LES vs Williamsburg

Are you alone or do you have others in your family?

Williamsburg if you work in the area or are unemployed, but LES for almost all other cases.

Williamsburg if you don't shower every day and you're under 30.

We own a pied-a-terre in Williamsburg and love it. It has a vibrant restaurant scene and great food and wine stores in a very concentrated area. It's a very mixed crowd, not just hipsters: we're in our 40's with 2 kids. We loved UWS/GV/Union Sq areas when we first visited NYC. Now we love just hanging in Williamsburg.

Check out these reaturants on Yelp or the Michelin Guide:
Osteria il Paiolo, Zenkichi, Egg, Dressler's, Fatty Que, Fornino, Pies n Thighs, Santorini Grill, Dumont Burger, Samurai. And these are all easily walkable from our apartment. And these are just a handful of the nearby restaurants.

For wine and food shops check out: Bedford Cheese Shop, Uva, Bagelsmith. Again, just minutes from our apartment.

And for recreation there is McCarren Park, where the pool, the size of 4 Olympic pools, is being renovated with a "beach" area and in the winter will have a skating rink. There is a running track as well. We love running across the Williamsburg Bridge and back (4 mile run). And there's great bike lanes on Kent Ave. There is the East River State Park on Kent and 8th where they have free concerts in the summer.

We still have Greenpoint and East Williamsburg to explore.

The feel of Williamsburg is pretty gritty for some, with working and closed warehouses near the river among the new/half built/stalled condos. We feel very comfortable walking through the area with our kids. I envision the future feel to be lots of new condos with some renovated warehouse lofts. It'll be a pretty unique NYC neighborhood.

I know nothing of LES.

I almost went for the new construction in wburg but instead chose the smaller place with superior location in manhattan . I think you really do lose alot as soon as you get off the island

Williamsburg hands down, especially if by the river. Unless you wanna live in a perennial weekend spring break.

dont blink--williamsburg is the obvious choice--true all that n77 and lookpied---i take the L to wmsbrg all the time from chelsea--was at diner and fatty q just yesterday

oh and im old

L is so easy to take and convenient for anything that radiates off 14th st (but I never took it in the morning) that personally I would pick wmburg. Wmburg has a neighborhood, friendly feel, and I'm not sure if les feels the same. Howeveer, if you like to sleep as late as possible and would be changing trains, maybe work location would be a big factor.

Unless you work in the 14th Street corridor, every commute into the city will involve two trains. Gets REAL old REAL fast.

Same price...i would never leave Manhattan..

The L train gets you to , say , the west village or chelsea easier than coming from the ues, and basically the same as from uws; even faster to the ev. And a taxi back at night isn't expensive. If the 14th st corridor is what you like in Manhattan, williamsburg can be a good choice, . The L is so easy and fast it seems like you're in Manhattan, almost. Late at night it can be a wait but it's always kind of fun and convivial. (i dont know if the work commute is the achilles heel of williamsburg, depending on where you're going, because i never did it).

don't ever leave Manhattan. it's like youth: when you're gone, you're gone forever

"i dont know if the work commute is the achilles heel of williamsburg, depending on where you're going, because i never did it"

BTDT. Royal pain in the ass.

if u like commuting you know what to do

omg. more needless wiliamsburg bashing. i'm married with family and condo owner in Williamsburg and very much over 30. it's very convenient, and have never had problems. one of us goes downtown and one goes to midtown. switch between the L and j or m (both of us now as the m goes uptown). 25 minutes door to door tops.

On weekends you need 2 trains. No manhattan M service on weekends. So I hope you like taking 2 trains.

To answer the original question, it really depends (surprising, I know). Location within the LES and Williamsburg can really make a difference (Orchard is much better than Pitt, for example). The second bedroom is a pretty big deal (especially if you're using this as an investment), but if the total square footage isn't that different, it's not as crucial as you might think. As for the transportation issue, taking two trains is really quite painless unless you're trying to get somewhere further away at 3am. But evidently some people are deeply annoyed by a transfer, so test it all out and figure out what you're comfortable with. This really all comes down to personal preferences in the end.

1. Where do you commute to?
2. How important will the 2nd bedroom be in the next 2 years?
3. How many of your friends will refuse to visit you 'off the island'?

I moved from the UWS to Williamsburg and now get more quickly to places I go - 14th - 23rd St and downtown, than from my old place on West End Ave. But some of my friends think I've moved to Ohio or Iowa or something - they think they need the car to get here, and that's the only downside. Because they don't, and the neighborhood is both lively and quiet (you don't want to live between the bars and the L train.)

LoftyDreams, you get to 14th Street or 23rd Street faster from Williamsburg than from the Upper West Side?

I live by the 96th street station and I get to 14th street or 23rd street in 15 minutes. (Express to 14, switch for the local or just take the local to 23rd.) The 1, 2, & 3 trains run very frequently.

