Aqueduct Court

They're still saying end of April, although that seems impossible given the progress so far. Any other buyers in this building out there?

They've taken forever. How will the building be impacted since 5 units still remain? I would have loved to grab one of the small jr1 beds in this building. I just love the architecture and its details.

...

i was a buyer but got out and bought a different place. lovely but too slow.

I'm a buyer. Been waiting over a year. They first promised April '07, then June, then August, then October, then January, now June. How are we supposed to get financing on the deal if we can't predict when the closing would be, even approximately?

Streets: How'd you get out of it?

I had a timing clause in my contract.

Thanks, Streets.

How are people handling mortgage committments? Are you locked in and paying to extend or are you going to wait-n-see? The mortgage contingency was only for 30 days in my contract so that period has passed.

Who are people hearing about completion date from? The sponsor? Seller's agent? Your own agent? Seems like nobody knows. Are we all expected to live month-to-month? Looking for ideas on managing what has become a small nightmare.

Thanks.

Wells Fargo has/had a "Builders Best" product designed for developments under construction....the rate is/was essentially locked for 6 months in exchange for a 1% committment that actually got credited at closing. However, in light of the current credit situation I don't know if they continue to offer this option. Check it out, you never know.

I'll look into it, dg156.

The sponsors of Aqueduct Court offered financing through Commerce Bank, but only tied to contingency for the first 30-days. I found the guy at Commerce unresponsive and uninterested. The time expired without the application being processed.

Anybody else have any ideas on how to handle this, or how you have handled it.

Thanks.

Smart move, Streets. Just out of curiosity, how did you get the timing clause in your contract? My attorney said the contract was all "boilerplate" and no changes could be made. I signed in the fall of 2006 and am still waiting. By the way, I've been happy with Commerce. My mortgage application was processed and approved a long time ago. The interest rate is floating. I didn't bother to pay to lock in the rate and I'm glad I didn't.

I am a buyer of 479 W. 152st. too...any one know what action we can take? it's been dragging too damn long...i've been staying with a friend of mine for almost over a year...should not terminate my lease base on the completion date they told me in the beginning....and my attorney was telling me the same thing that i can't put "time clause" when i signed the contract...
I heard the completion date from my broker who got it from their sales agent...which is first april, 07, then aug. 07, then dec. 07, then march 08. Now they are not even sure about May 08 completion...i am super upset and is thinking to gether buyers together to push them at least give us an reasonable ANSWER!

we requested the clause be changed from 24 months to less and the sponsor countered 2 months and then we settled on timing. I was aware my living arrangements were not flexible enough to survive a long construction period.

Hey NYC105, I'm glad to see other buyers connecting here. (You too, nyc216). According to my attorney there is little, if anything, we can do. The contract gives the developer 24 months from the time the contract is signed to complete everything. Only then can you get out of the contract and get your deposit money back. And the developer can even extend that to, I think, 36 months, if they claim that a worker or supplier strike or bad weather slowed them down. I visited the building a few weeks ago and I can tell you for sure that May is impossible. There is still A LOT of work to be done. The selling agents won't say why there have been so many delays...I'm not even sure they know.

Hi NYC 2089!!!
so glad to meet you...what i was told is developer is going to close 469 W152 first (the one next door, that has the model home for showing) then they will finish 479. I went there two weeks ago at least the exterior scafold was took away. I was told the delay was because this building is landmark building, blah blah, so they had a major delay trying to get the permit for the elevator cus it's a major change from the original building design. But now the elevator is in and the facade was done, the interior should be moving fairly quickly since that shouldn't involve "landmark" approval....i can only hope....

hi, folks. as everyone has said, it is great to see people talking here. nyc105 suggests we get together to "push them at least give us an reasonable ANSWER!" this sounds great. but how can we go about this? is anybody's lawyer helpful here in how best to approach them given how many of us are being affected by the unreasonable delays?

i also heard two more units went back on the market. can't speculate as to why but it sounds like people are backing away from this project. i wonder what they see that is prompting the move, if beyond the timing delays.

any more information from others and good ideas about how we proceed is greatly appreciated. i've got my head churning on this but no great plan comes to mind.

somehow we need to get what we were promised, nothing more, nothing less. this is an issue of fairness and honesty in how the place was represented to us when we were potential buyers.

