Tenants from Hell

> But I've heard horror stories of people moving in and using the system to their advantage.

one big landlord in nyc once said that with the rules that the city imposes, paying rent is optional. :-)

as a landlord you are at a disadvantage in the courts. put in a family with kids and your disadvantage gets even worse.

my wonderful landlord did the credit checks, etc on the tenants that live upstairs from me. they, almost certainly, used someone else's name as their legal status in US is questionable. they always pay ontime, good for my landlord. they flooded me 7 times over the course of less then 2 years. the landlord had to do the repairs. they came home at 11 pm and blasted music until 1 am daily. i threatened to call the cops and they stopped. they had the other laborers who work with them stay with them. they refused to assist during snow removal when it is part of the lease agreement. they dump garbage in front of the house that they can't get rid of at the store they work in. they find the ability to "park" their van in front of the house and block a few driveways while leaving the van 2+ feet away from the curb on a somewhat narrow street. there have been infestations because they are so "clean".

the reports don't say anything about the person and if it's actually the person who will be living there. in my case, if the landlord wasn't such a cheapskate, he would throw them out and find someone better. i'm guessing that they are paying a few $ more then others and he's willing to see his property get damaged.

Where possible, I would insist on contact info from former landlords of the prospective tenants and actually call that reference to discuss. I would also ask about any history of being party to an order of protection, running the prospective tenant's name through legal databases in attempt to find prior litigation (civil or criminal) involving the person. I would ask for a voided check from an active bank account to see what number in the series was on the check--if it is check #101 (the first check ever written on the account) I would reject the person. You are seeking stability, reliability, middle-of-the-road people who come without yellow flags from the get-go. Even with all of this, there are no guarantees, but at least you are better off doing these things than not doing them.

> they came home at 11 pm and blasted music until 1 am daily.

call the police already!

I've heard more crazy stories about landlords than tenants, even though there are so many more tenants. I wouldn't trust a former landlord (they could just want to get rid of a bum) or past litigation. The best way to weed out potential bad tenants is to ask for references: one from their current boss and one from a close friend. ou can tell a lot about someone from their chosen associates.

ab_11218 - I feel your pain... Back in the 1990's we had neighbors from hell - one night they actually started vacuuming at 1:30 am! My husband went into the cellar, found the master switch to their apartment and shut them down. We ALWAYS live on the top floor now. I carried my fat prego belly and two kids up the 4 flights (plus stoop!). So now 10 years later I remain in great shape and most important we live in peace :) I have watched my landlord deal with many tenants over these last 10 years and have to say that only one was a real 'dink' and they were lucky to have them leave after 1 year.

ab..11218:

1. a landlord cant terminate a lease or evict without a reason
2. the ocnduct you describe constitutes a "muisance"
3. but most lease breaches can be "cured" without penalty
4. and many courts wont evict unless a nuisance is terribly harmful to others

For some of us who pay everything electronically and don't write checks (I once went three years without doing so), the no check #101 rule could hurt.

The other point I would add is to make your building appealing to the type of tenants you want. E.g., if it's an unrenovated, mouse-infested building with rattling windows and no insulation, your odds of getting desirable tenants are a lot lower.

I've seen landlords really cheap out on certain items - like insulation between the floors of a building - and come to pay for it later on, when otherwise reasonable tenants turn unreasonable because they're hearing their neighbors 24/7.

"For some of us who pay everything electronically and don't write checks (I once went three years without doing so), the no check #101 rule could hurt."

So start writing checks.

Problem solved.

No need. i change banks every other year or so, to follow interest-checking and no fee deals. You can ask for your free checkbooks to start at 11396, if you feel so inclined (I pretty much never write checks either.)

rb,

1 - your
2 - numbering
3 - has gotten
4 - so annoying
5 - that a
6 - response
7 - is not worth it ;)

There are big differences between the counties. New York County (Manhattan) for example, is extremely tenant-friendly.

But even doing an eviction in a landlord-friendly county will cost you thousands, and if you are a landlord long enough, at some point it will happen. You just build it into your business model.

ali r.

My former neighbor was
Chain smoking in a furnished apartment
Doing coke
Flushing clothes down the toilet and then calling super to fix clogs
Loud past 3am
Generally insane
Multiple large dogs who weren't getting walked frequently enough...

Some of these incurred fines (to the owner), some of these caused damage to the apartment (plumbing, flooring, fumigating, and i would imagine destroyed some furnishings)

All this in a $1MM apartment in doorman condo in uws...

Check number means nothing. You can order checks starting with whatever number you want from any online or mail order check printer. Maybe checking the check number worked 25 years ago but not anymore.

Well I have an old couple below who are completely crazy. They moved about a 18 months ago and immediately complained of a motor noise and vibrations on their walls. The super checked all the apartments around them, three times. Also changed their windows, installed new air and heating units for them, changed something in he plumbing - all to no avail. The crazy couple banged on my door at all hours to complain about the noise, left notes under my door, got the management to check my apartment and were convinced that I was making all this noise (while i was not even here). The final straw is that they called the police on me at 11:30 at night, who banged on my door while I was asleep. The next day i called the police and threatened harassment, which seem to have ended the affair. This is a luxury building and i am sure these people had great credit. I can only imagine being a landlord with all these nuts around (i just have to live with them).

I have a question: is there any correlation between how hands-on the doormen and staff are and whether tenants/owners tend to be crazy?

I think I'm on my 5th NY doorman building now (3 rentals, 2 condos), and in my last two buildings, the doormen were very friendly, and v-e-r-y involved (maybe too involved) in what was going on in the building, who was going in and out, and what they were doing. On my other buildings, the doormen were much more discreet, quiet, less outgoing, and focused more on process (security, keeping track of packages and mail, etc.) than on friendliness.

I've gotten used to the more in-your-face doormen, but I wonder if people who are crazy, and know deep down that they'll probably be causing trouble, are going to self-select into the more anonymous buildings. In other words, people who really don't like scrutiny.

In contrast, if you've got Mr. Chatty/Friendly as your doorman, and you're a jerk or a deadbeat or shall we say super-quirky, word is definitely going to get around. And in addition, the landlord/management co is going to have an information source that can help clear up who's telling the truth in he said/she said situations.

Anyway, I tend to like my privacy but have nothing to hide, so I think I'll put up with more intrusive doormen in return for the benefit of scaring away people who r-e-a-l-l-y don't want any witnesses to what they're up to.

Am I onto something, or is where crazy people end up just random?

I'd say that crazy is random. the crazies are just as likely to prefer Mr. Chatty b/c that's someone else they can air their list of grievances to.

If you have a well run Coop then the Coop should be the way to keep the wrong type of visitors out so you don't need to give the doormen the power trip. It is up to you and the owners not the doormen being nosey.