New York prices to collapse?

long speech, cue the band.

financeguy: that is one of the most intelligent discussion, yet. Thank you for the insight.

Financeguy: the nonquantitative return of improvement in quality of life exceeds the quantitative factors. Rentals with their short term nature (ex rent control/stab) does not fit the lifestyle that I seek. If I lose money, I so be it. But so far, I have been lucky or opportunistic.

As many of you know, I have been talking about moving out of Manhattan to pay less for what I think is a better lifestyle for my family... It probably won't happen for another year. We thought we were alone among our friends but more and more are pulling the ripcord, maybe without having discussed it (at least with us) beforehand. Yes, it takes time.

Speaking of leaving Manhattan for better quality of life...
Has anyone found most people that leave end up wanting to come back? Or do they wish they had pulled the cord sooner?

"Has anyone found most people that leave end up wanting to come back? Or do they wish they had pulled the cord sooner?"

the women i know tend to complain for a while that it's not manhattan, but i think that's more of a defensive new kid in school tactic more than anything. by end of first year everyone loves their car, loves their gym/club, loves their house, their group of friends, school and community. that first year there is a lot of hanging out in the city on weekends and coming in during the week for playdates with old friends, but it tends to wean with time. unless you're a socially repulsive weird leper those city day trips and get togethers with a few peeps at some casual joint or the park usually get replaced with the suburban anti manhattan way of socializing - bbqs, pool parties, and casual get togethers at people's houses, with a house full of people. by the way, i have yet to hear of a husband to one of the above mentioned women who did not love everything about his new suburban life almost immediately. my husband bought a sh*tload of tools and gadgets, lawn stuff, we did get that big dog we could have never had in manhattan, so all kinds of dog stuff. boys definitely get a lot more toys to play with out here. but the girls get over themselves and make friends within a year, too. i think it helps the adjustment in many cases that ny suburbs are a very expensive place and all the women out here are into clothes and maintenance, so i think that fear of being surrounded by frumpy fatties disappears fairly quickly. everyone looks good, wears nice clothes, and is plotting their next money spending activities. it's just like the new and improved manhattan crowd but in nice houses and there are more of them and they're friendlier.

that said, i think our plan has evolved and we won't be buying anything until i go back to work in 2ish years because i need to be comfortable with the commute and out lifestyle after that happens. we're pretty deep in the suburban wilderness out here now and i love it, but that may not work in the future. so, life goes on and you adjust!

"so, life goes on and you adjust!"

of course, we are only able to even consider lifestyle changes and be in a position to easily adjust to them because we are of the few, the proud, the RENTERS. tons of houses for rent out here, small, medium, large, whatever you want. you can call up the broker for your dream house that's been on the market for 2 years and offer to sign a 2 year lease, they'll take. of course don't take my word for it, see for yourself.

Lucillebluth-what location are you writing about?
I also meant an over all move...far far far from the island of Manhattan.

i'm in nj suburbs, but i think this is true of most ny metro area commuter towns.

as far as a move to a different place altogether, i guess that depends primarily on your source of income and your ability to maintain it or local equivalent. and your personality and what kind of place you really want to live.

DT: Sure. You mean still in the U.S.? Can't see us leaving Manhattan for the burbs. But I fantasize about moving to London or Spore or Tokyo or ... Too bad none of those places are cheaper than Manhattan.

London - I'm a West End girl, dream place would be right off Kings Road, 10 minutes walk from Sloane Square, 10 minutes walk from the river, quick bus or jog to Hyde Park.

Not sure what you mean by quality of life. There are appealing things about suburban life - I love driving (not with kids!), large vegetable garden, chickens running around laying eggs, the idea of easily accessible high-quality schools. But there just isn't enough time in my day to manage my fantasy yard the way I want it to, and have time to goof off the way I want to. So much depends on what your individual needs are.

Thanks LucilleB - Don't need to be in NY but have been here forever. Still love the energy/culture of the city but it isn't what it used to be for the costs. Prices are not and will not "collapse" here. (back to OP). The 5% still need a place to live.

