selling a coop and buying another coop

in todays market, it will be almost impossible to have a contingency in a contract, especially when dealing with coops. the only way it would be more acceptable is if you found something in your current building and you would be underpricing your current apartment.

plschwartz, you wrote "It would make sense to find a place get a loan against the 2B". Do you mean that there is no mortgage on your current 2 Bed and that you would get one to be able to renovate and/or purchase the 1 Bed? Not following you. Do you not have the funds to renovate the 2 Bed without taking out a loan against the apartment?

Typically, you could do one of two things:

1) Renovate your 2 Bed and sell it. Then, find and go into contract on the 1 Bed. No overlap, very clean.

2) Renovate your 2 Bed, put in on the market and simultaneously look for the 1 Bed. If you find something that you like and the seller is agreeable to it, you could make the purchase of the 1 Bed contingent on the sale of your 2 Bed. That way the co-op board only gets the application package after your 2 Bed closes, and you have the funds to close on the 1 Bed. It may be a challenge finding a seller that's willing to wait for you to close on your 2 Bed, but you never know.

These are just generic options since it's not clear from your original post what your needs are. Some more information specific to your situation would be helpful.

ab_11218 said: "in todays market, it will be almost impossible to have a contingency in a contract..."

Although what ab_11218 may be correct, my impression has been a bit different. I am in a similar situation right now, and this is one of the first things I ask the sellers/selling agents--and they have all said "Yes" to entertaining contingency offers. Some have noted that there would be a "right to void" clause in there for the seller's protection, in case if: (1) my current apt doesn't sell/close within X number of days; or (2) seller receives more than X number of non-contingency offers meanwhile--or something like that.

So, plschwartz, you should definitely ask when you look at units to purchase.

3) Find a modest rental for 1 year inbetween selling your 2 bedroom and buying your 1 bedroom.
A) A year sound like a long time but in dealing with dual coop transactions, it's not, especially if your going to renovate.

Sell 2bd ASAP-

rent--

wait for prices to come down-- 1 or 2 years.

buy a one Bed--

Resist the urge for speed. Instead emphasize sanity and invite it into your life. Unless your apartment is an utter disaster, just touch it up: paint, scrub it, maybe new faces on kitchen cabinets, massively declutter everything by removing photos, personal items, unnecessary funiture, etc. Then sell it. If the place is such a wreck that you fell you must more fully renovate it to even generate interest, then consider pricing it lower. I say this because the aggravation of renovating a place you are moving out of is really significant. You have to move out, pay rent during the reno of the place you own, and then when it is finished you have to refurnish/stage the renovated place (one tries to avoid listing a unit devoid of furniture--people react very negatively often).

So, if you can do the touch up, and sell after pricing it reasonably, then RENT. It gives you breathing room. A year lease will fly by. Look for an apartment to buy during this time, and if you can find one quickly, great. By the time you close and renovate the place you buy, your one year lease on the rental will be up. If you insist on buying a place that needs no renovation, you again make everything more difficult--you have to like the renovation someone else did, there will be a ton of great units you fail to consider simply because they need a little work.

That's my recommendation. Life is complicated enough. With RE, I keep it as simple as possible. Too many moving pieces at once leads to aggravation.

> rent--
> wait for prices to come down-- 1 or 2 years.
> buy

I can see why someone would suggest that we wait a year or two, and I am sure such advice is well-intentioned. But we must all remember that nothing is for sure in real estate. OP needs to consider his/her own needs and priorities.

I followed such advice and sat through 2009 and 2010. Who would have imagined that the prices would go up significantly and I'd miss out on the units/buldings I really liked... They are now priced above my initial "comfort zone"...going through a price increase of 20%-40%. That is the reason why I must now sell my current residence before I can buy.

For instance, I really wanted an upper-floor F-line at the Jade in 2009 when it could have been had for under $1M with fabulous concessions, but I didn't buy--because everyone told me that the prices were coming down further by at least 20%. They went "at least 20%" alright, but to the other direction! The last F-line apt on the market was priced at $1.4M this summer (lower floor than the one I looked at), with another unit on a floor further below that, CLOSING at $1.19M in 5/2011.

As for renting while looking to buy...I have way too much stuff to be okay with the prospect of renting for a year or two--and I'd rather overpay by $50k or even $100k than have to move twice...

ClintonBuyer

please give examples. I find that hard to believe.

especially in Clinton

If you have the financial ability to do so, don't try to market time your life. Life is shorter than one thinks. If the time is now to get this all done, just do it. The goal is not to die with as much money as possible. The goal should be to live well and wisely. Had I listened to all the noise, I'd still be renting after selling in late 2007. Instead, I have now lived in the fully renovating terrific coop, that is perfect for my husband and I for years to come, for 2.5 years and have moved on to other endeavors beyond NYC RE. Had we been renting, and waiting, and looking, and monitoring interest rates, etc, the NYC RE thing would have become a regular pre-occupation, and THAT is something I can live without. Buying fit into our longterm financial goals, our current budget, and we had a long time horizon. It was the right decision.

