetime pension, all paid by evil private sector workers who work for evil corporations. Why can't you understand that liberal logic?

She's making up the story.

Even alanhart knows that 4 years is the maximum period you are allowed to mourn 9-11. Isn't that right alanhart? 4 years to get through High School, so 4 years to mourn a loved one.

Is anyone on here disputing the fact that public employee benefits in nyc are totally out of control, far in excess of what one can get in the private sector, and a major factor in the financial problems of the city?

[one friend is just about to complete 5 years as an psychiatrist working for the city, at which point he will qualify for lifetime health benefits...that is absurd]

By the way...isn't the fiscal situation here a component of the "bear" arguments?

By the way, why don't you post under you real name?

Real name?

Why don't you post under the real county in which you live?

> Without congressional action, federal employees would automatically get a 0.9 percent increase under the formula set by a 1990 law. They received a 1.9 percent pay increase this year.

well... is a 1% cut for 2 years worth all that much kicking and screaming from feds? if inflation was high is another issue, but a freeze in this scenario is pretty meaningless imho

Time for a bump... Let's revisit yet another Riversider comment:

"Govt workers should be paid less than private workers, because they have
3) better work conditions and hours"

Police Deaths Jump 37 Percent In 2010

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/28/police-deaths-2010_n_801901.html

But then again, maybe Riversider is right. Maybe Wall St. i-bankers are getting shot at while at work. Maybe BigLaw associates are getting stabbed on a daily basis. Or maybe Riversider is full of hot air.

Socialist... are you really trying to prove the point by comparing different jobs?

Teachers make more than my privately employed paperboy.

How about you compare the death rate of police officers vs. private security forces. Or mercenaries. ;-)

If there were public employees who could generate banking profits, I would pay them more.

That article also gave more detail:
Last year's toll of 117 officers killed was a 50-year low that encouraged police groups. But this year's total is more the norm than an anomaly: The number of police deaths has topped 160 five times since 2000, including 240 in 2001. The annual toll routinely topped 200 in the 1970s and before that in the 1920s.
The deaths were spread across more than 30 states and Puerto Rico – with the most killings reported in Texas, California, Illinois, Florida and Georgia. The two law enforcement agencies with the most deaths were the California Highway Patrol and the Chicago Police Department, each with five.

But no one wants police officers hurt or killed. Still, not sure what relevance this has. How does the rate of death among employees of the Department of Energy compare with workers on the Deepwater Horizon?

apparently some or higher.

and some are lower.