Lost in NYC Coop world

He have just done the first step, exposing your unjust ordeal to the world. This may eventually be your bargaining chip to get your problems resolved.

I meant "you", not "He"

you're in a small coop and unfortunately, this is the way of life.

if i would be in your position, i would have a contractor come in and tar the part of the roof from the bottom, ie remove your ceiling. or take a tarp/heavy plastic 6 mil or so and attach it to the dry area and redirect the water from the roof to go towards the wall between the studs. you will resolve your issue and may cause issues for other tenants below you. they can then scream just like you have for 4 yrs.

my friend had a similar situation with the roof. her husband came on the board and started fighting to get the work done. no one wanted to "waste" money on fixing a problem of one shareholder. he ended up removing some sheetrock by the window, where the leak was, and putting plastic tarp over the roof and the wall that was closest. the person below him started screaming.... the roof was fixed. even if it leaks again on that seam, he will not have the issue as the water will be pushed down to the tenants below.

Thanks, vic64, I hope you're right.
(or else the people running my building will identify my via my comment, and I'll accidentally fall off the roof :)
I have been warned by a board member before, not to "complain" about people I "depend on".

ab_11218, I wish it was obvious where the water is coming from. I have three areas total that are affected, on opposite sides of the apartment. I have inspected the roof myself, hoping to find something apparent I could maybe temporarily fix with some caulking, but I can't identify the problem area.

Once a board member had a leak on his bathroom ceiling, and he got repairs (all new tiling etc.) immediately. Unfortunately no board member lives below me.

But it is very interesting to read about your friend's situation - that the board in her building didn't want to "waste money on fixing the problem of one shareholder"...It would have never occurred to me that a leaking roof could be viewed as a problem of just one shareholder..!? It could definitely explain why nothing happened so far in my case.

Now you know why people hold on to their RS pads

MIBNYC, see, that's how difficult it gets for a foreigner, even had to look up "RS pads" :)

There are two sides to every story.

I'd like to hear from someone on the board.

Not to attack you, 153, but I've had to deal with my share of nightmare shareholders who did quite a convincing job twisting the story to look THEM look like the victim.

Go to court
Sue the board
Sue the management company

Call the NY Post and have them exposed

NYCMatt - wow.
I wish I had it in me to be a nightmare shareholder. I'm pretty sure I would not have three moist, crumbling walls anymore.

I suspect that in fact the reason why they don't take me seriously is the fact that I've always asked politely for their help.
The worst I ever did was mentioning that I have reported the leak years ago already and that I've been patiently waiting to hear the building's plans regarding this issue.

And btw, I'd also like to hear from someone on the board for once. would be much appreciated.

Don't mind Matt, he doesn't even tip for Christmas.

153, don't hold your breath.

I can't speak for your board, but generally speaking, board members do not speak directly to shareholders -- officially -- about issues like this. This is why there is a hierarchy: shareholders contact the management company, the management company contacts the board president, etc. This is why the building pays for a management company.

NYCMatt, I know.
That's why I always tried to get in touch with the management first. Only because I can't get the management to respond did I ever send an e-mail to a board member (three times in three years)
I usually ask the manager to call me back or I send an e-mail and wait 4 weeks, then I ask again and wait another 4 weeks.
After that I think it is quite reasonable to get in touch with a board member.

153: I'll give you the practical solution. I have some experience with roofs and mystery leaks - i.e. no obvious weak spot on the roof. The board should deal with your issue, it should treat your concerns seriously but you have to act now and fast. Get flashing material (i.e. thick silver paint-like substance) from Home Depot. This should be in the order of 200-500 dollars (don't know how big your roof is). Get handyman, bribe super if possible, apply this all over your roof. Keep it quiet. See if you still have a leak.

nyc10023 --- really, and the next time his water isnt hot enough should he grab a monkey wrench and start tweaking the boiler?

153 -- just have a lawyer send a letter to the MC, copy to the board prez, that lists all the attempts you've made so far and threatens legal action if no immediate steps are taken to remedy the problem. Nothing like the threat of a little litigation to light a fire.

nyc10023: I'm not even allowed to paint the exterior of my apartment door so it matches the other doors on my floor.
The Super is supposed to do it, but doesn't do it unless the management tells him to - which they don't.
I've asked if I can hire someone to do the job, which was denied.
Now, would I go ahead and paint the entire roof, I'm sure they would expulse me from the building.

153 - I am so sorry for your ordeal. I found myself in a situation that had all the markings of corruption not that long ago, and the legal system is not well equipped to handle such situations. You are in a really difficult place, because publicly identifying the building will make it difficult to sell your unit; on the other hand, it appears your internal moral compass (different for everyone of course) makes you hesitant to push this situation off to a potential buyer of your unit anyway. I love the practical suggestions above; in addition, I'd draft a "if you read in the paper that I've fallen off the roof, please investigate these people . . ." letter to two people you trust. There are some scary players out there. :-)

West34: I was desperate enough to ask the lawyer who did the closing what I could do.
At one point he called the management and asked them successfully to respond to my e-mails. The response of course was another excuse.
He told me would I threaten legal action it would make things worse, court action would be costly and take forever, and the management as well as the board would view me as a "nightmare shareholder" and treat me accordingly. He strongly advised against it.
At the same time I had the impression that this lawyer was quite intimidated by the manager..

