Washington Heights near Columbia-Pres?

I should add, things I want to know about are proximity to public trans, proximity to groceries and errands, restaurants in the area, general vibe of the neighborhood, attractiveness of area, noise at night... but any info is appreciated!

The subway is a block away at 157th St. on Broadway.

what's the next one up from that?

168 St. That is an express stop with more trains available.

dude - look at a subway map. With questions like this, it's not likely you will pass the board interview.

yes, the next time your in the subway, ask for a map from the person inside the booth. They are free. Here is a subway map:

http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/submap.htm

What person in the booth?

If you haven't checked it out yet, you may prefer the Hudson Heights section, which is between 181st and 192nd (west of Broadway). While its farther uptown, the A train runs express. Those living in the 150's generally take the 1 train, which runs local. I find it funny when some one living in the 150's says they won't more that far north...but I get downtown faster than they.
Besides good transport, there are MANY more restaurant and grocery options in the 180's than the 150's. In a few-block stretch of 187th you have a Key Food, Associated, and Frank's gourmet grocery. Restaurants and services at 181 and 187 include thai, italian, starbucks, sushi, wine bars, bakeries, pubs etc. You won't find the selection you do downtown, but we certainly have options.
Green space is another plus. We have access to the riverside park bike path, bennett park, and Fort Tryon Park with the Cloisters museum.
I'm totally biased because I've lived in Hudson Heights for six years now and love it. But honestly, every time I visit friends around 150-155th at RSD, I say to myself, "I wouldn't live here."

mrs1007 - we live on 157th/Broadway. What questions do you have? It's def. worth a look for space. If you like pre-war and need space, this is a great area. It's still fairly priced, IMO. Yes, it's safe (though alanhart will be here any second to say it's not) and it's true we need more restaurants. Overall, if you're looking for a large apartment close to a subway you'll probably find what you're looking for. We looked for a long time before we took the plunge and are pleased with the area. We thought we'd be miserable not living downtown but it wasn't bad at all. Another area that we considered seriously was in the lower 140s - there is a subway stop on 145th. With the Columbia expansion I don't think you can go wrong anywhere from 125-however high you want to go. Personally, I prefer west of Amsterdam but I know a lot of the younger crowd tends to venture further east where it's very cheap.

We would love to find something in HH but have not had any luck yet - we're actually considering a place in Hudson Heights/ Inwood, but know very little about the area. We really do not want to need a car and prefer to walk to things like groceries and errands, and a med quick trip to Times Square for work (app. 30 min or less).

Yes, the subway questions were redundant, as so many of you were quick to point out. I will prob not be holding a screaming baby during any board interviews so my brain cells will be more intact and I will have time to look up subways - was hoping there was an express train nearby.

The subway issue- at least during the workweek- is one which pleasantly surprised me. From the 181st A stop it's about a 22 minute ride (I timed it before buying a place) to Times Square. This is quicker than taking the 1 from somewhere slightly south. Trains run every 5 minutes or so during rush hour. That said, if you find yourself enjoying a night out downtown without the baby, know that trains run local late night and you'll probably want to factor in cab fare for anywhere south of 14th st.

Groceries, pharmacies, restaurants, coffee shops, etc are all abundant with HH. No need for a car.

"Groceries, pharmacies, restaurants, coffee shops, etc are all abundant with HH."

But they're all pretty crappy.

You'd do better to stick with above 168th Street, WEST of Broadway.

The whole area is an absolute toilet since NYCMatt lives there. But seriously, it's a fine area, especially for those wanting something a bit more quiet than downtown Manhattan, provided you're a bit removed from 168th/Broadway, which the OP would be. It's actually rather loud with all the traffic, hospital stuff going on, and general bustle. But there are some great blocks as you explore the neighborhood - as always, it's worth taking the time to check it out by foot.

now we're looking hard at inwood - it looks like there are a lot of parks and decent public transportation options - are there nearby amenities like restaurants and grocery stores up there? is all of that green space as beautiful as it looks on the map? we're going to investigate this weekend

Inwood is lovely. My friends priced out further south have settled there. I believe Fresh Direct delivers. Fort Tryon Park is fabulous and the New Leaf restaurant there is always packed. The public elementary school is decent, too.