Here, we aren't dealing with a kid out of college buying his first studio. The OPs are an established couple on the cusp of retirement. Waiting a year here, two years there, is not something people of a certain age really want to do a lot of. What is the point of waiting years to buy? To pocket a bit more money? What if they don't need that "extra money" to live comfortably? What if they have sufficient savings without saving whatever a year or two of waiting would produce? Why wait? Once again, it is ridiculous to live as if the goal is to die with the most money possible.

Grow up.

How about living with some money?

Not everyone is in a position like yours.

CC, why so snarky? Without knowing the couple's situation, others are offering advice that isn't all that balanced. The answer to the OP is not an unequivocal "rent." It isn't one size fits all. There are circumstances under which waiting might not have any meaningful benefits and some of those circumstances merit outlining. So I did. You think doing that is immature and shows I need to grow up? Re-read what I wrote. I said if the money really does matter, that is one thing. But if it isn't really crucial to extract every dollar possible from these transactions, then taking a step back and considering how to proceed is reasonable. For some people having another $100,000 in the bank at age of retirement means everything. For others it won't make an enormous difference one way or the other. Why assume it is the former without knowing?

I agree with my kylewest ; I was fortunate enough to keep my one bedroom while I gutted and renovated my classic 6 in a rising price environment. Made great money on both. However, in this market I would sell the 2 br ASAP. I would also rent and pick up the 1 br After the Touch up, sale and closing was completed. Stage the 2 br. Good luck. I am still renting. The timing is not here yet.

KW, I would guess money is an issue here. Squeezing into a 1BR isn't exactly everybody's dream.

The OP is looking to renovate and sell for $1.5M, transact, and buy for $800K. I'm guessing a $250-300K renovation. Another $100-150K to carry two places & transact, $300K of cash comes out. I think $100K one way or another matters here.

Brooks 2 said: "please give examples. I find that hard to believe"

Brooks 2, do you want the unit numbers? I thought mentioning the F-lines at the Jade would be sufficiently specific...but you still seem "lost." By the way, Brooks2, the Jade isn't in Clinton. The units in question are 9F (on the market shortly for $1.39M but has since been pulled) and 7F (closed for $1.19M this earlier this summer), and the units I looked at in 2009 were 8F and 10F--both of which, according to the sales woman then, would have been released at the price point under the "mansion tax line." And I do believe they closed in the $990s.

If you'd like me to do the math for you, 1.19M (the actual price at closing for 7F) is roughly 20% more than the "mansion tax line" for 10F, with the exact same layout 3 floors above 7F, and $1.39 (didn't result in sale as of yet) would have been approximately 40% more--one floor below 10F. All these increases transpired in the last 18 months when EVERYONE was telling me that the prices were coming down across the board.

Incidentally, this has been the case at other new conztructions I have looked at as well. Since Brooks2 appears to be closely and intensely monitoring the "price cuts" in other threads, I'd assume s/he might not be familiar with the increases as much...

Also, why does it seem as though Brooks2 and columbiacountry appear frequently well coordinate in their doupble-spaced-short-sentence replies suggesting renters are unequivocally wise and buyers are decidedly dumb? Are they the same person, or maybe dogmatic people who react without actually reading others' entries tend to write in a similar manner?

give me an address and closings-- those will be the facts! post some inceases!!!

I posted this one last night. and you said the broker did a good job! . If she did a good job, she would have sold in 20-30% higher according to you. So if you sell asap, rent and wait a year or two you will be able to see that these brokers are full of it.

YOu seem to think I am someones else. that is fine everyone on this site thinks i am someone different.
The fact is I a not. I highly doudt you are a "clinton buyer". I am sure you are just another useless broker!!

34% chopper.. Does a good salesperson waste this much of a clients time thats over a year on the market!

06/08/2010
Listed by Corcoran at $3,750,000.
09/15/2010
Price decreased by 7% to $3,500,000.
10/27/2010
Price decreased by 6% to $3,275,000.
02/08/2011
Price decreased by 12% to $2,895,000.
05/06/2011
Price decreased by 15% to $2,450,000.
07/07/2011
Listing entered contract.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/531145-coop-785-fifth-avenue-lenox-

inonade: I see your point, but I think your numbers are kinda exaggerated. If you are selling, you don't do a $300K reno on a $1.5MM apartment. That is a reno you do if you intend to live there. You will never make back that kind of money.

KW:

"We are retired and are downsizing to get get cash out." does not translate into trying to die with as much money possible. That is your mantra. It means what it says; money matters.

Grow up refers to the clear fact that you are not yet at a time of life where retirement planning is real; these people have clearly stated they are.