"At the same time I had the impression that this lawyer was quite intimidated by the manager.."

No.

He's just being realistic.

NYCNovice - thanks for your understanding. Yes, all the practical suggestions cheered me up as well:)

Go on a maintenance strike until the issue is remedied under the premise of Warranty of Habitability:
http://definitions.uslegal.com/w/warranty-of-habitability/

If it's been 3 years, I'd suggest hiring an attorney and suing the building. It may seem drastic, but living with a leak for 3 years is inexcusable. Heck, living with a leaky roof for 3 months is inexcusable. If the board is just being cheap and lazy, litigation should help kick their ass into gear. If there's a good reason for the ongoing leak, you'll get your answer and hopefully a remedy.

It's tough to imagine (at least in this story as you present it) that the board doesn't already view you as a nightmare shareholder, as well as one who can be pushed around by delaying tactics/dithering. 3 years with a leak, poor you, but srsly?

My advice: Get a new attorney who isn't intimidated by management, and have that lawyer make consistently regular communications to the managing agent, cc:ing the president of the board.{West 34 is spot on with this]. You? You don't need to speak to anyone at this point. Smile and get out of the way.

And honestly, the idea that you're going to fall off a roof would require a level of planning and forethought that IME are pretty unusual in NYC real estate world.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

You told your story now expose the address......

153 - If you want another lawyer's opinion and have not received a good recommendation from someone you know and trust, someone gave us the following name when we were looking for a tenant-side attorney: Todd Lamb at toddvlamb@gmail.com. We did not use Mr. Lamb so I cannot vouch for him (and frankly, even if I could, I am just an unverified source on the Internet without any credibility), but I am putting a name out there because when I came looking for a good tenant-side attorney on SE, nobody had any names for me at all. I have no connection or personal experience with Mr. Lamb, but my understanding is that he is a competent real estate attorney who has recently gone into solo practice. I am pretty sure you were kidding about the roof thing and understood that I was as well. Good luck with your situation.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.
uwsbeagle - so far the walls are moist and crumbling. During inspection the manager told me that I should not even consider warranty of habitability (he brought it up - at the time I didn't even know about this law), because there was no (visible) mold, so the apartment was perfectly habitable.
buster2056 - it's been a mixture of hope and an attempt to avoid even more hassle as well as the reportedly enormous cost for legal services in NYC that made me try an amicable approach so far.
which,
front-porch - leads to admitting, that by NYC standards, I am probably quite a pushover.
I imagine it would be easier if could spend more time in NYC, and would have some kind of a network of friends, family, somebody to support me here.
Of course the management as well as the board are well aware of my situation, I'm a single girl, and have been raised to avoid confrontations and always be polite, etc., so that's hard to hide.
Unfortunately this unresolved situation made me dread any visit to NYC by now, so that instead of my previous plans to be spending 6 months/year in NYC (that's why I got an apt here in the first place), I avoid going there whenever possible.
I will go there in two weeks, though, and am determined to do something about the situation.

Now I've just read about NYC Civil Court, where tenants may start a case against landlords to make repairs:
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/housing/repairstenants.shtml
Does anybody know, if a water leak (so far without mold) would suffice to claim "emergency repairs due to conditions in your home which threaten life, health or safety" ?

NYCNovice: yes, I was joking and know you were as well:)
Thanks for the attorney suggestion, I will get in touch with him once I'm there.

153 - If/when you do contact any attorney, do not divulge anything other than your own contact information and that you'd like a consultation. Before you tell the lawyer anything other than that, the lawyer will run a conflict-of-interest check. You may know that already, but I just wanted to make sure I didn't lead you into the highly unlikely/unfortunate situation where you sent a detailed description of your problem to an attorney who is already working for the other side. Astronomically unlikely, but just wanted to make sure.

NYCNovice - that's very useful information, wouldn't have considered this possibility, thanks!

153 - Really hope you can get this worked out in manner that is satisfactory for you, and if the system lets you down, I personally would just cut my losses and sell. Re passing the situation on to the next owner, anyone buying real estate in New York should be aware of risk that has materialized in your case, and to the extent an unsuspecting buyer is not, I would be stunned if there was anything in NY real estate law (though I do not profess to know) that would require you to disclose what could be your own personality conflict with board or that you feel the board is crazy or unscrupulous. Accordingly, FWIW (which I am well aware is nothing), I think you should go easy on yourself should you decide to cut your losses here and sell.

Front_Porch - Side note: My husband and I are approaching our own real-estate decision making point, and I am sending you e-mail with title: "STREETEASY - MCR/NYC Novice here." Alerting you here to look for it in the event it gets caught in spam filter.

Isn't a actress from Law and Order going thru this same ordeal at THE RIVIERA ?

MIBNYC - just looked it up, she was warned that the roof to her apartment was in danger of collapsing! compared to that my headaches seem minor.

NYCNovice - you are very nice and considerate..those are exactly the thoughts running through my brain, re selling..
I think I should disclose my experience with management and board, and pay attention not to sell to someone who, like me, believes a dream is coming true..and then wake up to reality. people are different of course, and some enjoy to fight, so someone like that would be the perfect buyer:) At least I know that I would sell an apartment with highest quality renovations, personally watched over it, no hidden flaws, to make up for the not so friendly board and management..