I agree, nyc216. And it's not just about how the place was represented when we were buyers, but the lack of satisfactory answers now. I heard the same "landmark approval" excuse that NYC105 mentioned above. But I don't think that explains all of the delays. The inside of the building has been gutted for well over a year now. Even if the outside is landmarked, why couldn't they have been doing work to the inside all this time?

Hi!! NYC 216...
One thing we can do is to keep our dialog here going....and hopefully other buyers will see it and join us....
at one time I was thinking to send a letter to prudential...complain and all...cus what i can't figure out is, there really isn't that much to be done, why can't the developer just finish the project and get the money and everyone will be happy...
anyways...what i am thinking doing is to create a blog. (as I saw other buys did for one of the new construction building), and we can just post whatever we know so far.(i can go take a few pics ) and we can forward this to the sales agent, if she cares about her reputation/commission...
all i am worrying is that the developer is having cash problem and can't get stuff done...keep my finger crossed that's not the case

http://north8condo.blogspot.com/
here's the sample blog...

http://north8delay.blogspot.com

sorry...this one is the one...

Great idea.

i can start working on it...

email to 479AQ152@gmail.com so i can give you guys passwords...
http://479w152.blogspot.com/

We are buyers in 479. I'm glad I happened to Google the building. We're having the same issues all of you have described. We will be in contract a year in May. Commerce has been good about the financing. The Prudential realtors usually have little information and we're not sure what they know and what they don't know. Our attorney said there is little we can do because of the contract. We have the same desire for straightforward answers. We could live with an honest, somewhat accurate completion date instead of this month-to-month crap. We had to move out of our apt and we're in a temporary space.It's just very shady.

Is anyone else leasing from the developer?? The last time we were in the building was December--it looked like they could have finished by the end of Feb (which is when the Project Mgr. told us he thought he'd be finished) if they had their shit together--obviously that wasn't the case. The realtor said last week she is thinking late June/early July. She said they're working on specifications that people asked for and the permanant roof. She said most of the bathrooms are the complete except for the powder baths in one line because of something with chimney exhaust. That's the latest update I've received.

Hi Uppereastnyc,
thanks for the info.
so we got NYC216, NYC2089, Uppereastnyc, and myself...hopefully more contractees will google the building and find us here...
In a way we are doing the realtor a favor...since she can only answer us just once instead of answer it several times. however...will she be able to give us a "real" answer...

Thank you to the buyer who sent the annonymous request with the link. Since I have been mentioned and by your comments, I thought I should answer since I am the Prudential broker and all along I have been giving you the "real" answer as best I could. Since I am not the construction manager, the general contractor, the inspectors, or the developer himself, I can only relay what I am told. So please don't shoot the messenger. By reading this I know who some of you are, since I do remember my conversations with you. As of late, the progression seems to be moving along at a much more rapid pace and I too feel confident about the summer closing that I mentioned to some of you and I invite you (and your own brokers to come seee the progress. Call me or have your broker call if you have broker representation. I look forward to hearing from all of you.

One more think, they buyers in the temporary space forgot to mention that the temporary space was provided by the developer in a building that he owns. So I guess he's not such a bad guy after all.

Hi aqueductagent. I realize you're just the messenger and that Prudential isn't responsible for the delays. I honestly believe that you probably have no idea what is taking this project so long. And since you've found us on this message board, maybe you'd like to address the rumor (?) that I heard, which is that the developer was in the process of firing the builder and getting a new one?

Rumor - since the same project manager is on the building therefore the builder did not change. What you probably heard but it somehow got changed in the relay sort of like playing telephone, is that there are sub contractors on the job which is common practice for different phases of construciton. For example, roofers, plumbers, electricians, etc. are sub-contractors.

went pass by last weekend, the scaffloding is back on the roof again...one of the window pane next buidlg (469) at the model home was broken for at least 3weeks...what is going on...
it is over a year...from the date i was told it was supposed to be done...how much longer do we have to wait?