You'd do better to stick with above 168th Street, WEST of Broadway. <---NYCMatt, you're starting to sound like Rain Man. Every post you make seems to have this in it. Did you build a condo building or something here and need sales/rentals? That statement should be your auto signature.

You're that is and the comment is directed to NYC MATT

eliz, yeh it's almost as if NYCMatt overpaid in WashHi, and he's trying to pump up the area to get the large demo who are priced out of UWS/MornHi/UES to totally bypass anything in between their nabes and schlep straight to 181

That's exactly what I think. We're all have high hopes for where we buy/rent but he is downright bizarre with his 168th Street, WEST of Broadway chant. I'd love to know what the agenda is.

>Fort Tryon Park is fabulous and the New Leaf restaurant there is always packed.

The Heather Garden at Ft. Tryon Park is the real jewel, but also the parks' peak elevation which offers great views, and then some good variable elevation running trails.

Inwood Hill Park is a more open, flat park further up in Inwood that has more "park" merits to it.

The New Leaf Restaurant though is more your "ladies lunching" type of place than anything. Might be a reason to visit, but not to live there.

I agree. I take my mother and sisters there when they're in from NJ. It's nice day trip.

We're headed there this weekend to scope it out - my main concerns are commute time to the UWS and Times Square since we have classes and work in those areas, and proximity to stores (groceries, drugstores). I really do not want to live anywhere where I need to have a car - it's one of my favorite things about living in the city. Also, this sounds silly, but is there a cafe or coffee shop in the neighborhood?

I lived on 160th and Edgecombe (very pretty stretch and across the street from the Morris Jumel Mansion) for 2 years, it's safe enough though my wife did not feel particularly comfortable walking from the subway late (especially) winter nights. If you do have a car, expect a smashed window a few times a year, it's epidemic. Don't take my word for it, speak with the local police (170th?)

As much as we appreciated our large, pre war two bedroom with a DM, $1500 per month, you quickly grow tired of the absolute lack of restaurants, cafes, grocery stores etc. and we had a car so would make a weekly trip to the Fairway on 125th street. If I owned I guess I would justify it, but that said I would never purchase in that area, sales activity way to thin, I would feel trapped, As a renter, no problem- we just moved on with fond memories of our two years there.

Inwood is a much better quality of life in my opinion, West side above 180th street, check out Chittenden ave, charming street with breath taking views of NJ. Also 186th street and 187th offer up some nice amenities and the easy access to the parks is a real plus. In my opinion if you are considering a purchase, this area is a much better bet (as long as you have an expected hold time of 7-10 years), otherwise rent and give it a test run, plenty of affordable rentals.

I represented a buyer for a place on Chittenden, the listing broker was Simone Song a local, long established shop. The agent was Enrique Gonzalez, very knowledgeable about the area. This is not an endorsement, as I just don't know him/them well enough, but he was a pleasure to deal with.

http://simonesong.com/

http://www.morrisjumel.org/

Keith Burkhardt
The Burkhardt Group
http://ubivoletaudentunicornium.blogspot.com/

We are looking up by Park Terrace East and West in the low 200s... is this generally considered a nice area as well?

all of the above areas discussed are great. i personally would chose whichever one had the best apartment. I think the 'west of Broadway' line is subjective, but it's pretty hard to dispute that there is not a difference in the cleanliness of the streets.
That said, the 150-160 Riverside area is great and very safe - I've been here 2 years. Got a huge apartment and love the neighborhood. Amenities are a bit better in the 180's west of Broadway and the area is more gentrified...starbucks, over priced Thai etc. But the 150's area is beautiful and getting nicer and if you get out you'll find there's not tooo much lacking. On 165th there's a great pizza spot, nice cafe, dessert place, killer wine shop on 159th and amsterdam, coogan's bar on 168th, etc....it's mostly all nearby.

Inwood IMO is a bit far, though this is totally subjective. Probably not once you're there...FYI the area around Dyckman and Broadway is very nice and loaded with amenities and the great park access.