Re previous suggestions to have a future lawyer cc:ing the president of the board when writing to the management:
I missed the last board election 8 months ago. Some neighbor told me that there's a new board president, didn't know who.
I have asked the management for this information several times as a ceterum censeo to my leaking roof inquiries, but never got an answer.
Is this information public and can be retrieved somewhere?
Or should a lawyer cc the one board member who's e-mail address I found via her website.

If you even consider selling the place for a loss, then you should not be afraid to become the so called nightmare shareholder. You are screwed already. You deserve damage compensation. You have a strong case. I would not even threaten to sue but actually sue.

vic64 - I love the SE comments you've made where I have come across them, and you sound like a lawyer. Do you have any good recommendations for attorney for 153 or anyone else who might need a good attorney for a sub $100,000K damages suit in real estate?

vic64 - re sueing: I'm sure the management of this building is equipped to crush me to pieces with their numerous lawyers..at the same time, threatening to sue isn't worth anything without the will to go through with it..
I will talk to the lawyer NYCNovice recommended once I'm in NYC, and ask how he thinks my chances are, etc.. As a foreigner I don't really know much about U.S. jurisdiction..just european gossip like, that you can lose your last dime going to court in the U.S.:)

If you think the damage is sub $100K in repair, then how about the lost in value of the apartment caused by this? I would hire my own inspector to access the damage to your apartment, and an appraisor to access the difference in the apartment's value with and without the problem.

This is not even including damage the emotional stress that she was subject to. She was even scared of coming to NYC, where her second home was.

When she actually starts the legal procedures, not just a threat. The building may start considering to settle and resolve the issues. As long as they know that you have the determination and resource to execute, they would not be serious. Until then, they can play their same old tactic of delaying. In that case, the cost would be quite minimal.

vic64: the difference in the apartment's value - does it only count once I sell (and have to sell on a discount because of the damage), or would it count as a "virtual difference" in any case?

>This is not even including damage the emotional stress that she was subject to. She was even scared of coming to NYC, where her second home was.

That's funny.

This is kind of mind-blowing. You've had a leak in your home for 3-years with no resolution in sight. You are clearly ineffective at getting results (not necessarily your fault, just the facts), so spend a little time and speak to a qualified attorney (i.e. experienced in nyc residential real estate litigation) to determine your options and the expense. Then, hire them to act on your behalf. If you can afford a co-op as a pied-a-terre, you shouldn't be totally financially constrained...

vic64 - Sorry for confusion; not my area at all. I have no idea what 153's damages might be/are and to the extent that they exceed $100,000, then her pool of potential attorneys becomes much larger. 153's situation aside, I think there are many potential plaintiffs in the real estate world who are in tough spot of finding attorney for suits where there might disputed issues of material fact and damages are less than some threshold amount; deep-pocketed defendant can make the process of suing as painful as or more painful than the original incident. Again, I like your posts and would love to hear more. I really feel for 153 because I was living in a foreign country many years ago and faced all sorts of things that I never would have had to deal with in my own country. Mercifully, I had family friends who were well-placed nationals of the country in question, and neither my employer nor my landlord bothered me again once they made their presence known. It seems 153 is lacking such a resource here, and I would love to assist her as much as possible. Unfortunately, I have no personal experience with any attorney that might be able to assist her; were I competent in the area she needs, I would do a pro-bono consultation, but again, I am not well-versed in what she needs. If you've had personal experience with anyone you'd recommend, your recommendation would at least give 153 another attorney to interview before choosing one if she decides to pursue that route and would carry more weight than my recommendation because I neither know any attorney personally nor have I had experience with any attorney personally who could help.

153, given that there are gender issues here (I've been a single female homeowner myself, so I totally get it) you might want to consider getting a female atty. Watching a woman not get pushed around by this management might lift your spirits a little.

Note well: I'm not saying that you want to jump straight to a lawsuit, just that you might want to outsource the job of bugging management to get what you want. An atty has the advantages over you of 1) being on the ground here and 2) not having any emotional involvement (leaks in one's home are so draining!)

NYCRENov -- got your email. Hi! Wrote you back.

ali

Luckily for 153 was that the foriegn country in her case is the USA. It is not just any other third world country. That was also why it attracts so much foriegn investment interest. That was why Warren Buffet said he was willing to pay more tax to invest here. It is because we have a relatively fair judicial system. In most cases, it is not corrupted.

Don't always think of larger entities have the advantages in legal disputes. Believe in justice. The bigger your opponents are, the more likely that they are willing to settle. Their legal cost is much larger than the small guys.

For 153, she is having a very tough time selling this coop anyway. The worst has happened to her already. If she sues the building and the coop board decides to fight, most other owners including the board members will have a hard time liquidating their properties also. They are not stupid. The roof is something that needs to be done anyway. Why go thru the battle for something that you need to do anyway? In their mind now, it is that nothing to lose mentality. It has been a few years and nothing bad has happened to them. Just stay put for as long as possible, until...

