What would scare you away from gut reno?

Are there any prewar details that you'd like to save? Often, it's more expensive to save and restore woodwork, mouldings, etc. than to replace. I much prefer the restored stuff to almost anything you can buy today.

I'm game for any kind of gut reno or even demolishing a small building and rebuilding, so I'm probably not the right person to ask.

The things that would make me not buy this specific apt for my personal use would be:
1) Building-wide issues - crummy hallways with no prospect of renovation, facade issues, roof issues, building-wide plumbing & electrical issues.
2) If getting increased electrical supply to avoid window A/Cs is NOT possible.
3) No W/D permitted.

Thanks for the input. As far as I could tell from the open house I think the A/Cs had to be in the window and W/D were OK. Building seemed OK to me but they were starting a redo on all the windows in the building.

has anyone investigated the practicality of solar powered A/C?
Im sure half of the roof can be 'gazebo-ed' with panels.

UWS,

A gut renovation is a gut renovation. Prewar or otherwise. You just need to know what you are getting into. It is time consuming and expensive

UWS,

A gut renovation is a gut renovation. Prewar or otherwise. You just need to know what you are getting into. It is time consuming and expensive

Truthskr: wouldn't it be more practical to have solar panels for feeding back into the grid, as opposed to special purpose for-AC solar panels.

I've looked into it, can't remember the name of co. - they come in and do eval to see if it makes sense to install - I think I paid nothing.

What might a gut reno on a place like this reasonably expect to cost?

What is the typical price per sq/ft for a gut renovation?

nyc is correct. If you want to save/restore original details be prepared to pay. We are in the process of doing that now--stripping mahogany decorative wood beams, window frames, baseboards plus stripping and restoring original plaster moldings. Expensive and time intensive? Yes. Worth it? Hell yeah. Much MUCH better than tearing out and replacing or just schlocking on more paint to cover up all the past indignities. It's a real joy seeing the 'real' place start to emerge after decades of being hidden under junk.

UWS,

In my experience a very nice gut renovation costs about $250-$300.00 sq ft. Can it be done cheaper? Yes it can but that does require a lot of leg work and not getting much custom work.

I would describe a nice renovation as one that comes out very clean lines. Look at my portfolio page on my website and that is what I am talking about. Most of those projects are in that price range

www.primerenovationsnyc.com

UWS
Would agree with other posters would cost about $200-300/foot, starting for high end renovation.

Can recommend Design by Francois - www.francoistenenbaum.com if you need a reccomendation.

He works mostly on the UES but has done some work on the UWS including a penthouse on Riverside Drive.

What would scare me away would be a short-term time horizon in terms of how long I planned to live there. An expensive renovation is for living in most of the time -- it is not an investment. You will not recover your costs by flipping in today's market. You renovate to create the space you intend to live in for a long time. If I could reasonably foresee work situations causing me to have to move out of state, or if there were a chance I'd need more space to accomodate a growing family in the next years, or anything else that made is a significant possibility I would not be staying in the apartment, I would not sink the money of a gut reno into it unless the money didn't matter to me.

The reward for taking on a renovation is getting to enhance the quality of your life with a custom built home that just makes day-to-day living more enjoyable. It is for those with long term time horizons and those for whom the costs fit comfortably within their short and long term financial abilities and goals.

Hi, good questions.
I must admit, I LOVE renovations and don't like surprises so I like the idea of being as prepared as possible, and still things will come up.

Firstly, high level asbestos reports in the building.
Eg quotes for work I have seen in the Ansonia have been double to triple the "normal" costs, on the apts with high levels (I know prewar have asbestos, however not at a level where the report says you have to deal with it as an asbestos job).
Besides the cost, I am at the job everyday and have the guys in masks, safety eyewear etc for just regular work, so that would cause added stress for me, additionally concerned about the neighbors who are taking cheaper quotes and not dealing with it in a safe way.

Secondly electricity output. I have seen prewar 1 bedrooms that only have 4 circuits for the whole apt, this would be a nightmare if you were doing your gut by code in a building that hasn't updated or lets you bring the electricity up from the basement.
EG by code you are only allowd one circuit per outlet etc. So in a bathroom where I put 2 outlets under the sink, radiant floors, heated towel rack, 2 sconces, ceiling light, exhaust and 2 speakers. I have the desire for double the allowance of electricity for the whole apt in just the bathroom.
In most buildings they will let you bring more electricity up from the basement if it is there, however I have seen this cost from $4000 to $10,000 per floor, to get it up to your apt if there isn't sufficient.

Thirdly, the buildings alteration agreement. Not really a surprise because you read it before you bid on a property, however I have seen some "surprises". Admittedly in more high end buildings.
Eg The Prasada on CPW you are given 48 hrs (which is actually 16 working hours) for your whole demolition process. Obviously they don;t want you taking out stuff, however that doesn't help with a "gut " renovation. Additionally when demolition is taken out it can't just be double bagged and taken out on masonite lined hallways, it has to be packed in small trolleys.
Plus you are not alowd to touch the ceilings and there are hardly any existing ceiling light fixtures so unless you love sconces, you will have a lot of lamps.
Eg At 75 CPW they have a 7 year renovation rule, so if the apt has been renovated with in the last 7 years you have to wait for the 7 years to be up before starting another one.

I would be scared to go into a gut renovation without a proper detailed signed contract and attached drawings. One of the only ways I know to come in close to on price and on time is to create a very clear document of all the details of what you want to create and the timeline in which you want to do it and outline the responsibilities of each team member.

Additionally I would need a good working relationship with the GC where they naturaly love resolving problems, where there solutions don't involve throwing endless money at the solution or "change orders".

I also like to check out to make sure a building has a freight elevator, or that can add to each delivery.

Dude - co-op boards. get a TH.

NYC23

I may have misunderstood your point...
"2) If getting increased electrical supply to avoid window A/Cs is NOT possible."
to mean you can't upgrade the electrical enough to have HVAC so my suggestion was a seperate closed loop solar powered HVAC system maybe bypassing a maxout on electrical service.

I understand what you mean - but what are the chances that a co-op with X apts & that does not allow you to have increased power (and if you are not the top floor) to have solar panels that power your A/C system but NOT your neighbors'. Unlikely (7th floor apt) that the co-op would let you do that.

Now, if you were in a top-floor or PH unit, maybe.

Gabrielle: good points.

@Pawn: yeah--same thing: prewar apartment or a townhouse...oh, other than the $10MM-20MM price difference. And then there are the joys of town house ownership: NYC dep't of buildings, possibly landmarks preservation, structural concerns, mechanical systems, facade maintenance, sidewalk vault responsibilities,... Such a pleasure. Townhouses in Manhattan are for those with very substantial resources or life is a never ending series of financial surprises and stresses. Apartment ownership has greatly more managed costs, fewer headaches, minimal maintenance issues, zero dealings with the city once you move in. Dude.

Oh yes totally agree, for some reason I assumed this thread was for a gut reno townhouse. Apologies.