"eliz, yeh it's almost as if NYCMatt overpaid in WashHi, and he's trying to pump up the area to get the large demo who are priced out of UWS/MornHi/UES to totally bypass anything in between their nabes and schlep straight to 181"

Yeah, it is funny. I can get certain parts of upper Manhattan are sketchier than others, this is obvious. But he says in very colorful terms that EVERYTHING from east 96th or West 110th north all the way to 168th (but EAST of Broadway) is utter ghetto trash and overprices by 100-200%. Not a typo or exageration. He consistently says that Harlem and East Harlem are worth no more than $200-$300 PSF. Even the high-end (for Harlem) places on CPE and CPN or FDB. All worth no more than $300 PSF, and all will get you ass raped past 6 PM.

But HIS area? Its essentially the same as 72nd and Park.

I'm glad SOMEONE gets it.

KeithB,
Just so you know, the area you described as Inwood (west 180's), is actually the Hudson Heights section of Washington Heights. Inwood begins on the north side of Fort Tryon Park at Dyckman street.
I actually bought a condo on Cabrini Blvd through Simone Song, and I too recommend them to anyone interested in the neighborhood.

The comma after "in my opinion" should have been a period. I always knew that area as "Hudson Heights" in the 180's on the west side. But we are splitting hairs, whatever you want to call it, I agree it's nice and IMHO more desirable than say the 150's-168ish corridor on either side of Broadway.

ynotie29: I should lay off SE when I'm working, I now see you refer to it as HH, I though you were calling it WH's.

"EVERYTHING from east 96th or West 110th north all the way to 168th (but EAST of Broadway) is utter ghetto trash"

huh, so w114th or w149th b/w Bway and Amstdam = e132nd/madison???

pass to the left.

I've lived in Inwood for several years. I believe it's bounded by 200th Street to the south. Anything south of 200th is Washington Heights.

Inwood has pros and cons. I live in a very nice building, west of Bway, nice neighbors. The apt is big and fairly priced.

But the con's are:

1) Lots of street noise at night
2) It's a long schlep for your friends downtown -- 3 hours roundtrip to Bklyn (with a return trip after 11 pm, when the A train goes local).
3) No good grocery
4) No movies or other amenities

I would say, if you can find a good deal on a park-facing block, maybe do it. Indian Road is in the northern part of Inwood and much of it faces a big beautiful park -- I would buy there myself if something came available, and the price was halfway decent.

Payson Ave is another park-facing block, but that park is very wild and not one you would walk in alone, even during the day. It's pretty to look at but you won't use it so much.

But you don't want to live on the avenues -- they're extremely noisy. Broadway and Seaman Ave you should stay away from.

Even if you find a nice deal on a quiet block, it's a compromise. You'll do all your food shopping downtown and schlep the groceries up on the train, and your friends will not visit as often. But isn't everything in New York a compromise?

"But isn't everything in New York a compromise?"

Depends on how much $$$$ you have.

whats a "halfway decent" price up there - we're looking at 1900 sq ft apartment west of bway between 215 and 218th streets (surrounded by parks and baker's field on the N, S and W). I've seen everything from 200K to over $1M... everything looks like a "decent price" when comparing it to where we are now. I guess we need to factor in all of the extra $$ we will spend on ordering groceries and grabbing taxis back up north into our offer....

GG, I am surprised to hear about all of the street noise, we have this place pictured as more residential than the rest of the city. Also, when you say no good grocery are there okay grocery stores nearby, and have you seen any changes/ additions to stores and amenities over the last few years? With 3 kids, we have no plans to buy all of our groceries downtown and schlep them - it will be up there or online (or delivery from somewhere south?)

You need to look at comparable sales in your building, focusing on your line, then type. Make adjustments for condition,light, view etc. Then take a peek at similar nearby comps. That is the beginning of understanding value. In these nabes I would also be interested in the number of actual sales taking place, say quarterly.

Where can I find that info? Most units in the building haven't been up for sale in nearly 8 years and were purchased for less than $200K, now two are on the market for over 700K... not a whole lot of similar properties to compare to right now, which is making it tricky.