I am not thinking like a lawyer because I am not a lawyer. I am thinking like a victim who can afford to hire lawyers (at least to just establish a case initially), hire an inspector and appraiser to produce some supporting documents. This cost cannot be astronomical.

This is just what I would do if I were 153. I would reserve about $50K to push forward despite some professionals may say otherwise. But that is just me. I would not let those bullies take advantage of me and get away easily.

153: sorry you are having so much trouble with this. You have some great advice from many of the posters above. I will only add a few comments where I am not duplicating some of the already fine comments. 1. Calls and emails do not count as much as good old fashioned Registered Mail, Return Receipt Requested. 2. People act when there is liability: you need to express in the letters that your personal property (artwork, furniture) is being destroyed due to the leaks and humidity and that you have a medical condition that makes you highly allegeric to mold and mildew and that you are having reactions (due likely to mold BEHIND the walls 3. Money makes the world go around (and building staff act): what has your tipping policy been like for the staff, just asking... 4. I hate to sound sexist, but my wife insists that I always deal with macho types: is there someone (father, boyfriend, etc that you can place in front of you on this, someone not afraid of screaming and cursing a little?: lawyers work also, but as mentioned above they cost money). 5. Finally, out of desperation, does a board member by change live below you? If so, running some water to allow moisture spots to form in the apartment below will prove to all that there is a leak in the building that is causing greater structural issues than just your apartment: ONLY KIDDING : ) Good luck.

You people are amazing. I am so grateful for all the suggestions, and what you say is truly empowering. In addition to be taken seriously is new and uplifting. I should have asked you earlier.
This certainly proofs social theorist Jonathan Zittrain's thesis, that the internet is kind and friendly. (In case someone is interested: http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_zittrain_the_web_is_a_random_act_of_kindness.html)

Now, to answer a few background questions: My plan was to fulfill a lifelong dream to have a home in NYC. From an investment point of view I've made many mistakes. I over-renovated the place and furnished it like I envisioned my dream place, in both cases exceeding my budget. I underestimated the cost of maintaining an apartment in NYC. Funds are running low.

Regarding law suits: I do shy away from the possibility to invest in a stock that's plummeting, throwing good money after bad.
To achieve what should be my unquestionable right.
But after listening to you, I'm considering to do it.
If I can find an attorney to represent me in this case.

From your comments I have now learned that I might not even find a lawyer to represent me, if all I wanted to achieve would be that the roof gets repaired. (probably well below 100K)
Something that needs to be done anyway.
Since I am a shareholder in this building, I guess that everything else would hurt me as well.

I have been renovating and causing inconvenience for the staff, so I've been tipping like mad. I'm friendly and respectful, so we got along great - until about 4 months after I first reported the leak (and, not getting a response from the management, turned to the one board member whose contact info I found on her website)

It was shortly before Christmas, and I was very generous to the staff, but still suddenly everybody became very unfriendly and patronizing. Like someone has been badmouthing me.

Also, around the time, my apartment was completed including furniture etc. and I invited everybody on my floor and everybody I met in the elevator over for coffee or a glass of wine, but nobody responded. Not even the people who had been friendly before, while I was renovating.
So it became quite unpleasant to even meet somebody.

Here and there I've heard a comment like "she better stop complaining about me" (Super) - which I never did!
Or I overheard something like: This european gal thinks she's entitled to special treatment.

I know that the manger was threatening that if "my" water damage would be addressed, the building could not afford something else everybody was waiting for (which, btw. has not been done either, within three years), because that's what he said to me as well, later, once he finally inspected the damage inside my apt.

I had had a certain time frame I could spend in NYC, so I tried to get the management to inspect the leak within the five months I had left. I called 2 times/week and sent an e-mail when nobody called me back. So maybe I was a nuisance. I was nervous to leave without having done something about the leak. That's how it started.

front_porch: yes, I had the impression it made a big difference being a female. And oldgrayhair: yes, many times I wished I had a male macho to take over for me:)

But, like I said, now I feel empowered by you people, thanks.

153 - Sorry for more confusion. No matter how small your damages are, you will have no problem finding an attorney to represent you; the problem just becomes whether the attorney bills will be higher than the actual damages caused by the incident. For example, it can cost a few thousand dollars just to get many attorneys to draft a letter. There are attorneys who will do it for much less, but like any profession, there is a wide range in competence. For big ticket disputes, the easiest thing to do is go with a big name firm where some level of quality is more likely than a random name out of the yellow pages. I have given you one name that came to me from another source, but I am not in position to vouch for competence directly. If you want to pay for name that your coop will take seriously, I believe Rosenberg Estis is one that people take seriously without question. So, if you are willing to pay top dollar, you could also ask for consultation there. Their telephone number is 212-867-6000, and you can find out more about them by googling "Rosenberg Estis." Again, good luck.