I am sure you would get to 14th and 1st faster becuase that is the L train stop, and in theory, I could see in getting to 14th and 7th Ave. faster from Williamsburg - if you live more or less on top of the train at the Bedford venue stop and it arrives right away. However, most people don't live right on top of the train. And in my experience, the L train does not run as frequently as the 1-2-3 trains, and there is only one line in Williamsburg. The Upper West Side also has B & C trains on Central Park West.

In general, when I visit friends in Williamsburg, after I get off the train, I have to do some walking and the trains don't run that frequently.

While Williamsburg is pretty reasonable from a travel-commuting standpoint to some popular areas of Manhattan, the Upper West Side transportation is plugged into Manhattan and access to the rest of New York better.

So Lofty - do you see all your old friends in your new place? Or, once off the island???

"if you live more or less on top of the train at the Bedford venue stop and it arrives right away. However, most people don't live right on top of the train. And in my experience, the L train does not run as frequently as the 1-2-3 trains, and there is only one line in Williamsburg."

oohah, most people on the UWS don't live right on top of a station either, and you're one of the relative few who live right by an express stop (the other being at 72nd, as you know). As another former UWSer who moved to Williamsburg, I can corroborate Lofty's experience. The L train runs quite frequently, and while having a second line as an option can be nice, it really makes no difference in terms of time once you've chosen which line you're getting on - you still have to wait for the train too. I think the UWS has great transportation options, but getting to certain other parts of Manhattan are quite tricky and require either a crosstown bus or train transfer. The L has its flaws, but it ain't nearly as bad as it used to be.

I live on the Wburg waterfront... it takes me 5-6 minutes to walk to the train, max of a 6 minute wait for the train, and a 6 minute ride to union square. On average it takes me about 14 minutes. I paid $655/sqft for a new construction and I have some great city views. When I was looking in the LES I didn't really find anything in that price range other than in some old tower blocks.

I lived at 97th and WEA, 2 blocks from the 96th St (as we used to say) IRT. Now I live on Berry and N 10th, 4 blocks from the L. Not "on top of" but convenient. It takes me 5 minutes on the L to Union Sq. - give another 5 minutes of waiting and that's still faster than the 3 train. I go into Manhattan to see my friends, as I know it will be easy. I walk around the reservoir in Central Park with friends two mornings a week.

BJW it is amazing how bad your "advice" is. You are telling this user to live on Orchard Street in the LES. You do realize that this is one of the busiest B&T blocks in the whole hood? You dont live on Orchard you party on Orchard. Your advice is like telling people to live on Bedford.

Please keep your advice to schilling for W Burg where you live.

What are you talking about, User??? Orchard is pindrop quiet compared to Ludlow.

@Lofty, yes, as compared to the 1-2-3, the L is faster to certain stops directly on the 14th street line, such as the 1st Ave, 3rd Ave, and Union square stops.

@bjw2103 - my point in regard to proximity to transportation, is that in Williamsburg, there is only one option and it is easy to be a 20 minute walk from the train while still in the neighborhood. I see all these testimonials from people who live 4 - 5 blocks from the L. You have to know that a lot of your fellow residents have a longer trek.

Comparatively, most of the Upper West side lives within 5 blocks from the train. Remember, on the Upper West Side, two separate train lines run right right along the entire neighborhood, so it is difficult to be far away from a train stop on the UWS especially with the options of the IRT or IND.

The exception is the area way west of the Time Warner center which is a small part of the neighborhood, and is not historically a residential area, that only started being developed in the past 10-15 years. Even in that area when you get to the train you are at 59th street which is a "hub stop" with a ton of options.

Certainly, some of my opinion is shaped by my 1980's experience with the L, when it was slow and dangerous, and it has definitely improved Watch out when the budget cuts get worse!). Overall, the UWS offers more options that are extremely reliable - and they are closer for pretty much the entire neighborhood. Additionally, there are bus lines on every avenue except West End, and crosstowns every 7 to 10 blocks. The UWS is literally overrun with transportation options.

***

I am not saying Williamsburg is bad from a transportation perspective - especially compared to a most of Brooklyn, but for a residential neighborhood, the Upper West side tops the list for transportation.

***

Where the Upper West Side has gotten worse whoever, is ambiance. It used to be a potpourri of middle class professionals, artists, blue collar, as well as richy-riches, and nowadays it is more and more homogenized, with long time residents clinging to their rent stabilized apartments while their landlords try to figure out how to pry them loose.

It's almost enough to make you want to depend on the L train! ;-)

"BJW it is amazing how bad your "advice" is. You are telling this user to live on Orchard Street in the LES. You do realize that this is one of the busiest B&T blocks in the whole hood? You dont live on Orchard you party on Orchard. Your advice is like telling people to live on Bedford.

Please keep your advice to schilling for W Burg where you live."

