Salary

Let me break it down ghetto style to u wanna be braniacs. Its not that hard. Paying yo rent with 1 week pay in manhattan = Uppa class.. 2 weeks = middle class... 3 weeks or more = take yo punk azz back to DA BRONX

That's pretty simplistic, MIBNYC.

And yet, a great rough classification.

@ Matt ... i remember reading in TIMEOUT mag how people using 50% to 75% or more just to live in manhattan as ROOMMATES !! Is was like RAMEN NOODLES for life !!!

50 to 75 % of monthly salary i meant

Mib, any update on your relative who got swindled?

> Let me break it down ghetto style to u wanna be braniacs. Its not that hard. Paying yo rent with 1 week pay in manhattan = Uppa class.. 2 weeks = middle class... 3 weeks or more = take yo punk azz back to DA BRONX

you need to get this in context. you are thinking about current housing costs after the biggest housing bubble in history as if they are here to stay. the wealthy actually aim to spend 10% of HHI on housing (that's 3 days, or half a week). the middle class forgot that 30% should be the max when it comes to all housing related expenses, that's a little more than 1 week.

what this definition says is that we are still in bubble-mentality. so stay the hell away from buying RE!

am i UMC cause we spend "1 week" in housing costs or less? hell no! being smart enough to understand the bubble doesn't make me UMC, just financially literate.

@ Greenday ... she is going to consult with the title company and I suggested A attorney for her. This board was a great help in directing me how to help her. Thanks and i will keep you updated.

@ Notmoaning ...DUDE, Im was giving a rough estimate on how you can live comfortably. Some PEOPLE can pay a 25k mortgage without a problem because they make that type of money and want to live at the DAKOTA if they like. It STILL comes down to YO WEEKLY CHECK on what you can afford without stressing yourself.

@notadmin

1 week paycheck = ~12% post tax, isn't this similar to the number u quoted (10%) or do u mean 10% post tax

> 1 week paycheck = ~12% post tax, isn't this similar to the number u quoted (10%) or do u mean 10% post tax

I LOVE this comment! actually, the guidelines of housing costs as % of income is over gross (pre-tax, not after-tax, what you call "post tax"). so 1 week paycheck to pay the monthly rent or housing-burden is ~ 25% of pre-tax income. not UMC at all! but reasonably affordable. nothing to write home about if you come from a financially literate home. the max being 30%. the wealthy aim for 10% in order to facilitate building real wealth. sad reality: many in the middle class doesn't know what to do with $ expect from buying real estate.

see? what has been defined here are UMC is actually close to the maximum, meaning, we are still in bubble territory. so our household should wisely remain on the sidelines while renting cheaply.

imho many middle class households had been playing a perverse game of bidding up prices against each other. the only winners had been local gov through transfer taxes and original sellers. the conclusion is that they will be totally unprepared for retirement cause instead of saving ~20%/yr, they are doing a paltry 5%. that extra 15% went stupidly towards inflating housing-costs.

given this, i'll have to tell my dc to diversify away from earning from wages, cause the mass of unprepared retirees will try to take it all from young wage-earners. so young kiddos need protection from that AARP grab imho.

Ok .. Let me ask a easy question and lets see how you guys respond. Married guy in Manhattan coming home with 20-25k monthly AFTER Uncle Sam Phuks you, what would you spend monthly for housing ?

"I LOVE this comment! actually, the guidelines of housing costs as % of income is over gross (pre-tax, not after-tax, what you call "post tax"). so 1 week paycheck to pay the monthly rent or housing-burden is ~ 25% of pre-tax income."

No.

We're talking about one week's NET pay covering the entire rent/mortgage/housing nut.

@notadmin

paycheck = after-tax income to most people (since most people are W2)

meaning that 1 week paycheck = 25% x tax rate or about 12-15% of gross monthly

Somewhere at http://furmancenter.org/research/sonychan/2011-report/ there's one of those overlay maps showing range of rent burden by neighborhood. It's in line with the usual money indicators.