NYCNovice, o.k., I understand, thank you.
If I go to court and win, in Europe the defendant would have to refund my legal fees in addition to (in my case) repairing the roof. Do I have to pay the legal fees in any case in NY?
Because then I would certainly not go for big name firm. I think I would also feel more comfortable consulting someone like the attorney you've mentioned earlier. I found his website and quite liked it: http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/10019-ny-todd-lamb-930516/website.html

Before we go too far into discussing a courtroom case,

1) the original post mainly discussed a desire to get the roof & leak fixed. It's quite possible, even probable, that to solve this specific problem will only need to scare the managing agent with an attorney letter- perhaps it needs to threaten a lawsuit and/or have deadlines for action, but the main point is to create leverage not to actually follow-through and incur expense for such;

2) the discussion has moved into how to make up for the decay in the unit from the leak. That's a lot different and would probably require a suit with related expense, drawing of trenches in building relations. I wouldn't assume the building, a small one with likely no free funds, has the resources to engage in litigation, no matter how high-end the managing agent is, but you have to judge how much resources you can devote to this also - you would have to document damage and either put up funds or find a lawyer who wants to work on contingency who would then take 20-35% of your winnings, if there are any.

crescent22 - I might have been unclear before. All I want to achieve is to get the roof fixed and the damages inside my apt caused by the leak.
I have been unsuccessful to get the management to address this issue for so long, caught in the treadmill of implausible excuses, that I probably need to hire someone to achieve some progress.

153 - Regarding whether parties bear their own expenses or whether there will be fee-shifting to losing party requires examination of the documents that govern your relationship with your coop, as well as any statutes that might be relevant. Qualified attorney will be able to answer that question, as well as perform due diligence on what type of adversary your coop board might be. Re Mr. Lamb, his credentials look great, and someone recommended him to us; that's all I know!

how could you sell this unit with obvious water damage?

P.S. to crescent22 - She has already spoken to one attorney who advised her not to pursue. She needs name of another attorney to provide second opinion and write letter you recommend.

It should be apparent that this building and management will not lay out any money to fix anything inside the unit. That will require litigation. Even if there is a clause in the co-op documents saying the co-op will fix damages caused by a common area problem, you will require litigation to enforce it and/or they will say that is what homeowners' insurance is for.

You can get them to fix the roof using paper and ink from the angriest and most stern of printers, but I doubt such a letter will get them to pay for expenses inside the unit.

If you need to sell the place, despite obvious water damage, you need to work with a fraudster. Anyone know any fraudsters in NYC or maybe up in Columbia County?

I think your biggest problem is the lack of incentive for the managing agent or the board to take action. They have little downside in stalling you further and they've probably dealt with similar issues multiple times. That's why you need a lawyer, to give them greater downside. I had a friend with a similar problem, but with a very smart lawyer who had dealt with this many times (I can get you the name if you want). And here's how they created the downside for the managing agent and the board: The leak has caused mold (it almost always does) and I'm now having medical issues. And I have a small child staying in the unit and the child is having medical issues too. And you've known about this leak for xx years and haven't done anything about it.

Then you'll ask for mold specialists and testing the apartment, the furniture, etc. And the damages can be huge, especially when you get medical liability. It's going to take more than 1 letter from a good lawyer, but with enough pressure, you will get results because you've created bigger risks and an urgency for the board and the managing agent.

So, get a good lawyer and get one now. Don't worry about court, it's unlikely to go that far, you'll get a settlement first. Hopefully, that settlement will include your legal costs, but that's going to depend on your lawyer and the strength of your claim. And good luck to you!

definitely use a phrase like Goldie suggests, "medical issues".

Dysfunctional coop stories fascinate me because I can fathom a situation where one might be willing to take a large loss just to be free of a hostile living situation (e.g., selling unit with water damage at price commensurate with physical condition of the unit - whether water damage here is obvious or not is beside the point b/c I presume NYC seller disclosure laws require seller to reveal water damage that they are aware of, whether it is obvious or not). However, if the coop board has turned on the shareholder to the degree that the shareholder is willing to sustain such a loss, it would appear shareholder's ability to sell could be thwarted by the same people who made shareholder want to leave - coop board might not approve any buyer where they deem sale price too low, and then shareholder is just stuck. Litigation is expensive where there is no fee-shifting, and even where there is fee shifting, any litigation is risky because witnesses, attorneys and judges are not perfect, and the cost of losing is even higher if loss entails paying other party's fees. If OP's situation is one where her damages are too low to attract a contingency-fee attorney (or where she does not want to risk having to pay other side's fees if fee-shifting is in play) and where she does not have cash to outlay for litigation, then she could be stuck in purgatory. What a nightmare; I hope the legal system works things out here so that OP and her coop board can either live in peaceful coexistence or part company. I noticed NWT was silent on this thread. Wish someone could provide a real life example where it all worked out in the end.

Oh my...all valid points. and my heart is sinking.
The water damage is very obvious and in case of selling I wouldn't try to hide it.
It would not surprise me either if the board would not accept a buyer at a price too low...

I have noticed that I've been coughing consistently when I'm there and was worried about mold because of that. When I checked the moist areas I couldn't spot any mold, though.
walls are painted, no wallpaper.
It seems overwhelming to me to make a case there and try to proof a connection..
Looks like I would have to spend a lot of time and money I'd never get back for testing, doctor, lawyer, and most likely never be able to actually proof that mold was the causation for my coughing..
(btw, what kind of doctor would I see about the coughing when suspecting that mold could be the cause: a pulmonologist, an allergist?)