We went up there and were mostly pleasantly surprised - very green, beautiful neighborhood, lots of families, tons of kids, nice diverse mix of people, new Associated nearby(!), pretty parks, lower costs, decent public transportation.

Still nervous about being so far from the more convenient areas of Manhattan (kids' classes and current schools, work) but still closer than the burbs, I guess. Also, bummed that PeaPod and seamlessweb don't deliver to 10034! And, no nearby drugstores that we saw... anyone know of any?

We are leaning toward heading up there - with a largish family, the space will probably pay off in the long run.

Mrs1007, I'm glad you're leaning towards living up in Inwood. It IS nice ... but again, block by block it's hit and miss with the street noise.

Also, be aware that during the warmer months -- for MONTHS at a time -- the A on the weekends terminates at 168th Street for "track maintenance", and you'll be forced to take a shuttle bus for the rest of your journey. PAIN. IN. THE. ASS. I'm sure it's a little detail none of the brokers is bothering to share with you.

Thanks to the economic depression and reversal in the real estate market, as someone wisely pointed out in another thread, if a given neighborhood hasn't gentrified by now -- with prices dropping all over the city now -- don't expect it to happen anytime soon. And by anytime soon, I'm talking 10 or 15 years. That's a long time to wait for a D'Agostino's or Duane Reade to finally open up within walking distance of your home.

Take the location for what it is TODAY: great space in charming old buildings at a great price -- but FAR away from everything else in Manhattan -- with very few amenities. For the foreseeable future.

Good luck!

isn't really a factor in New York. Try Fresh Direct. I think they do deliver to Inwood and I think you will be pleasantly surprised by what they offer.

NYCMAtt, you're amusing in your negativity but I admire your relentless spirit. You seem so confident is making assertions that are just completely wrong. Why don't we meet for coffee around 157th St? I can show you all the new changes. Also you can observe all the "gentrification" in action. I assume your definition of gentrification is white or Asians moving in? The recession has actually seemed to accelerate this type of gentrification because many people simply cannot afford downtown; whether renting or owning. And, again, you're eliminating the fact that Columbia, as we type, is transforming the entire uptown landscape. I don't know where you 10-15 year time-frame comes from. I suppose out of your ass like most of your statements, but again, good work on acting as though you're an expert in urban patterns of habitation and neighborhood specific revitalization.

Are you eventually going to tell us why you hate uptown so much? I'm morbidly intrigued.

mrs1007, sorry to be slow in checking back here.

Price is a subjective thing. I'm a single-income buyer, sounds like you're a 2-income household, that makes a big difference.

I can't tell you what is the right price for you. I tend to agree with NYC Matt that we're not going to see another big upward swing in real estate values in the city for awhile, so you've got to buy into a place that you like the way it is.

My neighbors and I make fun all the Inwood groceries. Neighbors won't set foot in Fine Fare, but I buy cat litter and paper towels there. C-Town is okay for a few edible items, but not the produce or the meats.

Associated I don't know. You should go in the store and see if they carry the stuff you usually buy.

Very often, I come up out of the subway up here with a Whole Food bag, and every other person getting off at the stop with me also is carrying a Whole Foods bag. This tells me that many of my neighbors are like me -- they don't want the crappy food that gets peddled up here.

There is a drugstore, I think it's a RiteAid, on Broadway near the PJ Wine store, which is actually a great wine store.

We do have a really good farmer's market on Saturday, and this makes up a bit for the lousy groceries. If the food shopping is going to be a big issue, you should really go inside the stores and check them out yourself, don't just assume they'll be okay. Fresh Direct does deliver up here.

Also, I don't know how much money you have in your budget for cab rides, but from the upper west side to Inwood costs about 25 bucks. I occasionally do it if it's late, but it's serious money to take cabs up here. It's 40 bucks from downtown and 50 bucks from Brooklyn Heights.

If you're starting out in Inwood and want to take a car service downtown, you can call one of the local car service companies and negotiate a price with them -- it's a little cheaper than a yellow cab. But if you're downtown and you want to get a car home, you can call the car service but it will take them a good long while to get to you -- 40 minutes usually. It's because they want to get a fare downtown first, so they can pick you up on the way back.

eliz181144, Matt does not "hate uptown so much" - he LIVES uptown. He hates all parts of uptown OTHER than where he lives.

