Monthly fees rise steadily for apartment owners

This, of course, will have no impact on renters

This thread is actually a good opportunity to see what's going on, anecdotally, out there for the owning community on StreetEasy. Anyone care to offer what's going on with their common charges for 2011? Ours will remain flat once again.

Flat

The coop fees include taxes and mortgages while the condos do not. It's a zero sum game for owners. There's no middle man extracting a profit, which means long term the owner should come out ahead, but on a short term the rents may contract and imply less profit or a loss on the part of the building/owner.

We all know the following
Rents contracted during the past few years.
Long term businesses operate at a profit or shut down.
More people are choosing to rent versus own.
Economy is officially out of recession and the economic picture is improving( not a lot but improving)

My bet is rents increase going forward at a faster rate than they have, unless of course you are lucky enough to be in a project or other rent stabilized,controlled situation.

Gas & Eletric really isn't going up...The piece may not be 100% right.

agree with riversider....first concessions dissapear then rents tick up.

and therse boards are usually full of blow-hard, know-nothings, but jesus christ, i have never heard a more ignorant statement than monthly fee increases "of course have no impact on renters"...hahahaha. dude, 'tarded of you to not think your LL won't pass these costs onto you.

> This, of course, will have no impact on renters

After years of talking about fixed supply and high demand, are we suddenly changing gears entirely and saying that landlords have been pricing based on *cost*?

I don't buy it at all for Manhattan. Folks are pricing on what they can get for quite some time.
The restricted ability to build that bulls have been chirping on for so long is exactly what has removed cost.

Remember, costs have been going up for a couple years (per this, and the last round of articles about a year ago)... much of that with rents dropping significantly.

Add on top of that, buyers haven't been buying on capitalization rates, they've been buying on anticipation of increases.

> 'tarded of you to not think your LL won't pass these costs onto you

They'll try.

But you're forgetting that landlords have been trying to pass through any increases they can get. For free market apartments, they'll try to price to get the maximum amount, even if their costs happened to go down.

Fact is, costs increased even when rents go down.

You can't ignore market dynamics.

> My bet is rents increase going forward at a faster rate than they have

I say they go with what they've pretty much always done over long periods... move with income. We haven't seen meaningful increases yet. Wouldn't be surprised if we do next year, but it hasn't happened yet.

who cares! let me tip my super, nanny and everyone else! Tips should also be going up 10% to be in line with all other increases.

"After years of talking about fixed supply and high demand, are we suddenly changing gears entirely and saying that landlords have been pricing based on *cost*?"

Wait a minute, aren't rents determined by incomes? What is this supply and demand stuff?

im with elsewhere on this

it's about what the rental market will bear, not costs

landlords will charge the max they can, adjusted for their concerns with occupancy and turnover, whether costs go up or down

and they will add to costs to improve properties where they see fit

rents are still negotiable and until the job market improves, or the dollar drops, I don't see that changing very much.

But of course landlords can ask whatever they want, doesn't mean they'll get it. I've seen the same apt for 6 wks sit on the mkt. I undercut with a bid I believe to be reasonable, 18% less than ask. Landlord said nothing. Then cut it by 10%, my bid goes away at the end of next week. The apt won't rent for ask, it will be vacant for another 4-6 wks, and the landlord would have been better to hit my bid. His loss.

Point being, there's a lot of product out there to rent, if it's not priced right, it will sit and sit.

Manhattan’s rental market has reportedly softened a bit since the last report. Rents remain stable, but landlords are, once again, offering concessions (such as one or more month’s free rent), though these discounts are not as steep as in 2009. A substantial amount of new housing in the pipeline is likely to be offered as rentals.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-01/u-s-federal-reserve-beige-book-new-york-district-text-.html

Wbottom, I'm not sure it's an either/or situation though, is it? Operating costs must have some bearing on rental costs, though I'd certainly agree that there are other factors.

What are underlying building mortgage rates at these days? Any benefit If a 10yr note is coming due today?

The owners costs enter into his/her expectations when setting rent. A willingness to rent at a loss may occur over the short to medium term, but it will not occur indefinitely.

The trend is that cc & maintnc will increase. So, assume prices will decrease due to increased carrying costs.

