Future Outlook for larger apartments

what is your criteria for "larger" apts? 4+ bedrooms and over 2000 sqft?

3 bedrooms, 1600+ square feet

As a potential buyer, I have not seen any softness in this segment of the market.

In late Feb/early March, we made offers on two 3-bedroom units, both over 2500sf. The seller in Noho accepted our offer at 5% below ask just after making a 5% price reduction. The seller in Tribeca accepted our offer at 10% below ask. We pulled out of both deals for various reasons, and the Tribeca listing has since been reduced 7% and the Noho listing another 5%. Both apartments are still on the market. In addition to these two listings, I am tracking several other properties and my general sense is that sellers are not getting their asking prices and inventory is not moving. I'm sitting on the sidelines for a few months waiting for more inventory and hopefully along with that, more negotiability.

homeseeker, I think it really depends where in the city you are. Downtown there is a real standoff between sellers who think the apartment that you describe is worth $4 million and buyers who want to bid $3 -$3.5 million. Uptown there is not as much of a discrepancy between the sides and that kind of inventory moves much more quickly.

ali r.
[downtown broker}

I've been watching a couple three bedroom properties in the 1600 sqft category and they have lingered on the market for a while. That said, the ask prices are 30-40% higher than 2007 levels, so even with major reductions, comps will still be significantly higher than 2007.

Believe it or not, we have made offers now on 3 different properties and have been outbid by other buyers. We are currently waiting to hear on a fourth which also has other bidders. Given that there is less inventory at the larger end, I was wondering if it would be as sensitive as the rest of the market.

I'd like to get people's thoughts on this apartment:
http://www.metropolitanequities.com/sales_results.php?id=123702

Floorplan doesn't come up, but I found this one from a rental in the same line:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/attachment/show/8942

It's tiny for a 3 bdrm but once you decipher the floorplan it looks like a pretty good layout (bedrooms separate from common areas), fairly large living room, floor to ceiling windows.

I really like this building, but I'm wondering if this place should get a premium on ppsf against comps because it is a true 3 bdrm, or not since it's so small? Oh and then there are the additional fees because it's a sponsor unit. At this price I've only seen 2 bdrms with converted dining alcoves. Thoughts?

Although it is a 3 bedroom, it is actually the same size as a small 2 bedroom and is priced at the same price as a 2 bedroom. I like the floor to ceiling windows, my only concern is being so close to Bellvue. I used to live near Bellvue when I first moved to the city and there was a lot of noise due to the sirens.

I have no idea what the comparables are. My impressions of the apartment are that the common living space is tiny and unworkable for family--where exactly is a real dining table going to go? If the bedroom next to the living room was combined with the living room, a more generous, decent sized common space would be created. At 1100 sq/ft, this is really a two-bedroom anyway. The second bedroom could be reconfigured slightly to make it a bit larger. The location is far from any subway and kind of in a no-man's land neighborhood-wise. But the price is indeed low if you need a 3-bed apt--even a small one--and this is the budget, then options are limited and maybe this works. I don't think the location/size is going to have broad appeal, though.

Got an email today from a broker whose OH I attended in Gold Coast area of GV -- 3BR, 3000 sq ft, great condition. The price had been reduced for the OH, and was just reduced again to $3.7mm. I think it's still too high. We shall see.

KISS: comparables are not readily ascertainable for the property you mention since it is part of a two-unit townhouse and extends into an adjoining building--that's a pretty odd situation. Clearly the broker and/or seller has no idea what the place is worth since its banged around the market for almost a year and has already had 3 price adjustments slicing about 1/2 million off the initial asking price. Is the most recent shaving of $55,000 off the price going to make a difference and get the place sold? Who knows. I bet the seller would be open to a bid now they never would have considered last summer.

kylewest,

Actually the "building" is a row of 3 adjacent townhouses that were subsequently joined, so I don't really think it's as odd a situation as you might initially think. At least I didn't think it was so odd since the layout and flow worked pretty well. However, the maint was high and the apt was a third fl walkup. I suspect the price will come down since the seller can't do anything about those two issues.

EAO - what neighborhoods are you looking in?

Ali - Are you saying that, in general, downtown sellers tend to have more inflated asking prices than midtown & uptown? Any particular reasons why that would be the case?

I am looking on the Upper West and Upper East

KISS: I walked by the buildings on the way home and looked at the floorplan again. It is, IMO, one of the prettiest blocks in the city and the buildings are outstanding looking. The layout is very nice, too. Not awkward looking, nice flow. But, as you say, who is going to pay nearly $4MM for a walk up? Who knows. There isn't much like this on the market. But even so, it sure isn't exactly flying off the shelf. And that awning in the photos... that goes to a defunct restaurant. If that space gets rented to another restaurant, I would be very unhappy to have it operating in my little building. Vermin, traffic, odors, noise--it would lower the mainenance perhaps, but then again, at over $3MM, I don't think an owner is worrying too much about a few hundred in maintenance.

EAO, your situation sounds familiar. My sense is that 3BRs below 90th on the UWS for $2.25M or less are still seeing bidding wars and going for ask or more.

Exactly. Was hoping that we would see some softness here.

Me too. But families with two kids that want to avoid a long commute by staying in Manhattan have only a relatively few places to choose from, and are apparently established enough to afford these prices. Not sure when, or if, prices for these apartments will go down. I've been waiting on the sidelines for three years and I'm not convinced that now isn't as good a time as any to get into an apartment where we'd live for the next 5 years or so.

Assuming your children can find appropriate school spots. They're going to be at a premium (and I'm not just talking about the $33K or so per yer per child for tuition). Also, there's been a HUGE increase in the family-sized condo apartments. It has to do with economy of scale. Per sf, the larger the apartment, number of bedrooms, the higher per sf asking prices. Extrapolate, people. Overproduction.

aboutready, are you saying you think the market will go down with so many new condos coming on the market or that it will continue to increase with high demand?