10023-Yes I meant US.(I do love london & tokyo) Just was curious if there were any posters that moved that returned or moved and never looked back..

"But there just isn't enough time in my day to manage my fantasy yard the way I want it to, and have time to goof off the way I want to"

you're a facebook farmer, aren't you

DTDWIH, there is no reasonably relevant way to answer your question without knowing what kind of person you are, your household situation and the things you like and care about.

Hi LucilleB my initial question was actually wanting to know about other peoples experience with leaving. I can really live anywhere there is a major airport. Self employed.

"Speaking of leaving Manhattan for better quality of life...
Has anyone found most people that leave end up wanting to come back? Or do they wish they had pulled the cord sooner?"

" you can call up the broker for your dream house that's been on the market for 2 years and offer to sign a 2 year lease, they'll take. of course don't take my word for it, see for yourself."

It may take them another 6 after that to ever sell it for what they paid for it in 2006!

FG: "If you aren't willing to invest in a mortgage at 4%, why are you willing to invest in the equity interest junior to that mortgage at 0%? Isn't the equity interest necessarily more risky?"

Exactly. You've established that you think 4.125% with a government guarantee is too cheap for your opportunity cost on 75% senior portion of the home. Hopefully the junior 25% should be something more. Even if you go with something relatively modest like 7%, then you end up with 5% overall on a cash purchase. Maybe take out the govt guarantee and put a higher opportunity cost, you end up at 6%.

You say you have money in stocks. You also have decided to take a mortgage on your second home (and maybe your first, I don't know) rather than sell your stocks and pay down the mortgage. While we cannot precisely pin down the opportunity cost you are really placing on your cash at different levels of equity in your home from these actions, we can figure out the general ballpark. It won't be anything like 0%.

All that said, when you sell your place in 15 years for a 10% nominal profit, you'll feel fine. The issues of what mortgage rate you paid, your opportunity costs, maintenance, renovation, transaction costs, and comparisons to rent will all be washed over, and you won't care. Even if, say, a proper accounting puts you at a 30% loss. If prices fall 10% next year from where you bought and you have a need to sell, you'll fight it tooth & nail.

I know people with what I assume to now be $500K+ income living in a modest 2006-bought 1BR coop with a kid, having visitors, etc. Why don't they sell and go into something more appropriate to their needs and means? They don't want to have a loss compared to what they paid.

I haven't left yet, but pretty sure that I won't regret it. Maybe do a careful analysis of your life and figure out what you like doing, and are the enjoyable parts replicable somewhere else?

For me (assuming kids are in an okay school somewhere - and the okay will change with time and needs):
1) access to good outdoor running
2) proximity to gym/s
3) proximity to food stores, inc. ethnic stuff
4) restaurants
5) babysitting (either family or easy-to-find evening sitters)
6) somewhere that our friends & family can and want to visit easily or if not, someplace where we can take off for 2-3 months to visit them
7) I like to live around people - I wouldn't do well in the countryside 365 days of the year. Irrelevant whether I talk to them.

For #2 & #3, prefer to be within 15 mins. walk. And of course, this is all assuming that there is enough space for my family to live comfortably.

Forgot 8) Commute is less than 40 mins. door to door. Unless of course, all this is achievable without leaving the house to go to work.

Hey lucille, I always like the houses for sale you post that are in NJ. I have no need for a grotesquely large & fancy place in the suburbs, but I like looking at them. Only problem is that the "for sale" ones don't really tickle my fancy because I'm not into that sort of thing.

BUT, could you post for us some well-priced high-end rentals for us to gawk at? Things that would sell for $2M+, the higher the better.

Mercer: "Nada being able to rent at 20% discount to the market price potentially due to willing to wait till last few weeks to rent and having a flexible budget of ($7-10K)."

Mercer, that isn't actually my budget. I just discuss that ballpark with you because that's your ballpark. Also, I think you & I have much a much wider difference on rents. You think that for a $1000 ppsf place, you'd pay $5 a month in rent per sq ft. Normalized to that same $1000 ppsf, I pay $2.4 with a late 2010 lease. It's certainly an inonada special (think of it as rent stabilization paid for by the wealthy for the benefit of the wealthy), but I sure don't think the general market is the 2X away that you think it is.