CC, so by "grow up" you mean "get old?"

now, who's being snarky?

no, i mean be aware of the fact that its all too easy to assume that everyone is as lucky and fortunate as many here. and, in the current and foreseeable financial climate, every paltry 100K is going to matter unless you are seriously wealthy.

"inonade: I see your point, but I think your numbers are kinda exaggerated. If you are selling, you don't do a $300K reno on a $1.5MM apartment. That is a reno you do if you intend to live there. You will never make back that kind of money."

My guess is that this is a 1250 sq ft place worth $1.1M. They are thinking to do a $150K renovation and end up with a $1.5M place because that's what a neighbor sold for. Except the neighbor did a full-up job. It'd take a $300K renoation to really get there. The problem with a half-ass renovation is that it takes the apt to no-man's-land that'll sell for $1.3M with lots of effort rather than $1.5M with ease. Lots of people look at half-ass renovations and say "I wish they had just done nothing".

While $100K may be a lot to the OP, it likely isn't to a buyer when comparing a so-so renovated space to a high-end one. IMO.

inonada: because of this no-man's-land dilemma, I think the best way to go is usually just a spruce up. Paint, do the floors (people LOVE shiny floors), reface cabinets maybe, replace windows with broken fogged up seals, reglaze a tub & put in a new vanity. Make the place look livable. That's all. IMO you never recover 100% of a reno cost; all you do is generally make the place sell faster regardless of the reno.

CC: I never said the OP didn't need the extra $100,000. What I said was IF it wasn't going to make a substantive difference upon soberly and realistically assessing one's finances, then it might make sense to take a step back and ask whether waiting years to buy in an attempt to time the market really makes sense. I have said clearly that for some the money will matter a great deal, but that doesn't mean such is the case for everyone and a reflexive assumption that it matters to everyone isn't prudent. As an aside, there is an edge to the way you word your responses that seems unnecessarily confrontational. Instead of discussing substance you mix in personal distractions that get threads off topic. Here, if you disagreed with my view, all you had to do was express why. No need to begin a post with an insulting sounding "Grow up" etc. Then in your next post you again make it personal referring to assumptions about my own retirement planning. It's kind of abrasive. Compare this to the exchanges between inonada and myself on here. We have disagreed on somethings, and agreed on others, but we focus on the ideas, and not each other.

I think kylewest and ionada are both making valid points here. Although a $300K renovation could get them a higher sales price with less effort I think people who are just looking to get out rarely go to that length. I think that's the case here, especially given that the OPs are retirees. As a buyer, I also strongly agree that "The problem with a half-ass renovation is that it takes the apt to no-man's-land that'll sell for $1.3M with lots of effort rather than $1.5M with ease. Lots of people look at half-ass renovations and say "I wish they had just done nothing"". It's a shame to see how some sellers waste their money on partial renovations that have very little impact. It just ends up turning me off to the apartment because they end up doing a few things, often at medium quality, and want more for it. I would much rather buy an apartment for less and do the renovation myself.

So sellers rarely spend the $300K, but can't bring themselves to sell the apartment as-is, because they want to get a higher price. So they end up compromising and spending somewhere in the middle, which gets them very little return.

We still haven't heard back from the OP with some more information that would help clarify things, so all we're doing now is guessing. We could be way off on our assumptions. We've also gotten away from the intent of their post, I think. OP, are you out there?

plschwartz - This is certainly something we would take a look at. Would need more details though. Would probably set up a HELOC/Bridge Loan on existing. If you would like to discuss please let me know.

mcohen@firstrepublic.com

Agree with KW & Inonada about not doing a half-assed renovation. I appreciate that you want to extract every dollar possible but the issue with doing a reno is that you may very end up selling at 1.1m (assume that's the unreno-ed price) anyway.

Get a professional stager to come in and give you an evaluation of what cosmetic changes can be done. At the minimum, do a deep clean and declutter and paint. Remove half your furniture, that kind of thing.

An important piece of advice you need to consider is doing a flat fee RLS listing to save potentially on all 6% of the standard broker fee. Along with transfer taxes and a common 2% flip tax you're looking at 10% in closing costs before anything else (http://www.hauseit.com/closing-costs-nyc/).

I would highly recommend you consider that. Flipping sounds so fun and easy, and brokers love to encourage it. But the friction of transaction costs in real estate are extremely high!!

Oh, and before we make it sound too easy, read this (http://www.hauseit.com/selling-a-coop-without-a-broker-in-nyc/). It's not so simple as just listing your home and then selling it.

The sale process for a co-op is much more involved. You'll really have to spend some time doing this.

Do you think five years is enough time, RiddhiBman?

What if the original poster needs another five years? Do you still get paid for drumming up hauseit business then?

Riddhi, At least change your handle to a more anonymous one rather than shortened last name.