That the co-op wouldn't naturally fix damages caused by a common area problem is another depressing consideration. (I don't have insurance)
This won't break me financially, but I know it will be painful for me to accept what seems very unfair to me.

To fight just to be proven right at my own expense doesn't really satisfy me.
I can see that I could probably fight for compensation on multiple levels, but don't have the means nor the nerves to go for it.

i am curious as to how you reconcile your thoughts from two yrs ago with your current situation.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/13361-what-are-my-rights-when-applying-for-approval-by-a-coop-board

Don't despair until after you've had qualified attorney review entire situation. I am rooting for you (and it appears many others are as well).

Don't be discouraged by NYCNovice. Others and myself had suggested several times that starting the legal process may already be enough to force the board to settle. Pay up and/or repair. Do not think of all these inspector, appraisor or medical test be very expensive and time consuming. They are not. I repeat, They are really really cheap and easy. All could be done with may be $5K US or less. The lawyer's fee would not be that bad either if the case is eventually settled.

All these would be much easier and cheaper than trying to sell an unsellable apartment with brokers fee and your loss in property value.

Thanks for the encouragement.
Goldie, would you give me the name of the lawyer you mentioned previously?
Also, what do you guys think about these possibilities:

report apartment maintenance problem
http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/tenants/how_to_report.shtml

tenants request for inspection
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/housing/forms/inspectionrequest.pdf

NYC civil court housing
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/housing/repairstenants.shtml

"That the co-op wouldn't naturally fix damages caused by a common area problem is another depressing consideration. (I don't have insurance)"

In most co-ops, this is a major violation of your proprietary lease.

do yourself a huge favor. get a lawyer. lay out the facts. this will most likely be free or relatively cheap. listen to what he/she tells you about your options and possible remedies/costs. if it doesn't make sense, repeat this with another lawyer.

do not engage with any of the agencies above first. you will only further antagonize your neighbors and will still need a lawyer.

Just to sum up, the roof and apartment have been inspected, but the landlord (the co-op) is being slow about fixing the roof and repairing the plaster damage. (The co-op doesn't have to repaint or fix anything else.)

A letter from a lawyer to the managing agent, asking for a status update and detailing conditions inside the apartment, would be the first step.

What any of this will get you is another story. Just the fact that the board doesn't post a list of its members on the f'ing bulletin board, instead leaving the OP to track down a single name, says a lot about the building culture.

On the other hand, there could be attitude issues on both sides.

Todd Lamb's name rang a bell. Just from looking at eCourts, he knows his way around this stuff. I know diddley about his litigation skills, but a friend who does know him as a scholar and writer has nothing but praise for him.

NYCMatt: not in my Coop. I have read the proprietary lease thoroughly. There is a suggestion, but each shareholder has the choice.

NWT, good to know there's more recommendations for T. Lamb. I'll ask him first.

You don't carry insurance? How is that possible? ( This roof issue is still the responsibility of the coop--not yours--but I'm surprised you aren't covered for other things.)

Did you or the first contractor see any water damage before or during renovation?
This type of leak does not usually just spontaneously erupt out of nowhere.

Your money would be better spent to hire YOUR OWN contractor and determine exactly where the leak is coming from. Ask him for an estimate on what it would cost to keep the water out of your apartment - NOT necessarily Fix the roof. Contractors will always opt to "do the job right" but if you explain your situation and the issues with the building I'm sure you can find someone to help you waterproof your apartment even if the water still may be damaging the building or another neighbor. If you can get the water to travel to another apartment then at least you'll have someone else complaining too. (similar to what ab_11218 suggested.)
Tell the board your new contractor is painting.

DO NOT sue the landlord (Coop) while you are still a shareholder. These parasites are not like normal people and often view lawsuits as a form of amusement. They have potent "Risk Management" insurance policies which will cover their legal expenses. Even though you're in a relatively small building you can count on the fact that the Landlord (sponsor) still controls the board and management. These landlords have generations of experience in these matters and often have fortunate affiliations in the courts and legislature.
And certainly Do Not manufacture false health claims. The expense that it would cost to prove that in court would be astronomical even if you could find someone to help you fluff up your damages.

Also DO NOT stop paying your maintenance. Regardless of what people say regarding the Warranty of Habitability Law. You simply don't have the same rights as a traditional renter. They will evict you and steal your apartment.
That's just how they've corrupted the Business Corporation Law which governs Coop "shareholders".
The links that you just posted would favor an actual renter. And even though a Coop shareholder is technically a renter, you quickly learn that you have no rights. Trying to use "tenant rights" will just turn this into a bigger pissing contest.

Based on your story, It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the leak was created for you after you pissed off the wrong person(s) during your first renovation.
And I see from your 2010 post that your an all cash buyer. Unfortunately you're one of their favorite forms of prey.
Do make sure you sell the apartment before you become elderly as well. An elderly all cash foreign investor with no local family is their favorite food.

I hope you'll take the time to write to elected New York and Federal officials and advocates. The more complaints the better. People are waking up to this ponzi scheme and you should tell your story to anyone who is willing to listen.
The one thing that these maggots hate is having daylight shined on them.

Best of luck, you'll need it.