Relax, User. If you read correctly, the point is it's all relative - are you telling me you'd prefer living on Pitt? Orchard is actually not nearly as "B&T" as Ludlow. Also, just like Bedford, Orchard is a long street, and the blocks vary. Living on South 3rd and Bedford, for example, is fine. Same at Orchard and Broome. But hey, it's all my opinion - if you disagree, go nuts, but you seem to be an awfully quick draw with the s-word. Too bad.

oohah, no worries - I agree with a lot of what you say. The only major thing I disagree with is that there is only one option in the neighborhood. L, J/Z, and M are all there. Not a 20 minute walk for anyone I can think of.

JJre, my grandmother was born on the Lower East Side, so I can tell you a thing or two about it. It's a crumbling district of tenements, packed to the gills with smelly immigrants from Eastern Europe (my grandmother excepted). Toilets are located only in the backyards of six-story walkups. Showers and baths are nonexistent. Rats gnaw on babies. The streets are so crowded with pushcarts selling everything imaginable that you can barely navigate them. In the summer, raggedy children sleep on the fire escapes. There are occasional runs on the banks.

If anyone "makes it", he moves overseas to Williamsburgh, the land of milk and honey.

Best of luck.

"I live on the Wburg waterfront... it takes me 5-6 minutes to walk to the train, max of a 6 minute wait for the train, and a 6 minute ride to union square. On average it takes me about 14 minutes."

That's fine if you work in Union Square.

Most people don't.

Most people work in Midtown or Downtown, which would require a transfer, wait, and another train. Twice a day. Every day UNTIL YOU DIE (or move the hell out of Williamsburg).

@NYCMatt - It really isn't a bad commute from Williamsburg to midtown or downtown. Probably about 25-30 minutes once you get on the train. It is a little much to ask to never have to transfer. Williamsburg, Long Island City, and to a certain extent Astoria all get you to Manhattan pretty quickly, and to fairly central train stations where you can transfer to where you want to go.

However, in comparing residential neighborhoods, the Upper West Side is obviously better situated to quickly get you to most places in Manhattan.

@NYCMatt - It really isn't a bad commute from Williamsburg to midtown or downtown. Probably about 25-30 minutes once you get on the train. It is a little much to ask to never have to transfer. Williamsburg, Long Island City, and to a certain extent Astoria all get you to Manhattan pretty quickly, and to fairly central train stations where you can transfer to where you want to go.

However, in comparing residential neighborhoods, the Upper West Side is obviously better situated to quickly get you to most places in Manhattan.

@NYCMatt - It really isn't a bad commute from Williamsburg to midtown or downtown. Probably about 25-30 minutes once you get on the train. It is a little much to ask to never have to transfer. Williamsburg, Long Island City, and to a certain extent Astoria all get you to Manhattan pretty quickly, and to fairly central train stations where you can transfer to where you want to go.

However, in comparing residential neighborhoods, the Upper West Side is obviously better situated to quickly get you to most places in Manhattan.

"@NYCMatt - It really isn't a bad commute from Williamsburg to midtown or downtown. Probably about 25-30 minutes once you get on the train."

Famous last words: "Once you get on the train."

I did that commute for a year -- from Williamsburg to Midtown West. It NEVER took 25-30 minutes. I had to allow a minimum of 45 minutes' worth of wait/train/transfer/wait/train time, not counting the walking to and from the subway stations above ground.

@NYCMatt - Try commuting from Riverdale up the hill. I did that for 6 months and I wanted to kill myself.

I'm all about short commutes - as I pointed out above the Upper west Side has maybe the best commute to more of the city than any other residential neighborhood, and I value that greatly. But for outside Manhattan --> most Manhattan business districts, you can do a lot worse than Williamsburg.

I take a nine minute cab to work, and a radio car from my girlfriend's in blyn...with the money I save rent VS own I could just about cover the cost of a driver

>... from my girlfriend's ...

Interesting, you are a man. It must have taken balls to choose your name to post here, Wbottom.

Wbottom is a big closeted liar

Are you sure?

>Wbottom
>quit wettin my panties like that, six seven

positive. and old

AH, I love you.

hburg..bravo, you made the leap that, as a man, i have balls

im surprised you had time to work through that given your pathetic life spent dialoguing with yourself on message boards--

and for all who can't get past my ass each time they see/hear the word bottom, that kind of bottom must be your world--not that there is a damned thing wrong with your world, just accept that it's yours and not mine

the wet panties expression as an indicator of excitement still makes me giggle

not to dignify your comments, but, once, the Wbottom i refer to is a market bottom i predict for the NY RE market, with the rightward breakdown, as expressed in the letter W, to occur shortly---Vbottoms, Ubottoms and Wbottoms refer to certain chart formations

and nicercatch, if it comforts you to find me a liar, fine--might be more comforting, though, to relaunch about your international real estate investments, alongside the shlthole building you allege to own over by port authority....hahahahhaha

So you are or are not dignifying my comments?

I mean, with your "giggle", you seem like a rather dignified individual.

but you're psychotic and have created over 200 different identities here.

Thanks all for your opinions, it really helps. The place is for me and my husband, so a 2nd bdrm is good for the next few years. And we both work in the city, so easy commute is important as well. :)

I roughly counted base on comments so far, so it's like 50/50.