Just to show that "inonada specials" can be found in all corners, I submit to you the following. Here's 30Q in the iconic tower of the Century, a NE-corner 900 sq ft 1BR with direct & sweeping park views. Sold for $2.1M to an investor:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/the-century-condominium

This investor was kind enough to rent it out at $6300, or the equivalent of $3 a sq ft after normalizing the price to $1000 ppsf:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/738645-condo-25-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

Good deal? Yeah, sure. Until you run across 27Q three floors below at $4500:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/795243-rental-25-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

That's $2.15 a normalized sq ft, but maybe condition is worse, hard to tell, but you get the picture.

sure! the thing about renting here though is you really do have to go through a broker, you can finds sales on trulia and realtor, but a lot of the rentals i often see driving around don't show up online and i can't stress enough the fact that just about any house that's for sale for 1 year is realistically a possible rental, you can make a deal with these people.

here's one
http://www.trulia.com/rental/3050998289-29-Gordon-Rd-Essex-Fells-NJ-07021

but again, i know of at least 2 other houses for rent in essex fells, i drive by them everyday, big FOR RENT sign in front, they are not in the system.

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3063218226-Single-Family-Home-Montclair-NJ-07043

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3055926764-54-Melrose-Pl-Montclair-NJ-07042

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3030668809-6-Hathaway-Ln-Verona-NJ-07044

this isn't so sexy, but a very nice house in a good town for the money

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3036178725--Millburn-Millburn-NJ-07078

same here, but this looks brand spanking new

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3060995580-519-Lawrence-Ave-Westfield-NJ-07090

there are more, i see them driving every day. you need to work with a broker out here though.

oh i totally missed the 2 million part, i only found one like that in the system

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3061690179-1-Dellwood-Dr-Madison-NJ-07940

but you can rent many more, as i keep repeating like rain man

Good stuff, lucille. I like this one best so far:

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3055926764-54-Melrose-Pl-Montclair-NJ-07042

Now WTF am I gonna do with 8 BRs?

FG, this had me laughing hard:

"mysterious forces are going to generate Zimbabwe-style inflation because we have a president with a Swahili middle name"

Pure genius.

Flmaoz...... good one Financeguy.

WHO THE FK earns less on a junior unsecured position to a more senior secured one? Finance 101.

inonada => "I pay $2.4 with a late 2010 lease. It's certainly an inonada special (think of it as rent stabilization paid for by the wealthy for the benefit of the wealthy)"

BINGO. It's like watching two millionaire prof hockey player punch themselves silly. The general population don't give a shit, but to the two millionaires... someone is getting the short end of the exchange....

BTW, I got an Inonada special too, listed for sale for $1200psf.... maybe there are more than 2 posters on SE renting a $1500psf condo for less than $2.5 sq ft? :)

-my daughter projectile vomited on the "owners" carpet twice this week with a stomach flu.. chkn and noodles easy to get out... the chkn and noodles with chocolate ice cream, not so much- I really thought she was over it... should have listened to my wife.

>-my daughter projectile vomited on the "owners" carpet twice this week with a stomach flu.. chkn and noodles easy to get out... the chkn and noodles with chocolate ice cream, not so much- I really thought she was over it... should have listened to my wife.

ooh, those ape diseases can be tough on the children monkeys. Hope she gets better.

The fact that you're renting n NJ explains everything.

really? like what?