And yet builders are choosing to create more rental housing.
The Ashley, Glenwood just inked a deal to build near Fordham, and the Aire is filling up

When do you suppose Glenwood will be done building the high rise on the property that they announced they acquired today?

In other news, the American manufacturing industry has announced a remarkable comeback by introducing a new program of paasing on its higher labor costs to consumers. Walmart was caught flatfooted by the announcement while Chinese authorities expressed exasperation about this undermining of the basic laws of economics.

"The trend is that cc & maintnc will increase. So, assume prices will decrease due to increased carrying costs."

more meaningless drivel couched nicely in whatever vaccum dwell seems to be sucked into.

"the trend is that der der der der....."

my CC's haven't increased one red cent - in two different buldings - for six years (4 bubble, 2 recession).

come to the table with something concrete dwell. jesus.

what kind of madness is occurring in this thread for people to outrightedly deny that rent does nto build in costs - AT ALL...let alone when they're rising. sure, last year, not the case...but that has come and gone. no more concessions and flat to rising rents are back in business.

Both my RE tax & water bills have gone up. And, as mentioned elsewhere, I don't argue with idiots, so I bid thee adieu.

ahh. a coop owner. apparently, you're the idiot. and NOW i know why you think its cheaper to rent than buy....

Hey coop owners - why own a share in corrupt-ran corporations when you can live the low common charges life and ownership in fee simple baby! no propietary leases in our buildings. no evictions for objectionable behavior. live with your propoerty rights intact!

Please, I can tell a fake news story. There is no "American manufacturing industry"

hey dwell - did i mention that the taxes won't rise on my tax abted units for the next 25 years and 15 years respectively?

condoprez, didn't anyone tell you that your "home"s price will drop dollar for dollar for each year you enjoy your abatement.... FLMAOz.

Condoprez, pls tell me at least you are a borker, at least I can understand a borker prez, but a man w/ career, wife, kids, activities... WTF would you do it? Oh I know (raising hand), so the doorman knows your NAME!

Beyonce', "say my name, say my name.... "

Listen listen... about that RENT bullshit... we have fixed # of units, low end getting crushed w/ unemployment, ppl being forced to sell..... this is ALL INVENTORY, and income ain't rising, SO=> RENTS FALLS, riverfker and condoprez... TAKE ECON 101 with a side of reality.

FLMAOz...... gotta go play with my 50 footer.....

w67th....take yer head out of abstract land and come play in reality....

tale of two condos...

1) purchased 550K (80 LTV) in 2005, appraised 660K in feb. 2008, then just 570K about two weeks ago (currently rented to tenants)...25 year abatement ($30/month tax payment)

2) purchased 670K in 2008 (85 ltv), then appraised three weeks ago for 680K....15 year abatement ($80/month tax payment)

w67th....c'mon, yer about 25 making about 55K base and some paltry 10-30 bonus (if your lucky) at some cold-call shop with a SUNY binghampton degree. yer parents co-signed yer lease. your girlfriend makes you walk that pathetic miniature dog and buy her 'lil 400 coach bags that torch your that pidly 1500 biweekly salary payment.....living the life brother. living the life.

40, $375K gross, $1MM in cash, $10MM in commercial.residential, 2x$400K trust fund for kids, wife doc (head of group) $400K gross (Ivy MD), Ivy MBA, 50 footer racing sailboat (thank you FDIC).

More importantly, can understand that the bottom is about to be pulled from the 1bdrm mkt in manhattan.

It is my theory, that we are playing a game of musical chairs. Ppl w/ actual jobs and income acted as so => 2bdrm buyers moved to 3bdrms, now 1bdrm buyers are seeking 2bdrms... LEAVING NO MORE buyers for 1bdrms. 1bdrms take hit, since 1bdrms and studios are the BASE of NYC RE, 2/3 bdrms NEED to fall to bring back to equilibrium. AND a higher interest rate just accelerates the process.

Watch, sniff my finger and learn... .BOARD PREZ. fking loser, lame no friends ninny.

hahahah. what a joke.

get aprticular with your commercial and residential. curious.

40, $375K gross, $1MM in cash, $10MM in commercial.residential, 2x$400K trust fund for kids, wife doc (head of group) $400K gross (Ivy MD), Ivy MBA, 50 footer racing sailboat (thank you FDIC), inappropriately nude around children, wife "touched by thousands".