In the housing business, 30%+ of gross HHI is called "rent-burdened" and 50%+ is "severely rent-burdened".

Same with ownership costs, but there the "severely burdened" threshold is 60%.

@MIBNYC

$25k after tax = $500k annual gross
$4k max
I'm guessing no kids, otherwise would spend less

actually maybe even less if it is W2 income

To pay a mortgage+maintenence of 10k in total ... what would be a good monthly net ?

gross pre tax annual min 500k plus 50k per kid in public school plus 100k per kid in private school. Allows you to save 75-100k per year.

$40,000

Matt >>$40,000

For you to come home with $40k net a month you have to be pulling in a Mil a yr if im not mistaken. Damn !!

for once i almost agree with matt. i would say $1million if co-op and $800-900k if condo

>> We've had a housing bubble and the effects are going to linger through long-term flatness in prices, so what? As a wealthy person, you have choice. You can get yourself all worked up about having to bear the indignity of a proletariat $3M classic 7, ever grasping for the valhalla of a $6M version of the same overlooking the park, fighting imaginary demons about being forced to move every 2 year if you rent (the last people in my current apt lived here for 7 years, I'll be here for at least 3). Or you can just go rent the the $6M apt for $15K, about the same cost as the $3M apt, and carry on with life.

do you mean central park? I am interested in the C7 rental overlooking park for $15k...inonada, where can I find this please?

This was earlier in the thread. Not a C7, better IMO. You don't get 80' of CP frontage in a C7. But this ship has already sailed.

---------

Of course if you want to play it like me, you pick up something like this for $15K. 3BR, 2500+ sq ft, newly-renovated, 80 ft of high-floor direct Central Park frontage.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/961239-condop-230-central-park-south-central-park-south-new-york

Right, but when you say "you can just go rent the $6M [classic 7] apt for $15K", presumably thre would be a classic 7 like this available , something that's not a duplex, something on UES or UWS, one would think.

A quick search produced the following:

This one fits the bill but asking $22,500...

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/971760-rental-25-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

On the East Side....not a classic 7, but sort of a 6-ish...

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/1000339-rental-800-fifth-avenue-lenox-hill-new-york

This one's probably the closest to what you described, but it's $18,000 in sub-prime UWS...

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/950240-condo-353-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

Am I missing some listings? Not seeing any Park-view C7's for $15k.

I've seen them at or within striking distance of $15K before, don't know what's on the market at this moment. Like all rentals, the best ones go fast. Flexibility helps. If your criteria is "it must be exactly a C7 on the UWS south of 86th St at a great price at this exact moment", you won't always be satisfied. If you're opportunistic, then you'll get somewhere.

Looking at your 25 CPW listing. At $18.5K previous asking rent, something interesting. Could sit at $22.5K, already chopped from $25K. It is 4 buildings away from the 230 CPS option (which is now gone). A series of trade-offs. Upside for the 25 CPW one: single-floor, C7 & pre-war, corner exposure. Upside for the 230 CPS one: double the frontage (80') w/ virtually all rooms facing CP, higher-floor, larger, no awkward 12x7 maid's room, 3 proper bedrooms, price.

You can sit and nit-pick about "Well, it's not a C7". Or you can just take the obviously better of two similar options and enjoy. That's obviously the choice that was made by the person who took the 230 CPS apt and passed on the 25 CPW one.

Great points ino. You really know your stuff and made this thread worth reading. Also, nyc123 had a good point that unless you fall into the trap of trying to keep up with the Jones like a few other posters here, you really can live a good life in Manhattan. Yes, $1 million used to go a long way in Manhattan but Manhattan 20 years ago was a drugged out, dangerous city. If you want to live somewhere like that, you can make less than $100k and do that nowadays so some people really do need a reality check. And with $1 million/year you can live in pretty much any other city in the country, send your kids to great schools, and not worry about money.

Also, the Mib character needs to stop trolling his own thread. Money isn't everything but if you are going to base your entire existence on your salary, you'll need way more than $250k before you start lording it over others without looking foolish.