I'm so glad that we are able to connect with other buyers. I too, am in contract for one of the units in 479 for over a year now. Much of what you are all saying I have been told too. The original date of end of summer 07 has now turned into May 08, which is basically impossible at this point. I have been told that the floors are going in since Dec/Jan - don't believe they're in yet! Not sure what is going on...seems to be problems with the sub-contractors. As one person mentioned, it could be a problem of cash %u2013 has anyone heard anything about this? Do we know how many people have been able to pull out of their contracts? I too understand that it is not the fault of the Prudential agent, but someone has to be able to provide "accurate" information. The only information my lawyer has gotten from the developers lawyer is to ask the Prudential agent - just a way to get rid of us. I definitely feel as if we're running in circles to get information we deserve to know!
Also, does anyone know if they are working on Saturdays? Supposedly they were a few months ago to "finish up" the project!

Does anyone know if they are working on Saturdays? Supposedly they were a few months ago to "finish up" the project!

Hi nyc0904,
I agree with you...we've been pushing around for over a year now...

aqueductagent, if you are still reading this bullitin, could you let us know what is left to be done at the building? are they working on saturdays in order to finish it? I think the buyers deserve to know this, we've been patiently waiting for A YEAR after all! and peopel need this info to PLAN their living situation. Thanks.

What, if any, updates have people heard?? Anything new?

only heard that the developer is trying to get TCO for the 469 building, and after they've done that, they will work on 479. doesn't seem that 479 is on the top of their list now....sigh...

Check out the link.
http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/now-being-late-is-disastrous-for-developers

I just spoke w/ my lawyer (who spoke with the developer's lawyer) and he told me that closings wouldn't start happening until Oct. / Nov. of this year. I mean WTF??? Is anybody else as pissed off as I am... this project is driving me friggin' NUTS!

We've heard July/August...that was "as of today"...

Have the sponsors been able to give valid reasons for the continued delays and the reasons they are believing the July, august or October November timeline is viable. are they giving you the outstanding steps yet to be taken so that you can evaluate if it is achievable or the associated risks?

nyc009 & uppereastnyc is this for 469 or 479?

479 for me...

streets - in our case the sponsors have been non-responsive. We've been hearing the same story, as I'm sure others have, since last fall/winter. We last heard that the TCO%u2019s should be issued within approximately 30 days - this was in May and is clearly NOT possible.....I'm not sure what our next steps should be??

I think it is time we -- as a group -- approach the Attorney General. Strength in numbers. Who's in?

We'll need to collaborate without the interference of the sponsor's agents who are able to view this blog. Please visit the password-protected blog that NYC105 set up to proceed.

The blog is http://479w152.blogspot.com/

To get a password, contact NYC105 at 479AQ152@gmail.com. (As per post above).

thank you for starting this thread. i am so glad to have found you all. we have been having our lawyer check in with them on a regular basis to get an update. every month, we are told that the closing date is roughly 3 months away. this started in April of 2007. At last notice, we were told August or September. (Not holding my breath). We signed contract in November of 2006.

Where in the contract does it say the thing about 24 months? My attorney never mentioned that to me.

I am in, regarding contacting the attorney general. I fell in love with the unit that we purchased, but I have lost faith in their ability to deliver a quality product. With the pressure on, I feel like they are going to skimp on things to just finish already.

please email me at 479AQ152@gmail.com. so i can invite you guys to view/write the blog.
please also identify yourself. Thanks a lot...

from the article posted by nyc105

Under state regulations, a buyer can break a contract with security deposit in hand if a year has passed since his contract signing and the building doesn't yet have at least a temporary certificate of occupancy, which is required before anybody can move in.

Anyone actually considering backing out? Its been 17 months since we signed a contract.

frustratedbuyer - my contract says they have "24 months". Were you able to get a time clause?

no, i didnt get a time clause. will you back out if it gets to that?

Given the nature of their business practices (misleading, at best) and the concerns I too have about the quality of the final product (rushed work is poorly done work), I will rescind my contract and take any legal actions necessary to hold the sponsor accountable. Anybody want a second unit? Seriously.

Has anyone been in the building(s) in a while??

Has everyone signed up for the blog? We've been posting some other information there that may be of interest....

i am going to take a walk by the building this week, will take photos of both buildings from outsite and post to blog.

Hey everyone. I walked by the building yesterday and found out some interesting things. Will post on the blog at some point today.

