Sale at 111 Fourth Avenue #2HIJ

Haven't seen this one but the building is one of the best. The 2 roof decks are amazing, plus location is perfect, doorman, etc. I know most things trade in this building around $1100 ppsf, why do you think it needs a gut renovation. so depends on that i guess...

Even the listing mentions that it needs a gut. At 1100 per sq foot finished, assuming mid end 400K reno, it comes to 1.8mm.

Seller is groping for correct price here. See history:
02/23/2010Listed by Corcoran at $2,650,000.
04/26/2010Price decreased by 7% to $2,475,000.
07/29/2010Price decreased by 9% to $2,250,000.
01/27/2011Price decreased by 7% to $2,100,000.

Still way high. Significant plusses here: good building, breathtaking windows, great light, serviceable overall layout. Minusses: horrid street traffic/noise all day and evening; inability to install city quiet windows on massive windows in the unit; quirks in layout like a HUGE bathroom and tub for a small 9.5' wide bedroom. Need for gut reno.

This is essentially an estate condition place. Budget to mid end job needs to cover 3 full bathrooms, 100% new kitchen, floors likely to be replaced, some electrical upgrades, closets re-done, new a/c units... Minimum $300,000. for mid to high end you are talking about $400K minimum and easily more.

Ask price? Should be $1.85MM. Reasons: recent H line sale on higher floor for renovated unit closed just above $1MM. Add 2 one-bdrm units at about $650K each. Total is around $2.3MM. Deduct for negatives above and cost of reno and I say $1.85 is reasonable place to start getting some bids.

The original $2.6MM ask was delusional. I still think the seller is wasting time dicking around. Owner has had this unit forever; stop being greedy, move on with life, and get the place sold. If I'm wrong about the asking price and have gone to low, then the market will speak and multiple bids should result generating a rarely seen bidding war. But I'm not wrong. I'm reasonable. I'm always reasonable. :)

REVISION: I was wrong. It is a 2-bdrm H line with a studio and small 1 bdrm attached. I'd say the ask should be $1.65MM. Given the amount of work it all needs, I don't think many people are touching it for much more.

I was also wrong re: amount of traffic, fwiw--I was thinking Broadway. 4th Ave is not as bad. Still, 2nd floor isn't great. But now as bad as Broadway and 12th St.

i don't think this is 1900 to 2000 square feet. all the rooms list square footage at the widest points. it seems like a 55 foot space by an average of about 30ish feet which does not equal 1900 square feet. and the rooms are a mess as configured. it would work much better as a three bedroom. at the smaller real square footage the mtc. is seeming a bit high, but that would be expected for a three-unit combo.

having said that, this is the type of space i'd love to tackle, and in an area in which i'd love to buy. if i weren't so gd cheap, this is something i'd take on for the joy of transforming this type of space. but not at $2.1mm.

Oy--I'm a fool. I meant recent "I" line sale--not "H" line as I wrote above.

Thanks Kylewest. I agree that the price should be around $1.7mm at the current market. How do you compare it to the 54 east 11th street 5th floor? What would you pay for that considering that needs gut reno too.

This particular unit is also directly above retail space.. currently Valley National Bank.

Wait.. on second thought, I believe L is the ground floor of 111 so this unit would is actually on the 3rd floor and not over retail space.

@ 300 Mercer: I am not familiar with the building so base this opinion on 54E11 only on what I see on Streeteasy. The most obvious comp is the 2010 7th Fl sale for $1.7MM. I guess that minus 2 floors is the right price.

Personally, this type of unit is not for me. Can't imagine spending this kind of money and getting a weird layout that includes two tiny cramped bedrooms. I don't spend oodles of money for weird. It isn't my thing. Some people just love the idea of owning a whole floor and lofty space though. Not me. This unit may be better without any walls. Also, I HATE idea of 10 units in a large building. The cost of upkeep will be spectacular over time with one special assessment for capital projects after another, or more and more debt taken on by the building. It is a potential financial quagmire I would not expose myself to. Imagine Local Law facade rules reveal massive water infiltration into facade of this old building that needs correcting including erection of scaffold for 1.5 years minimum (after an engineer inspects facade and says it needs work, scoffold must be erected, more soundings done, the job needs to be bed, and then the actual work needs to be done--that's a TON of time). Then think about new roof at some point, new sidewalk vault, furnace, public spaces, electrical transformer if coned says it is too old to safely handle building demands, ... No way would I get involved with such potential financial obligations unless I had A LOT more money than I actually do. Not enough people consider such things. And then they are shocked when it is too late.

Very high maintenance considering SF. Offer 1.58M and you'll need another 5k for good renov. That comes out to approx 1100sf. considering the high maintenance, this is sonsistent with the market.

Hope the owner and broker of 111 fourth are reading.

I get 1890 square feet when measured off the floor plan. That's $1.55/sqft maintenance, which I don't think is out of line for a 24hr doorman building in that area.

I think $1100 ppsf is fair, which is $2,079,000 in good shape. Figure at least $250/sqft for a renovation, which puts the low end of renovation expense at $473k. That puts you firmly at $1.6 million.

(And for those asking why it needs a gut renovation, the lack of pictures of the kitchen or bathrooms is usually a strong signal.)

Unfortunately, sellers of gut-ready apartments seem to have rather lofty expectations of their value, as if the renovation cost shouldn't be part of the equation at all. This is yet another perfect example -- it seems to be particularly common in Corcoran listings, although that's admittedly based on a small sample size. Anyway, on the current trajectory, the ask price should be correct in another ten months.

Another correction. One more to go before it sells to someone who does not mind single pane windows on a bust street.

I'm not quite sold on this building being one of the "best".

The layouts are very often lousy. I've seen 3-4 of these. I like the location and windows, but the rooms end up being these weird sizes.