Riversider...you're correct...LL's are lowering prices and giving free months, paying broker's fees, etc...except stuytown which just raised their prices to over $3k.

Pres. Nothing personal. Having been on some boards due to my commercial holdings, I find all board members to be self serving foolz or just ppl with too much time on their hands. I bring a pillow and a stiff drinks with me to the meetings. Note I am required to show up when it concerns only my interests.

I bring a pillow and a stiff drinks with me to the meetings. Note I am required to show up when it concerns only my interests.

your residents are very lucky to have you.

SO you had to out yourself

and w67th is on a condo "board as a result of his interest in commercial holdings"...jesus, what a SUNY Bing'r

Wow! You figured all that out?

Hey CondoPresident, let me ask you a couple questions:

1 - are you inappropriately nude around children other than a Rolex?
2 - if your spouse's parent died while you were on vacation, would you remain on vacation?
3 - do you write an anti-Israel blog under www.yourrealname.net?
4 - when you get angry at someone, do you roll over that person's foot with your Rollator?

if you answered YES to any of the above, then you belong on streeteasy

Ours is going up 6%.....bj AND Juiceman.....congrats on "FLAT".....whereabouts do you live.....and what gives with no increase....arent your labor costs going up as well? Anyone actually know what the new 4 yr contract increases are?

Mhillqt, I'm in a condo in Williamsburg. We've been pretty good with our budget - we're paying our super and management more, so we'll have a bit less going into reserves, but not yet necessary to raise the monthlies. At some point, I'm sure we'll have to, but not yet. We've been fortunate.

As a Harpur College graduate, I get the feeling that these posts have been disparaging of the great, economy oriented, ivy - free, bastion of higher education situated in the sunny Southern Tier. What gives?

> Wait a minute, aren't rents determined by incomes? What is this supply and demand stuff?

Juice, are you being serious here?

Income is the primary drive of the demand curve.

"A willingness to rent at a loss may occur over the short to medium term, but it will not occur indefinitely."

Sometimes it does. What are the choices if the market doesn't bear it.... you suck it up, or you move in yourself, or you sell it.

> Sometimes it does. What are the choices if the market doesn't bear it.... you suck it up, or you move in yourself, or you sell it.

not everybody can or is willing to take the big hit, so it's death by a thousand cuts. at least when rented the losses are cut as some of the carrying costs are covered. it'd be interesting to know for how are the wanna be RE investors holding on to their investment property with negative cash flow.

notadmin, good points. This is why I don't think it makes sense to go the traditional 20% down and leverage the rest when you're going strictly investment. If you're stretching yourself to just get to 20%, you're pretty much asking for trouble.

Condopres--heartwarming story:
"tale of two penny-ante shltholes"

what a loser!!

get some equity dude--must be your 680K place is a palace--

and wtf is your problem with binghamton? seems wherever you went didnt get you anywhere

enjoy the dump you live in!!

"not everybody can or is willing to take the big hit, so it's death by a thousand cuts. at least when rented the losses are cut as some of the carrying costs are covered. it'd be interesting to know for how are the wanna be RE investors holding on to their investment property with negative cash flow."

Totally. If you are cash flow positive, you are probably more willing to let it ride. But the folks who have to shell out each month even when renting out, pain thresholds will clearly be tested.

oh...and elsewhere, you are spot on--regardless of costs, if a place cant be rented because it is priced too high, given the market, it gets rented at a loss, or sits empty

most entertaining to hear of condos where monthlies dont increase over time at least at rate of inflation

"most entertaining to hear of condos where monthlies dont increase over time at least at rate of inflation"

Over a longer period of time they do - I don't think anyone here claimed otherwise. Mine happen to have been flat since 08. Not sure why you find that entertaining.

I prefer condos/coops that up the charges a little every year, even if there was no spike that particular year in operating costs, to prevent the pain of big increases every few years, or more likely big increases for a flight of years and then no increases for a few. And a little extra recharge of contingency and capital reserves isn't usually such a bad thing.