OK photos and observations posted as well as some new info from my broker

thanks!!! I saw it! very helpful!!! thanks again!

let us know how it all turns out.

I hate to chime by making this type of comment but I saw that property 3 months ago and there is no way in hell I would put any money down for that property. let alone have contract stipulation that bind me for 24 months. First off, the building has a barren piece of land that a prudential broker admittedly said could not be developed on because the soil has no foundation (its a terrible eye soar). Second, st. nicholas ave is still a neighborhood that needs some growth. If you are going to buy property in that neck of the woods it should be priced properly and the aqueduct is not by a long stretch. I don't care how good the building is (You don't buy a good house in a bad neighborhood, thats real estate 101). Third, how could anyone agree to such clause's in a contract? Did your laws give you caution? This is not like buying an ipod, its a piece of property and huge amounts of money is being exchanged how could you not go over this contract for months before plunking down a deposit. I do feel bad for all who are in this situation but I would have never agreed to that 24 month binding on this piece property.

Bottom line when investing in real estate stick to the basics.

marco, easy to say in this slow market as opposed to the hot market we bought into. there was nothing in this contract which set of alarms for my attorney, she said it was pretty standard. i dont see the barren piece of land as a bad thing necessarily, if we can make it into some sort of community garden, it would be great.

i suppose you are correct however, in pointing out that many of us were naive going into this, but that doesn't mean we deserve what is happening to us.

I just sent an email to Tappy Phillips at 7 On Your Side. Go to the website if you'd like to add your request for help with this untenable situation and maybe extra-squeaky wheels will get some attention. Surely we are not the only new development condo buyers experiencing this kind of treatment, so it would be a good story for them, too, tying in to the state of the real estate market in NYC.

Also, has anyone been able to find out anything about Jacob Frumkin, the developer? I think we should find out where he works and all show up at his office for an impromptu meeting.

Also, for anyone not going to the password -protected blog:
Please write a registered letter to the CEO of Prudential Elliman complaining about their mismanagement of sales and expectations on this project. Not sure if this will do any good, but they should know what's going on and how bad their service is on this project at the ground level.

Dorothy Herman
President & CEO
Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate
575 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022

frustratedbuyer,

I don't believe you deserve this, I would not wish this on anyone. All I am saying is that the general area of this development really isnt that good. The neighborhood and community need a lot of work. I am in looking to buy an apartment myself and even had an offer accepted at 801 riverside drive. When my lawyer looked over the contract he said the building is a little old and that the seller admits in the contract that the building is in fair condition. After I heard that I went back to the seller and told he I have a change in price. I cut my offer by $15K they did not accept and I walked.

I told my broker if they call and want to do business again my next offer will not be as generous. The building was only being offered mortgages by Wells Fargo and thats because Wells Fargo already has the original mortgage on the building. The neighborhood is upcoming, one block away from the train but the building was old. I walked and continue to learn that you can not get emotionally attached. i go into every negotiation taking at least 10% percent off asking sometimes 15%. I believe the main reason prices in some areas of NYC have not gone down is that they sellers are not necessarily in most sell situations. But as the months go by and everyday those that need to trade their 1 bedrooms for a 2 bedroom keep going by the will have to lower their price. I plan on sitting tight until October because I just don't see this ending until next summer.

I actually rent on that street now. The neighborhood where 801 is located is significantly nicer than aqueduct court but yes, i thought 801 was overpriced in my opinion. There are a lot of buildings going condo on that block and the one around the corner. I think shortly, there will be a glut of inventory, so if you can wait, it will be good for you. I actually cannot afford to buy on that block right now.

I understand what you mean about emotional decisions, I can't argue with you there. I wanted central air and a place I didn't have to renovate. If I manage to get out of my contract, I am just going to have to suck it up and get an older place or get out of the city. It feels bad to buy something that you don't actually want (ie one less bathroom) just because its a better "deal". So yeah, emotions run high. Its not just an investment. Its your home. Sigh. Just ranting now.

Any buyers have a status update for us?