Having two sibling sin the suburbs my questions about this would be:

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3055926764-54-Melrose-Pl-Montclair-NJ-07042

Are utilities included? Landscaping/plowing The sheer age of this probably means it's oil heat and that's in the middle of winter quite the bill and summer, yet another slap from PSE&G. Plus the two cars you now need and the insurance on both cars. Plus the commute time to work. Montclair is not terrible but by bus a nice wait at the Lincoln tunnel and then a trek to the office from port authority. Train might be better but unless spouse drops you off parking can be a bitch. All the little hidden time costs and literal costs start to make a big house in the suburbs also an absolute money suck.

fair enough. but you made a pretty personal comment up there,

eliz181144
45 minutes ago
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The fact that you're renting n NJ explains everything.

can you please clarify what you mean by this and what sorts of things you have been able to infer from my status as a renter in nj? thank you.

lucille, nothing disparaging. Just where you might be coming from. We did a lot of the math/QOL scenarios about moving our family to the suburbs. In fact, sometimes when I am dragging my pregnant self off the subway with two young boys I think it's a good idea. But, at least for us, it would be entirely the wrong decision. Partly for the questions/points I laid out about the Montclair listing.

that's a very cryptic and wordy explanation for a fairly straightforward and concise original statement. so if you don't mind i think i'll press you further.

"The fact that you're renting n NJ explains everything."

what sort of non disparaging things are you talking about in the above sentence?

If I had a teleporter that beamed me from my home to work I'd live in the glorious rolling wasteland know as the suburbs. A phat house with 2, no make that a 3 car garage, big yard space boarding park land or a golf club. A huge basement converted to a gym/playroom/home theater blah, blah, blah.
It's the commute that would kill me.
Just getting from one place to another where the commute time excedes 1 hour door to door is just too brutal. Most of the burbs takes take that kind of time plus. Don't give me that Port Washington Great Neck story. Ok, you leave your house and it's close to the train and you have a timely willing spouse so you don't have to park and walk to the platform. That's 10 minutes. Now your on the platform and you time it so that you arrive just 6 minutes before the train arrives. 22 minutes your pulling into Penn Station. 6 minutes to get yourself out of the station. Now for the variable comute time depending on your job location. Let's think easy...you work in midtown and can walk 15 minutes to the building and then the 5 minutes for the elevator to he desk.
That's the best comute I could imagine....time = 53minutes. Let's round up to an hour because...when the heck does it ever go right. So you got the best comute in the tristate area and it still take 2 hours a day. Times that by 5 and and we account for one whole work day per week. The comute does have value. It's gives you a chance to mentally unwind on the way home, it also gives you a chance to get anxious on the way to work esp. if your a little late. Now add in all the ways it doesn't go right.
Maybe it was the kids that draged you to the burbs. You need space for kids. A boy and a girl will ultimatly need seperate bedrooms so a minimum is a 3 bedroom. That's gonna cost you even under the best conditions here on the island. Then there's the school story. In the burbs, it's district dependent. On gross analysis I'd favor suburban public schools over city public schools. Not every kid gets into Hunter or does H.S. at bronx science. If you have the means to take it private the city wins...hands down.
If you have a family, socially, the burbs win. My subran friends have a much grander more organized social structure that I could ever imagine for myself. Busy busy busy they are with each other's lives. Lots of gossip, back stabbing, material envy, infidelity, Costco, mall walking, gasoline prices....it goes on and on and on....
City is starting to look easy.

"maybe there are more than 2 posters on SE renting a $1500psf condo for less than $2.5 sq ft? :)"

No, absolutely not, w67th. You and I are the only ones with such things. And in my case, it's only because I wait until the last second (i.e., 6-7 weeks before my target date) before I look. Everyone else pays $5. Everyone else gets their rent jacked 5-10% every year and does nothing about it, not even in 2009, other than whimper. That 27th-floor $4500 900 sq ft corner 1BR on CPW with direct park views does not exist, and the sale 3 floors above for $2.1M never happened. Besides, Central Park gets too busy on the weekends so most people prefer living in Fidi and paying $4200 to look at a brick wall because you can pay the rent with Amex. Free trip to Thailand every year, plus $3600 cash. You know how far $3600 will get you in Thailand?

No one else pay what we pay. Oh, except apt23 too paying $5-6 a month for her $2000 ppsf place. And malthus at $3.6 for his Tribeca loft. You know, the fancy one with an elevator and windows.

But that's it.