My coop maintenance increased by 45% over the course of two years, which is fine for me because it increased from a very low base and is still reasonable ... but it caused many of my fellow owners great pain, and now they're excessively resistant to even minor increases.

alan, those are really good points. I would probably favor small, gradual increases as well, though we're too young to know how things will turn out when we do need to look at increases. I like to build up a healthy reserve, and while I've seen too many coops/condos not build enough, there is a bit of a risk in having too much at some point. But there is definitely a psychological factor when it comes to sharp increases - I have to think your building's situation is not uncommon.

i always advocated steady annual increases, even where expenses were flat (reserves!), and lumpsum assessments in the two coops i have owned in--didnt make me popular, but made those who sold happy

Condoprez, don't look in the mirror but someone is losing it.

Hey when your mama asked you what you wanted to be azz an adult, did you raise your one inch stick arm and say 'condo prez! Or at least start as the holiday decorating chair and work my way up to, doorman gift buying chair and then maybe one day, if all the starz are aligned, communicatiOns director and finally finally at 55 years of age, the youngest condo prez on east 700 97th street!

That puts you a little north of LIC.

wow yours is an angry little penny ante world mr bigshot condoprez

maybe leverage gotz you a little bit nervous--like i said a little equity can relax a person

nice ltv's--hope you got scuba gear somewhere in that tiny little dump

CondoPrez, we get it, you're awesome. Now please move on.

again moronic....the absolute first thing an purchasing esq. looks for are baseless increases and pointless reserving. a building should be well aware of upcoming capex that TIMELY reserves should be instituted to cover. to willy-nilly just insitute increases to throw into a reserve - that's probably inadequate to handle any major capex anyway - is what turns away buyers. again, proof that you are nothing but a 27 year old, illegally-partitioned room renter, in your cube, f offin' on the internet at work in between cold calls. owned two coops my ass. besides if you didn't learn from owning in a coop the first time - god help you.

hey six seven---youve got scuba on your boat, dont you?

Condo prez how many times have you done the 'tax refund = special assessment' game?

Hey how about the perfunctory let's have three bids and then choose the 'chosen' vendor Bc it's a 'known quantity?'. How about the ' lets average the purchase cost to sell that sliver of hallway space to the cOmbo?'. Do you keep a spreadsheeet of all the units and their prices so you can pull the right of first refusal? Flmaoz. Dude such cliches of the condo/coop life. And basically all decisions come down to 'hey Greenthal/rose, what do other condos/coops do in our situation?'.

Almost forgot, when oil spiked did you do a last year VS this yr budget proforma to let all the shareholders know 'it's not the brd prez, please re-elect me' budget? Flmaoz.

w67th you are google master. you must have a headset?

w67, my bet is its hones - thought you would have been on to him by now.

I don't see how there is sufficient demand for owners to pass on costs to renters especially with the increase in new building inventory on the far west side, Brooklyn, LIC and NJ.

"AND Juiceman.....congrats on "FLAT".....whereabouts do you live.....and what gives with no increase....arent your labor costs going up as well?"

In fairness Mhillqt, we are seeing an increase in labor and some energy costs but we have also increased revenues and decreased other expenses dramatically. So net impact is flat.

"Juice, are you being serious here?"

Sarcastic swe, you have it right.

JuiceMan, where are your revenues coming from other than owners' common charges?

bjw, we had extra space in the basement converted to storage units that residents can use and pay for, laundry, and lobby events like Saturday night pole dancing with Russian spies.

Rangersfan. Thxs for heads up, but no matter condoprez/borkering is in the same 'shitty' waste of human resources in my book. The book of pink unicorns and never ending bubbles.

Wbtom. Dont need scuba gear to see condoprez will be underwater soon. Flmaoz. Ride this Fking bitch of a bubble down! I'm so so so enjoying the ride. Tis been a good year for w67 family. Thank you foreclosure santa.

JuiceMan, please forward invitations to the latter.

Cooper Square is one of the worst management companies around. Every new building they take over has to increase their maintenance. The board is happy as they are taken care of well. They typically don't last more then a year or two at most buildings as the owners revolt and elect a new board that tosses them out. I'm just waiting for the cops to enter their offices and arrest most of them.

> Sarcastic swe, you have it right.

Thank god. ;-)

I thought you were losing it.

yes, ab_11218, Cooper Square seems to have a bad reputation.

Raises for the past two years have been ok in line with other cost increases in New York but in the co-op we had some nice iimprovements and renovations.

bgrfrank: This Rip Van Winkling of old threads is interesting.
When regulars come on here later they will get the deja vue of it all.