Drove by this place over the weekend............Looks deserted....What's the deal with this building?

i went past a couple of weeks ago and didnt look like any progress. have people been in contract for years? are you getting any close date or is the sponsor bankrupt?

oh wow...at last! a support group for us un-importants of aqueduct court! what a mess...i am an only child, but never have i been treated like a stepchild before! they just take your money and ignore you?! yes exactly what they have done to all of us...they took our money and ran! i would love to have a phone call at least ONCE A YEAR to give me an update...but i guess even one call is asking to much for my 30k they have of mine.....imagine that...thirty thousand dollars and not even a phone call.........bitches!

....and a sultry "i am just the messenger" just doesn't cut it from the aqueductagent....everybody over there in that crew @ 479 w 152nd st nyc and that shity elliman crew knew that all the dates they were giving us were bullshit! everybody! and if you knew it was bullshit and you said it anyway....you are part of the problem too....the worst thing you can do after you participate in deception is to lie again and not take responsibility....no you are not the construction manager, the general contractor, the inspectors, nor the developer himself; but you are a human being....and when you see a slew of innocent people getting taken advantage of one after another after another...it is your human responsibility to throw out a warning shot or something! grow a pair, boo! oh but that is not possible because you are going to benefit too with something called a commission! right...your just the messenger.......

I was there with a contract and got put because of the 24 months, just ran away, there are other opportunities on the area and you will get more for your money, chances are the bathrooms won't be as nice but you might actually get to live there

Hi, I've been looking into this building and after seeing these postings are you all still experiencing difficulties? It seems as though you've been in contract for a while and I wanted to know any updates and who, if anyone, has actually moved in?

There's been in contract for 3 years

New to the group. in contract for a long time. cruel and unusual punishment. Saw the building back in June and it was done. All I hear is TCO is applied for which is inaccurate. Why is the first floor of 469 still not closed? It has been in contract for a year and they have people closed in that building?

Another new to the group. If you haven't already looked into exactly what is going on with 479 West 152nd Street you will find this link below VERY informative.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=1&houseno=479&street=west+152+street&requestid=0&s=A03C41B885B461E4F46BD08866A7430E

You can call the Buildings Department and they will walk you through this property profile. You can even talk to an actual plumbing expert (that seems to not have passed inspection, a construction inspector....another problem with passing it's inspection)? Also the fact that there are no more inspections scheduled (which is needed to start the TC of O process going)?????? Below is the link to the buildings department with phone#'s etc.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/bis/glossary.shtml#bcsms50a

happy reading,
fellow participant in a nightmare ps CLOSINGS..... ??????????? the building needs a TC of O, that means passing all inspections

have these units closed yet?

I am under contract and NO they haven't closed yet. I have been trying to get into the blog that was set up for months and no one is responding. Does anyone else under contract want to talk?????? Even the most minute bit of information would be greatly appreciated.

Has anybody been able to get out of their contract recently? We are trying to pull out because we have been in contract for 13 months. We finally decided to find another place and now the sponsors are saying they will not refund our money because they are expecting to get the TCO in one week. We have been told this for almost a year and want to close on a place before the April 30 tax incentive deadline. If anyone has any information, PLEASE share! We are getting desperate.

best wishes and good luck

i got out after my 24 months expired. had to deal with same "next week" promises. sooooo glad i got away from this cancer. the one piece of good news: once my 24 months was up, my lawyers sent a letter and i had my deposit -- plus interest -- back within 48 hours.

Does anyone have an update about this building? I was considering taking a look but all of these posts about the delays make me nervous to even look in case I like something and have the same problem. Has anyone moved in yet? So sorry to hear about all the problems...I hope they've made it right by now.

I wish I had seen this thread before I signed the lease on an apartment here. I should have worried when they kept changing their mind about things even BEFORE I signed the lease. The woman who showed me the apartment said I could rent on the top floor. She said I could have a two year lease. When it came time to put it in writing, things changed. No top floor apartment (they're saving that for buyers) and no long leases. Of course this was two weeks after I had seen it. The agent would say one thing. The developer another. One thing I made very clear: you will make repairs, won't you? That's your responsibility, right? Yes, of course, said the developer. Unless you take a hatchet to things on purpose.

