Difficulties predicting procreation?

They usually are thinking, but get hit with the old "99% effective!" Or life's surprises, e.g. twins.

My 45-year-old sister thought she was menopausal, but the gyno said "Even better! You're pregnant!" Or my niece who'd been told she could never conceive, but did. And so on.

I think the two-crib people in the ad are renters, though. The buyers are http://www.piggymojo.com/index/about and live somewhere else.

Easy to explain. Many couples (you can insert typical stereotypes here) get the nesting instinct and the urge to buy shortly before or after conceiving. The market being what it is, most end up in 2 bedrooms EVEN if they have every intention of trying for 2 children and if they know full well that they may have a boy and girl in a 2 bedroom apt. You can extend my theory to couples who intend on having kids and buy a 1-bedroom.

Also, many figure that 2 or 3 kids sharing the 2nd br is fine for at least 5 yrs. And maybe indefinitely.

Thanks for digging out the deets, NWT.

I guess living with 3 kids in the 2nd bedroom works nicely in theory, but then reality hits nyc10023.

"living with 3 kids in the 2nd bedroom works nicely in theory"

In practice too. Good bonding experience for young kids. I have them share a room even when another bedroom is available. They like chatting with each other before they fall asleep.

> In practice too. Good bonding experience for young kids. I have them share a room even when another bedroom is available. They like chatting with each other before they fall asleep

indeed, carlos slim didn't lack the funds to give each of his kids his/her own bedroom. but instead he planned his household so that the 3 boys will share the same bedroom. same thing with his 3 girls. that way they grew much closer to each other. sounds like a great idea to me.

Fascinating...

We have three (same gender) in one room. Has worked OK for nearly six years, and they are closer for it; but the oldest would probably benefit from a quiet place with some privacy now.

WRT to the question posed by the thread starter, keep in mind that a lot of people who are highly intent on nesting wind up relying on fertility treatments, with a consequently high rate of multiple births. Having the kids share a bedroom is a minor inconvenience compared to the joy of having them at all, not to mention the painful choices involving the frequent necessity of fetal reductions.

When your adult kids discuss your real and imagined parenting deficiencies, as they will, room-sharing won't make the list.

Inonada: call it theory, but in real life, I know of 3 kids who've been sharing 1 room for more than a few years. Of course, they're lucky to have a room.

That sounds really cozy nyc10023 ... but I hope each child still has its own nanny...?

I imagine there are lots of parents in NYC who have to choose between that extra bedroom and private school tuition for the progeny.

"I imagine there are lots of parents in NYC who have to choose between that extra bedroom and private school tuition for the progeny."

You forgot the 3rd option: Moving to the suburbs. And yes, depsite how everyone thinks that families are all staying in the city, the reality is that plenty are moving to the burbs.

Aptometrist: And RE prices being what they are, it makes sense for some to have a 2-br in the city (owned or rented) and have a place upstate/NJ/PA. Keep essentials at the apt, and rotate seasonal clothing between city & country. Kids are at school most of the day anyway.

Socialist: Debated to death here and on other boards. Plenty move to the suburbs but as a proportion of the "middle-class" or "upper-middle-class", more families are postponing that move.

"And RE prices being what they are, it makes sense for some to have a 2-br in the city (owned or rented) and have a place upstate/NJ/PA."

Huh? What? How many people do you think could afford to have 2 residences? 3% of the population?

Not to mention that having that 2nd residence outside the city now requires buying a car. So instead of having 2 house payments every month, you now have 2.5

Makes sense for "some". Not the majority, but some. A very few, fortunate some. I recognize how unfair it is that some have the means when many can't even afford a one-room apt. But look at the forum we're on. People are talking like they can afford 1m, 2m, 3m apts. That's the audience.

I don't personally know, but I have thought most people have kids thinking they will later sell them before they're too big to offset rises in maintenance fees; but then they get attached and change their minds.

"...but then they get attached and change their minds."

...plus not too many interested buyers when they are too big.

The golden age is when still baby-cute but old enough to cook, clean and run errands. All too fleeting, though.

It can also be delayed decision making. Leaving the city, evaluating city private schools, prices of large family apartments, hatred of suburbs, hatred of commutes, not knowing what suburb to chose all can add up to a stressful, expensive, and complicated decision. Some may choose to put off the decision for as long as possible hoping for an event that will make the decision for them (new job, promotion, friends moving to a specific burb, winning the lottery). Before they know it, they have 3 kids under 4 in one bedroom, two cats, a storage bin in the building (full), a storage bin in New Jersey (also full), in-laws sleeping on the couch, kickball games in the hall, and trips to Borders bookstore as a primary source of entertainment.

Incorrect, JuiceMan: it is because they do not sell them in time. The desire to spawn baffles me. Such headaches. Yeah, yeah...the joys of parenthood. Please. All the parents I've ever met do nothing but complain. I've come to believe people have kids because they are bored. No one will ever admit it, though. So the message never gets out: don't do this! Misery loves company.

Maybe all you hear are the complaints kyle because that's all you want to hear.

Nope. I'm an outstanding listener.

The parents I know set stop-losses so their children are automatically sold off at the same time. That stops the problem of becoming attached to them.

But for parents who don't have the foresight to set stop-losses, I think there are solvents available to detach sticky children. The one I know of is called SideCar. To use it, you have to shake it until your hands feel like they're going to shatter from the cold, then shake for 10 seconds more.

at the *right* time

kyle, you should play hallway kickball before labeling it a "complaint".