Vic64 - I think if you read my comments carefully you will see that I have been encouraging, and where you perceive my comments as discouraging, further examination will reveal that I am addressing the comments made by Crescent22 (there will be no remedy for OP without litigation) and Columbia County (she won't be able to sell unit with water damage), as well as recognizing that OP has already consulted one attorney who told her not to bother and has received feedback from other posters that "this is the way it is," "don't bother," etc. I am an active participant in the market right now, very much weighing pros and cons of coop vs. condo. My last comment was intended to solicit NWT's input, because he is the poster whose opinion I respect the most on situations such as the one at hand.

NWT - As always, THANK YOU for sharing your thoughts.

NYCNovice, you gave me great advice in addition to understanding my concern about passing on the problem to a future buyer.
Hopefully I will be able to be back one day and "provide a real life example where it all worked out in the end", like you wished for earlier.

I was not aware of the tenant and tenant differences when it comes to rights and resources yet.
There seems to be a lot of them for traditional tenants, now I know that's not for me.

153 - I hope so too. Btw - just read the other thread, and see that you encountered thereon Alanhart; I, too, heart Alanhart. I particularly like it when he and Huntersburg get going in tandem.

NYCNovice, yes <3 Alanhart :)

andwin, you may have some useful points in there, but they're swamped in all the conspiracy-theorizing and paranoia.

Let's be practical. 153 doesn't own the building and can't have her contractor tear her apartment apart to waterproof it from the inside out. The co-op can most likely rig up a tarp or something on the roof to keep the water out until a permanent fix is found.

In my building there were still some leaks even after a new roof and re-flashing, so we ended up having to clad the inside of a section of parapet wall to finally solve the problem. While all that went on, some walls inside were replastered several times. It's just the nature of flat roofs and water.

ok, now I saw that Columbiacounty asked me about some older post on SE. No need to doubt my credibility, because not every given information matches. It might be overcautious to alter some unimportant information, because people who are causing me problems, could read what I write and use it to my disadvantage, but that's what I did. Apparently I did a bad job at that, anyway. Didn't even think about adapting information.
But all essential information regarding the problems I was asking advice for are authentic and as described.

153 - Don't worry; everyone on this board understands that and many of us have done the same. I did not see any inconsistency in material facts. Hang in there and don't let CC bother you.

Clearly there is more to this story than we are being told.

Here is another post from OP

153
about 5 months ago
Posts: 108
Member since: Dec 2006
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Anyone needs a brand new W/D for half the price?
http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/WM3455HS.html
After I did a gut renovation (including all new plumbing down to the lower floor- Coop requirement), and I heard that the laundry in the basement of my building was already closed for renovations for over a year, I had a washer/dryer installed in my apt.
I had a disagreement with the building contractor I used for the majority of the work (I had been told that using him was my only chance to get approval fast), so he reported my W/D to the board.
Right after I moved in the management informed me that I had to remove the W/D ASAP.
I offered to pay a fine for violating Coop rules, or even a monthly "maintenance fee", but, no mercy.
I'm from Europe, where EVERYBODY has a private washing machine (and you know, our buildings are really old..), so that's some new experience for me..

She installed a washer/dryer against building policy and was surprised that they demanded that she remove it? And the excuse is that she is from Europe?

NWT, I agree.
So in your building the parapet walls were the problem..I've noticed that they partially have been clad in my building as well.
Maybe there was a leak years ago. The clads look old. Apart from that the roof doesn't look so bad.

CC - Of course there is more to the story, and the lawyers will work it out. 153 has been very forthcoming in acknowledging that this coop was not the right fit for her, a fact which was apparent to her during the application process. Do you really need her to detail every confrontation she has had over the past few years?

Yes, columbiacounty, that's correct.
It might be very naive to think that some things work the same in all developed countries. Try living somewhere else and you'll find out.
It really didn't dawn on me that a W/D could be a problem.
But please note that I immediately, without any excuse or delay, followed the board's request to remove it, once I learned I shouldn't have one.
I made a mistake and paid for it.

I don't see how this would justify that water leaks from the roof affecting my apt wouldn't be addressed, though.

In case you're on my board, since you're so eager to expose me as a fraud here - please, let's get this over with and fix the leak.
It's not just hurting me, but the substance of the building.
An then let's live in peace happily ever after.
Thanks.

Unfortunately, this disclosure is relevant in that it goes toward the ongoing relationship between the Board and OP and thus their willingness to settle this dispute amicably.

Knowing this now, you definitely need to engage a lawyer just to step up the contacts/negotiation to a more official level. Nothing will happen with your contacts to the super or managing agent. Further, the first letter definitely won't achieve anything but it will set up a second phase of the negotiation where your lawyer creates the downside so eloquently described by goldie.

the fact that OP doesn't understand why her neighbors would be angered by her installation of a washer/dryer in a building that doesn't allow them speaks volumes. at some point, ignorance is not only not a reasonable defense but can be quite irritating to the others with whom you are living.

no one has suggested that OP is a fraud other than OP.

crescent22 - the one board member said that the board was very satisfied about my immediate compliance with their request and that they appreciated it. She said she didn't see any problems going forward.
Apart from the fact that I don't know who's in the board now, I had the impression it was all good between us.