Well said falcocrazy1, well said.

Ok, some respect:
Well said falcogold1, well said.

"My subran friends have a much grander more organized social structure that I could ever imagine for myself. Busy busy busy they are with each other's lives. Lots of gossip, back stabbing, material envy, infidelity"

lol, choose manhattan for its humble lifestyle, morally superior denizens, and wholesome family values.

"what sort of non disparaging things are you talking about in the above sentence?"

Giving Eliz the benefit of the doubt, I think she is saying that knowing your conclusion (deciding to rent in NJ), the reasoning behind your choice is obvious.

FTR, I read it as disparaging as well. Probably just an unintentional choice of phrasing.

that's totally cheating, giving eliz181144 an out like that.

"Lots of gossip, back stabbing, material envy, infidelity, Costco, mall walking, gasoline prices....it goes on and on and on.... "

Look at all the time & money you'll save by cancelling cable TV -- you've got the real thing live.

"that's totally cheating, giving eliz181144 an out like that."

You're right. Lay into her. I think she lives in Upper Manhattan. Tsk tsk...

Ino: Are you going to try to stay where you are when your lease is up? I rented for three years. Landlord has already said he would like to rent to us again. I'm thinkin that by the time the lease is up--about 18 months-- the economy is going to look a bit bleak. I'm thinkin I can roll back the rent a bit. Any thoughts?

Re: living in NJ burbs. I was recently talking to a young married couple in their late 20's who both have very hip, exciting jobs in the art world. They both make very good money. Both very beautiful. They moved to NJ about a year ago. I thought it was because they wanted to start a family. But nope. They rent and have no plans yet for family. They like the space -- and the price. They complain about the commute cause they sometimes have to work late but they love living out of city. I asked if they felt left out of the social scene since they couldn't possibly see their hipster friends as often. Nope. The hipsters converge on their house in NJ on the weekends. Now, some of their friends are moving to rentals close by. I was very surprised. You couldn't have pried me out of manhattan at their age. But then again, Manhattan was not so expensive when I was their age.

I'm almost 1 year into my 3-year lease, but I can break any time with 60-90 days notice. I've got a very good deal, and at this point I don't think I can do any more than incrementally better at best, and we've just gotten settled into the new place / 'hood. So no motivator to change at this point.

Are you paying like 3% on top of your original rent? That's still very good given what you got. I'm not one to negotiate w/ an existing owner over 3% just because the market is flat. Terrible for goodwill. So, nothing for you to do at the moment IMO. Where will we be in 18 months -- who knows? It does feel like the latest problems, particularly at banks, has coincided with the winter slowdown at the moment. I sense that is opening up some nice opportunities at the $3000-5000 range where things had been tight, like the 25 CPW one I posted.

I had some friend back in the day that answered to the hipster/arties description who also moved to the burbs. They also told similar tales. Fast forward to today...sweatsuit wearing, minivan driving, suburbanites whose beautiful bodies have been 'Costcoized to size'. Yeah....it all worked out. You know the wife of the couple has a beard. I'm not talking ZZ Tops or the Pine Brothers. It's that peach fuz beard that seems to be the 'in' thing. When I mentioned the wife's beard to my friend...he had not noticed.
Love is grand.........and blind.

Ino:Yup --3%. You are right. Not good for goodwill and we enjoy a great relationship right now. And LL is my downstairs neighbor. So point well taken. I don't want to move. I love the hood.

lucille - as I said - not disparaging at all. I think the fact that you're in another state makes this a different conversation for you. In fact, if you're happily living in another state why join to debate. I guess I can kind of see it but I don't log onto boards and discuss San Francisco RE or Chicago RE. I know quite a bit about NJ real estate because my sisters live there and we researched it heavily before deciding to buy where we did.

And what's the the sudden SE etiquette? West34 called me a motherfucker yesterday and alanhart (rest his soul) loves to trash my neighborhood. It's all in good fun. As inonanda said, if you really think I was being a bitch there is so much to pick apart: I overpopulate the planet, I make them live in a ghetto, I wear mom jeans and don't work...etc...