My first night of move-in. I go back to the old apartment to pick up a few last things. Come back. The front door keys don't work. I call the agent. She never checked to see if they worked. It's the night of the tornado. The only one who will come in is 1 1/2 hours out on Long Island. Great. But the doors are so flimsy that I can open them with a credit card. Great. It takes them many days to address this security issue.

Next day. No hot water. No light in the bathroom. No water in the kitchen sink. No water in the fridge dispenser. No gas working on the stove. And I have to go to work. Front door buzzer doesn't work. No virtual doorman as promised in their website. The list is long of things that they have not checked.

Also, I have a key to the mailbox, but the mailman doesn't. Forget about the runaround I get trying to find out which post office I have to hunt down to find my mail. I still haven't gotten mail and it's the 19th of Oct. The Aqueduct Court agent said the week before last that the mailboxes have to be inspected and that should have happened last week. Also found out that the building has to be 40% occupied to receive mail. Management tells us 20%, but I've confirmed with two post offices that the number is 40%.

Basically, my fears of a minimally responsive management seem to have come true. I like the apartment itself. Love the neighborhood. Oh, and this is a doozie: I have hot water feeding into my guest toilet. And hot water and cold water pipes are switched in this bathroom. So I can scald my guests. And since I'm paying for all utilities, the bill will be wonderful. And in the master bathroom, the toilet doesn't have enough pressure to flush so it's unusable. Both times I've been told that these toilet/bathroom issues wouldn't be fixed. Now that I've complained enough times, they've relented, but have not given me any timing. They offered $250 discount off rent, which is hardly enough for all the discomfort, lack of security and extra time and expenses that I have incurred.

Be sure to ask LOTS of questions before you sign anything, is all I'm saying. And make sure things work. Just sayin'. Perhaps from a buyer's perspective, there's a much better viewpoint.

One other thing. I checked out the link posted above (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=1&houseno=479&street=west+152+street&requestid=0&s=A03C41B885B461E4F46BD08866A7430E) and found out that the temporary certificate of occupancy expired last week.

I called the NYC Buildings Department on Monday, Oct 18, and to their knowledge, no new certificate has been applied for. So technically, they don't even seem to have a current certificate of occupancy. Also, there was one curious notation on the certificate for a "non-commercial theater club" in the basement" with a maximum occupancy of 73 people. Have no idea what that is about.

So I finally saw Jacob Frumkin just now. He has not returned any of my emails except for leaving a message nearly three weeks ago. Today he said he wouldn't given that he didn't like my tone. Basically, I told him that we need to talk about the terms of the lease, given that he had not lived up to the terms of what his website promised. When I talked about moving out he basically said he'd ruin my credit. And when I asked him if he had a certificate of occupancy he looked straight at me and said "No." Then, he basically asked if I had been to "that" website -- the NYC buildings website. Of course I had. Then he said that "yes," he had a certificate of occupancy. I said how can your answer be yes or no. One has to be a lie. And I have every right to do research. It IS my business. This is ridiculous.

And we found out that they finally got the mailboxes inspected and they failed inspection and have to be reconfigured, which will delay mail delivery even longer. What a farce.

I live in 469. Sorry to hear about your ordeals. Looks like the they got a new TC of O now for 479, based on DOB site.

To aqueductcourtrenter: Which unit are you in? We put down a deposit on a unit in the building and see that it has been rented without our permission. We have reached our 24-month contract expiration and are waiting for the return of our deposit.

This place doesn't look lived in at all. There'a graffiti on the outside of the building. A poor attempt at landscaping and garbage and piles of dog poop that don't seem to ever be cleared. I checked out the building and the apartments actually look really nice - beautiful kitchens and nice bamboo floors, even your own washer and dryer. But the hallways are dirty and unfinished and I can pretty much hear every conversation from the hallway. I took a pass.

What everyone has said here is absolutely correct and now the tenants that have been renting have been told that they must leave at the end of their lease term unless they would like to purchase. The tenants were told about 10 days before Christmas.
People are moving out, but the standards are quite the same - nothing has really changed. As harlemgeek mentioned above, you can hear every conversation from the hallway and the hallways are not consistently cleaned.

So now, these places are going back on the market, but with years of wear and tear. The renters have taken good care, but are pretty much being shoved out.

Anyone living there now? curious to know how it is.