153: you have access to the roof w/o first going through super? Just wondering, because maybe you can go up there with a bucket of flashing material and just mitigate the problem. Pick a dry couple of days.

CC-There are W/D's in my building. The building plumber told me so.
Of course you need to be a board member to get an exception.
Still, I accepted my fate as a peasant, and got rid of mine without opposition.
Some people like to kick somebody who's already on the floor.
I am miserable, even desperate, so feel free to rejoice.

crescent22 - 153 knows she needs a lawyer; she noted in her initial post that her relationship with coop has already deterioriated to hostile environment.

cc - 153's neighbors' apparent annoyance/dislike of her does not allow coop to disregard its contractual obligations to her.

153 - I am sympathetic to your cause on many levels. When I lived in France over 20 years ago, my language skills and willingness to abide by contractual obligations were not in question (as yours do not appear to be here), but my lack of complete understanding of cultural norms lead to some issues that evaporated over time as people got to know me. I look back on the entire experience with humor and fondness now, but it was not fun at the time.

nyc10023 - I have gone there several times, with a flashlight and a magnifier..could not find the problem. water travels far in some cases, and the roof is huge. I wouldn't even know where to start.

This may not be a cultural issue.

http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2010/10/inside_story_my_nine_year_leak

NYCNovice - I'm touched by your insight, thanks for understanding. What you're saying about your time in France exactly describes my experience in the U.S. There is so much distrust and assumptions that I'm doing things differently to intentionally break rules, while I'm really at a loss so many times. Traveling to the U.S. a lot in previous years I thought I knew how things work, but it's a totally different story once you really live there, open a bank account, have a cable contract, etc. all the everyday things you didn't expect to be different.
People who have never lived abroad often don't have much mercy for my apprenticeship-mistakes and misunderstandings.

It is in the middle of today in the middle of the week here in NYC now. Please turn off your computer for a minute. Take a deep breath and make a phone call to a lawyer now. Don't let another slip by.

This thread is compelling to me not only because I empathize with OP based on my own personal experience living abroad and having bad rental experience in NYC, but also because we are considering coop ownership, and I am worried about how much power coop boards have, particularly because we would not be full-time residents. As I have noted before, buying into a coop seems like marrying into a family, the crazy side of which you are never going to know until after the vows have been taken. However, all the charming prewar stock appears to be coop. Culture compatibility seems paramount, and I will be asking broker (hopefully Front_Porch!) a lot more questions on how buyer can feel comfortable in this area.

nyc10023 - nice story:) But 9 years..oy vey..
vic64 - writing from abroad. will do as soon as I'm back.

NYCNovice - absolutely, yes, the charming prewar stock are Coops.
But, not only because of my own experience, but because of so many stories I've read, I would not do it again.

On the other hand, you're way more sympathique than I am, and you're married, which seems to be an advantage in some Coops, so I'm optimistic that in your case it will work out fine.
Also, I would suggest you go on the board right away. I talked to somebody who did just that, and everything (renovations, etc.) worked like a charm.

I just received a quote for mold inspection from http://www.envirocsm.com/, in case someone is interested who has a similar problem:

Mold Inspection Service Includes:
· A comprehensive visual inspection of your living space and the exterior of your home.
· Moisture testing and leak detection with a digital moisture meter.
· Air and/or surface samples will be collected by our certified inspector, and sent to a third party laboratory for analysis.
· A full report with pictures will be sent directly to your email, which will include the types of mold identified, air quality analysis, the on-site inspector’s notes, as well as recommendations for remediation (if needed), and estimate for remediation services through our company.
· One (1) free hour of consultation with a certified Mold Interpretation Specialist.
· All reports are legal documentation.
· We are proud to be the only company in the industry to offer a 10 year warranty on all mold remediation services.

Service Options: (up to 2000SF)
Option #1 – Limited Scope Inspection/Testing Service
The total cost is $395.00 and includes four (4) samples for laboratory analysis.

153, just ignore columbiacounty, he's been known to be very pro co-op board, like NYCMatt, and very anti-shareholder and anti-tenant.

huntersburg, thx

here's a good piece of advice not to ignore.

columbiacounty
about 23 hours ago
Posts: 10955
Member since: Jan 2009
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do yourself a huge favor. get a lawyer. lay out the facts. this will most likely be free or relatively cheap. listen to what he/she tells you about your options and possible remedies/costs. if it doesn't make sense, repeat this with another lawyer.

do not engage with any of the agencies above first. you will only further antagonize your neighbors and will still need a lawyer.

There are many good Co-Op stories , and many bad Co-Op stories .
It's up to you to investigate your building , before you move in

Re due diligence on coops, totally understand; should we get there, I will be looking up other owners on ACRIS, asking friends, everything I can.

Coming back to this thread because comment about e-courts made me curious. I went and reviewed some of Mr. Lamb's work, and I would not hesitate to use him myself based on that review. I know my opinion is just some random voice on the Internet, but 153 is in the wilderness here, and I don't want her to end up in a situation like Fitipaldi's client on that other thread who likely felt wronged and proceeded down a curious path indeed.

NYCNovice, I will certainly ask Mr. Lamb (and report again, once it's over, how it turned out.)
Could you point me to this other tread, please? Maybe I could learn something from it.