Inonada: you have very good rental luck. I also left it to the last 4 weeks once. Didn't work so well for us :) Also, our parameters were narrower.

Eliz: that's not entirely fair. There are many people on this board who provide valuable input and who no longer live in NYC.

Falco: agree with you.

Kinda tired of this suburb-city debate. Gotta do what makes you happy within your economic constraints. Hard to say whether your children will be happier-smarter-whatever if they grew up in burbs v. city. Analogous to asking whether they'd be the same people if they grew up with different parents.

falco --say it aint so! the hipsters 'Costcoized to size'.??? too funny.

10023: Analogous to asking whether they'd be the same people if they grew up with different parents. ---- a perfect analogy.

falco, i think your couple friend's infidelity and envy problems may stem less from their suburban lifestyle, and more from the facts that he is married to a bearded lady and she is married to a sweatsuit wearing fat guy.

eliz181144, i agree, it would be positively eccentric for you to participate on sf and chicago real estate boards if you have no prior connection to those cities.

"Inonada: you have very good rental luck."

I've had my share of bad luck as well. Once pulled my offer on a place with 3-4 weeks left because the LL was behaving sketchy. That was an anxious week, but it all turned out well as I found another great place the next week. My strategy that leads to good "luck" is actually the product of a lot of sweat, blood, & tears. A wider search parameter also helps, of course.

"I'm not talking ZZ Tops or the Pine Brothers. "

Too bad, I've heard those carnival gigs pay well.

>My strategy that leads to good "luck" is actually the product of a lot of sweat, blood, & tears. A wider search parameter also helps, of course.

Finding a place and moving are considered among the most stressful events of people's lives.

And many people have family and lifestyle considerations that don't allow for "wider search parameter[s]".

do you people ever go outside?

so we all agreed; taxes are going up, jobs(high paying ones anyway more importantly) are going away, crime and quality of life in NYC will be getting worse, baby boomers that are working are still in debt (paying for their kids education and there elderly parents old folks homes) have not saved enough for retirement, will not be getting social security or medicare and we are headed for stagflation... so what did you all say was going to happen to NYC RE price.

I think they are going lower.

what did everyone else agree on?

You forgot the part about the hipsters moving out to morph from ironic trucker hat wearing urbanites to ironic sweatsuit wearing suburbanites. Williamsburg is screwed.

Nada - thanks for reminding me about that thread. Too funny to think that people thought $3.6 per sqft must only get you a windowless walkup in Tribeca (do those exist?). Actually my windows could be cleaned more often but I content myself with using the new washer-dryer I didn't buy when the old one broke down recently.

Why oh why are my comments being erased. I thought censorship - any censorship was bad. People on this board think otherwise I guess.

After reading some of these comments putting down people with bad outfits who weight to much, all I could think of was a song I heard tonight:
"they were all impressed with your Halston dress
and the people that you knew at Elaine's
and the story of your latest success kept them all entertained....

you had to have the last word...last night
so much fun to be around
You had to have the white hot spot light
You had to be a big shot big shot

You get my drift.

Of course you won't let me post this. Because as you put it, I'm "new to Streeteasy Talk." There's something terribly wrong with this site.

Maybe it's a reflection of what's wrong with NYC.

Washer / dryer??? Oh, you must mean a washboard & clothesline. Yeah, I'm gonna see if we can get ours replaced too.

Just for no reason........

My personal observations of infidelity wrt the people I know:
The burbes produce a greater number of cheaters than Manhattan (UES). I really know a huge # of folks as compares to most. I do see divorce in and out of the city. Reasons for divorce in the city, he/she: insane, workaholic, inattentive, cold, no sex, grew apart, loser, work issues, income issues, bad match, but mostly mild undiagnosed mental disorders. In the burbs it's alway....cheater.

Big homes, good public schools, closet space AND side action.
Commute not looking so bad.

falco, this is pretty much consistent with what i have seen among people older than my own little group of friends. i'd add though that when people cheat and split for their affair, it's usually someone in the same age and social range as their first spouse, and very often is's someone they knew socially when they were married. not a whole lot of visible cradle robbing/cougar action. everybody who is cheating is sexing their friends. not sure how i feel about this yet. heh.