I might point out that Peopod, Delivery.com, seamless, freshdirect etc all deliver to Morningside, Central, and East Harlem (below 125th). And that those areas have been and are gentrifying at an even greater pace than where Matt lives. But according to Matt, its still New Jack City 60 blocks south of him (and amazingly, he says it takes LONGER to get to work mid- or downtown 60 blocks south of him!)

That last point is to illustrate why he cannot be reasoned with. When I used to live btw 120th and 125th, Matt would argue for 20 posts that he could get anywhere faster than me - even though I took the express from 125th or 116th, depending, and he took it from 168th.

Really, he would argue this until blue in the face.

The Associated was near 215th on Broadway and was just like the one by us but more trendy - prices and produce looked good though! Glad to hear there is a drugstore up there, even if it's a bit of a hike.

I am pretty bummed about cabs being so scarce and $$$, but each area is going to have its drawbacks - we were looking at East Harlem for a while and even though there is decent shopping, the 2nd Ave subway coming and taxis around the area was a little too gritty for us. i love the green space in Inwood and saw the farmer's market saturday. The park was also really busy with baseball games and families on the playground, which was a big positive for us.

Does anyone know if the Target in the Bronx is close by - on the 1 maybe?

"Very often, I come up out of the subway up here with a Whole Food bag, and every other person getting off at the stop with me also is carrying a Whole Foods bag. This tells me that many of my neighbors are like me -- they don't want the crappy food that gets peddled up here."

Ditto.

We have a Gristede's on 170th and Broadway that is borderline CRIMINAL in its pricing. Whole Foods is actually a significant savings ... but only if you're willing to schlep your groceries on the A train. I suppose Gristede's figures much of its clientele -- which pays with food stamps -- are not in a position to be choosy about their grocery stores ... or that they don't ever leave the neighborhood.

"Why don't we meet for coffee around 157th St? I can show you all the new changes. Also you can observe all the "gentrification" in action."

Eliz, I may just take you up on your offer.

Maybe Whole Foods or Trader Joe's can be persuaded to open a store up there.

They would make an absolute fortune if they did. I would love to seem them put that miserable Gristede's out of business altogether.

NYC Matt, that's fine, and would be fun. I am pregnant so has to be tea for me but the offer stands.

jason - you'll have to keep up the good fight in February once the baby arrives. I'll be on here much less.

Mrs1007, I think the Target is on the 1 line, you are correct. Maybe around 232nd St. It's technically Riverdale, not Inwood.

Inwood is good for families and there are many families in my building. One couple with 2 teenage boys has been in the building for 20 years. Nice folks.

Completely agree that Whole foods should open an Inwood store, they would do bang-up business.

There is a good vet on Broadway (Inwood Veterinary Clinic) and good pet food store on 207th, off Broadway (Furry Fiends). A yoga place that everybody likes is Bread and Yoga, also at B'way and 207th.

Thanks for the tip on Associated. I don't usually go up to 215th, it's a little far for me, but I will try to check it out. Also near there is a great cafe, Indian Road Cafe, which faces the park.

Do you have a car? Parking is tight, especially when Columbia has a football game, which is once a week all through the fall. I finally got rid of my car and signed up for Zipcar, and have been much happier ever since.

we don't have a car (nor do I want one) and are also happy with zipcar, but the place we are looking at comes with a parking space - maybe we should rent it out!

The Target is walking distance from the Park Terrace section of Inwood (which I think is the area that you are looking at)- it is just across the bridge in Marble Hill. I pick up most of my "pantry" items such as paper products, cat food, cereal etc and I do not have a car. Fresh Direct and the farmers market supply the fresh foods, meats and cheeses.

great to hear! we are starting to feel cautiously optimistic about reaching a deal on the property and are feeling pretty good about the move, too!

Mrs., what finally happened? As a HH owner, I am curious. And we can walk to Target even from where we are.