I've heard hallway kickball. It is a harbinger of the decline of civilization.

This discussion brings to mind my mother's complaint that I was born
prematurely. When I asked her why that was, she said it was because I
was born during her lifetime.

don't take this wrong rb, but I'd hang with your moms

Inonada - Im one of those people you would ask "what were you thinking?" I bought my one bedroom having absolutely no clue that three years later I would be married with a "surprise" baby. It just kind of happened, as life does.

Pro: being in a one bedroom with a baby is a blessing and I would never want it any other way. I never had to worry like my suburban friends did that the baby would fall down the stairs, or wander outside, or go into a distant room and get into something dangerous.

Con: of course, now that she is toddling, we'd like our own room and more space and will be moving next year. I was going to sublet (my coop permits) but honestly prices in my building have recovered so I am no longer freaking out about losing my shirt. If that hadnt been the case, I probably would have sublet.

Part of it nada is that buyers are listening to your arguments (or the arguments of those like you) when you press them to be extremely financially conservative, and therefore they're "underbuying." I have current clients who fully plan to have kids, but at the same time don't want to take a mortgage loan of more than 1x current income.

The thinking is, better to cross the bridge of having to move again in four years, with four more years' worth of savings under the belt, than to commit to a mortgage loan of 2x current income and risk getting laid off and still having to service that debt.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Then they're penny-wise, pound-foolish. Why buy an apt at all given the transaction costs when you can rent for the next 4 years (trot out your favorite rent-buy calculator). You lose the hassle of having to sell/worry about mkt fluctuations & I can't see a way to break even. In the mid-90s, if you had the down, it was cheaper to buy. But it hasn't been a clear win for a looooonnnng time.

Kids are like potato chips. Once you have one you can't stop.

What are / were you thinking?

beats me. i've always planned on renting until my family is complete and i can buy and settle into my forever home. i've never rented a place where i didn't paint the walls, install organizing stuff in the closet, changed the knobs on the cabinetry. i even wallpapered an alcove "bedroom" once (had to remove it and repaint white when moving out, but no big deal). never occured to me i had to destroy the space entirely and rebuild to be happy there or to make it my own. who knew?

1. kids happen, planned and not planned (i'm a planner and i had an oopsie already)
2. very few people can afford to purchase 3 or more bedrooms in this city (in their lifetime)

decision time.

"Part of it nada is that buyers are listening to your arguments (or the arguments of those like you) when you press them to be extremely financially conservative, and therefore they're "underbuying.""

WTF? Then they have no idea what financially conservative means. See, there is this thing called the rental market...

uwsmom

i may be misunderstanding the op, but i think your family is the perfect answer to the question inonada is asking. while family housing is insanely and prohibitively expensive, the rent you pay is pretty high and your husband is very successful. you guys could have easily bought that jr4 or small 2/1 while pg with kinder #1. but you didn't. the thinking process behind the decision you made vs. the people who DID buy a place they knew they would very soon outgrow is the "what were they thinking" op refers to. as i understand it. and while both my kids have been oopsies, they were oopsies with the man with whom i had always planned to have all my 2-4 oopsies. btw that plan has been downgraded to the 2 existing human oopsies. maybe if we one day find a check for a bagillion dollars, we'll buy the angelina jolie variety pack, but i can't be pg again, f*ck that sh*t.

I suspect most oopsies were cleverly planned by one of the party involved.

right, i guess unless you are pharmaceutically and uh, latexally preventing oopsies, they don't count as real oopsies.

our oopsie was part carelessness, part "it would be fun to have another already, but i'd never admit it, people will think i'm crazy, and i may go mad!"

op is questioning why people aren't syncing their real estate and lifestyle decisions better. it's hard to be perfect.

we came here with $0, only planned to stay for a couple of years, NEVER wanted to have children here, and never could have afforded to purchase. Things happen. Life changes. It's hard to predict.

I sort of scratch my head as well. We have good friends that bought a junior 4 while the wife was pregnant with their first (2006). They made the tiny dining room (8x11) into a nursery, which worked ok, but by the time their kid was 2 he/they were pretty cramped in the apartment. Now they had their second, are REALLY cramped, and will likely sell in the next year. They will at best break-even on the price (more likely lose $$, especially after transaction costs and renovation expenses). And in the meantime, they could have been renting a nicer/bigger apartment for the same monthly cost.

My view is that unless rent/buy strongly favors buying (which hasn't been true in a long time), one should only buy with a long-ish time horizon. When my single friends in their 30s talk about buying a 1-bedroom or even a 2-bedroom, I ask them "What happens when you meet your future spouse, and they hate the apartment, or the location?", "what happens if you get married and have kids in the near future?"

newbuyer: They may not make a capital gain, but they will have built equity, which is something you most definitely don't do with rent, yes blah blah investing blah blah, but the fact remains your rent is money you never see again, where as even mortgage interest will earn you tax breaks.

I didn't realize everyone in their 30's could afford to buy amazing 3 bed+ apartments in fantastic locations, obviously I'm not doing very well, studio-1 beds are a great way to get into the market for average people. I read this board and feel like I'm watching an episode of selling new york sometimes, where everyone has millions in cash to throw at giant apartments.

I'm getting married in a couple of months and we have just bought a large one bed condo, we aren't planning to have kids for another 5 years or so, but if we do we can make a second bedroom. I'm going to prepay the crap out of the mortgage, and in 6/7 years time we should have a good chunk of equity even if the price hasn't risen (though I would like to think it will), then we can look for a bigger place, rinse repeat.