"what did everyone else agree on?"

so i guess you can say we just agreed that the crazies stay in manhattan and the horny people move to the burbs. although it's possible that what we actually agreed to is that life in manhattan makes people crazy with it's stress, competition and social alienation despite the constant presence of hordes of people everywhere you are. and life in the burbs makes people get their groove back with it's basically inclusive high school/college way of socializing and the constant presence of people just like you who want to be friends everywhere you go.

Don't forget the beards.
Sure they tickle a little but, they distract you for the horrible feeling of infidelity and the less than sexy sweat suit.

The men are no prize either.

luci,
they still got key parties out there?

i don't know what that means and please don't tell me!

you'll have to google that one out for yourself

> When I mentioned the wife's beard to my friend...he had not noticed.

How the hell did you bring this up? Must be a very close friend.

Falco,
A lot of married men LOVE the 1+ hour commute. It's the highlight of their miserable lives. The only "me" time they get. If they had a 5 min. commute, they'd put a bullet in their heads.

> Reasons for divorce in the city, he/she: insane, workaholic, inattentive, cold, no sex, grew apart, loser, work issues, income issues, bad match, but mostly mild undiagnosed mental disorders. In the burbs it's alway....cheater

Can you elaborate on "income issues"?

Work too much = workaholic
Work too little = "income issues"
Women are fucking nuts.

> mostly mild undiagnosed mental disorders

Like which?

lucillebluth
"what did everyone else agree on?"

so i guess you can say we just agreed that the crazies stay in manhattan and the horny people move to the burbs. although it's possible that what we actually agreed to is that life in manhattan makes people crazy with it's stress, competition and social alienation despite the constant presence of hordes of people everywhere you are. and life in the burbs makes people get their groove back with it's basically inclusive high school/college way of socializing and the constant presence of people just like you who want to be friends everywhere you go.

falcogold1

Don't forget the beards.
Sure they tickle a little but, they distract you for the horrible feeling of infidelity and the less than sexy sweat suit.

THis is why NY RE is going to collapse?

There is a major flaw in your analysis, Lucille.

People in NYC cheat way more, they just don't get caught as easily, if ever.
Anonymity is a whole different ballgame, and people NEVER cross paths.
You can support 2 different marriages in the same BUILDING, and never get caught.

In suburbia, it's pretty obvious with the one person you're having an affair with.
Smaller town, people can see your whereabouts. Car in the driveway. etc.
You see these people regularly.

NYC is full of the cheaters.
10x more cheating opportunities than suburbanites.
They just divorce for different "official" reasons.

that may br true of annonymous people, but contrary to popular beliefs, in new york your world is still usually limited to your neighborhood, your circle of friends, and your regularly frequented locales. even in nyc, your friends know what you're up to. your wife does, too, she just doesn't care because you pay her bills.

Deal boy
Income issues...too much, too little, not as much as......

Mental disorders....ask your shrink for his ICD-9 Dx book. Open random to any page and jab finger in book....that one.

"THis is why NY RE is going to collapse?"

yes. everyone will move to the suburbs and start sleeping with their friends' spouses. people appreciate stability in their infidelity.

Since we are positing old strings, just for giggles... I laugh when I read this one. The vitriol with which some of these posters dished out was horrible. I wonder where lucillebluth is now?

I just scanned some of these -- they even postdate the time at which predicting a crash was 6 years old and I had stopped reading about it because it seemed already disproven -- so here's a good one 3 yrs ago, paraphrasing it: Manhattan takes longer to get hit by crashes and then is worst hit. So it's taking SUCH an awfully long time to hit, because in 2015 it hasn't even reached Queens.

SE should make a coctail table book comprised of "best of" threads. I am sad the some of the more vibrant personalities are no longer posting; it was the best reality show a few years ago.

Typos above worse than usual - sorry; handheld touchscreen.