118 East 60th Street

And why is the entire building for sale?

Haven't seen the apartments but 60th street is quite bleak between Lex and 3rd. The entire south side of the block is a windowless brick wall (the north side and loading docks of Bloomingdale's). So 118 E 60th is between Lex and Park but right around the corner is a mess, plus the 59th street express subway stop ensures lots of people, some of whom probably do not live on nearby Park Avenue.

And I think it's an on ramp for the bridge...no?

yes, 60th is one of the off ramps for the bridge, east of 3rd Ave.

I looked at a 2BR in apartment in the building. The building itself seemed fine. The layout was awful and it smelled badly (great combo). I think brodie summed up the block quite well. It is a very very congested area.

Nxt,
Can you be more specific. I am thinking of buying in this building. The traffic issues don't really bother me at all but the co-op board could be an issue. Can you elaborate?

sashua,
consider the block that you make your home or you investment. It's not important to you now but, it will be when you live there. As an investment, consider the hassel with selling. Just my 2 cents worth.

the traffic situation is mitigated in large part by the very easy accessibility of the subway (456, NR on the corner, F three blocks away) and excellent taxi availability 1/2 a block away on Park even at the peak of rush hour. the other advantage of the building is that it's the views from the higher floors are completely unobstructed and hunter college is the only building remotely as tall all the way north. the roof deck is also fantastic.

Nxt,

I too would like to know more about the Board.

Mickbcm,

Would you elaborate on the issue of smells?

One of the things that bothered me about this block was that everyone puts garbage in the street for pickup and so there always seem to be bags of garbage.

One of the things that makes no sense is that the Board doesn't allow terraces to be enclosed.

Finally, there is a "no pets" policy. I wonder why.

i think mickbcm was talking about a specific apartment he was looking at

regarding the street that is really actually a big problem all over the upper east side... it's really sanitation's fault for not creating a schedule and sticking to it

no pets means you are never disturbed by your neighbor's barking dog

"Haven't seen the apartments but 60th street is quite bleak between Lex and 3rd. The entire south side of the block is a windowless brick wall (the north side and loading docks of Bloomingdale's). So 118 E 60th is between Lex and Park but right around the corner is a mess, plus the 59th street express subway stop ensures lots of people, some of whom probably do not live on nearby Park Avenue"

I'm not sure how you think a so so block being nearby affects the quality of life of this block. This is a MUCH nicer block. It is not dark, its got some cute stuff on it. And most of the bridge traffic has subsided at that point (either turning down 2nd or going up 3rd). I believe you can't even turn onto lex.Its near the subway but thats a fantastic thing.

The crowds are on 3rd and lex... they aren't walking over to Park.

And so the only question is the Board. Does anyone know about the Board? We are getting close to making a serious offer on an apartment in the building and would appreciate anything anyone really knows. Thanks.

The Board is strict but reasonable. They will want to see all of your financial details and be very confident you can afford the payments (including having sufficient cash reserves post purchase as to not worry). And that you aren't going to have a lot of loud and obnoxious parties.

We have just bought an apartment in this building and so can say that the Board Process was perfectly reasonable...for a co-op. We looked at apartments in 2 lines. The "G" line is a 1,300ish sq. ft. 2 bedroom apartment that faces south and east. To the east is a tall commercial building that you look right into and to the south, you have to get to the 30th floor to get a real sense of light and air. So the apartments that otherwise would be perfectly nice feel very closed in and that's why they are cheap. Also, the apartments we saw all needed complete renovation as they look like they hadn't been changed since the 60's.

The apartments in the "H" line are the same configuration but about 150 sq. ft. larger. They face south and west and when you are on a higher floor they have a great westerly view providing a ton of light and air. When you get over the 30th floor the view to the south includes a view of the Chrysler building. We looked at one on the 27th floor that needed renovation and didn't have that southern view and it eventually sold for under $900,000 for 1400 sq. ft terrace. Sounded cheap to me. We also looked at one on the 34th floor that had a great view and it sold for under a million dollars for 1,400 sq. ft. and a terrace. It too had to be completely renovated. We had no interest in renovating and so we bought one that was not on the market that had been completely renovated already.

Frankly, I agree that the prices here give great value for money if this is the neighborhood where you wish to live. We do and we hope that the Board runs a good building.

dca, how much in liquid assets does the board look for? Thanks and enjoy your new home.

newbuyer99, I must admit that I don't know the answer to your question. We were an all cash buyer and apparently had more than enough for them. I would suggest that you discuss this openly with your broker. Nobody wants to waste time and eventually it will come out. Good luck.

We have lived in the building for 3 months and think it's very well run. No reason I can see why the apartments seem under-priced. Fear not.

"I'm not sure how you think a so so block being nearby affects the quality of life of this block. This is a MUCH nicer block. It is not dark, its got some cute stuff on it. And most of the bridge traffic has subsided at that point (either turning down 2nd or going up 3rd). I believe you can't even turn onto lex.Its near the subway but thats a fantastic thing."

Agreed. Substantial difference crossing lex here. Lex-3rd is pretty bad. Very crowded, its basically a service entrance/loading zone. Lots of tenements about to fall down with really low end dirty stuff below

Over lex, its much calmer, some cute places. Very different block... but just as convenient.

There is a reason the saying is "west of lex"

Can u put a washer dryer in the apt?

the house rules do not permit a washer dryer in the apartments.

The building is very well run and we had very good cooperation for the renovations we undertook. The board approval process was fair, but required a lot of paperwork to be completed at the front end.

The street is noisier than most above 60th because bridge traffic does spill over to the west side from there and there is often garbage set out for pick up on the sidewalks (as elsewhere in Manhattan). There are nice deli/snack places opposite the building and Lex to Park is much better than 3rd to Lex on 60th St. It is a fantastic transportation hub and a short walk to Central Park.

Does anyone know anything about the commercial buildings (Pottery Barn) on 59th Street? Does 118 E 60th own the property or the air rights? I'm considering bidding on a 14th floor unit facing south. So it would be a bummer if one day a taller building blocks the windows.

You mean the Argosy building and the little one next door? They make a sort of alley to the south of 118. No air-rights sales recorded for them.

The Cohen sisters supposedly have no plans to sell, and they've got a third generation working there in a none-better store location.

Never mind, Pottery Barn is in the commercial base on which 118 sits. It's all one building, and nothing can be build in the 60th St yard or on top of the 59th St retail.

NWT: what do you mean by one building? Do you mean 118 E 60th owns the commercial buildings on 59th and Pottery Barn and William Somona are tenants? Why can't anything be built above the retail space? Who has air rights?

Also, you mentioned previously that the Board is the worst, why?

It was Nxt, not me, who said the board was board was bad. dca1125 bought there and had no complaints.

Pottery Barn and Williams-Sonoma aren't separate buildings. They just look as if they are.

The co-op's lot runs all 200' through the block and is 120' wide on 59th and 100' wide on 60th.

The first three floors form a base, with the tower sitting on top. On the north side the whole thing is set back. That's where the curving driveway is.

The developer got to build more square feet in return for providing that 60th St plaza as open space. Nothing can be built there. By the same token, nothing else can be built on top of the three-story base on the 59th St side. So the apartments in the tower, from the fourth floor to 30-something, get extra light and air on the north and south sides. There are no air rights, as the lot is already built out to its maximum square feet.

The co-op leases out the retail/commercial space in the three-floor base to a party who sub-leases it to Williams-Sonoma for its W-S and Pottery Barn stores. I don't know the terms of the leases.

Thanks for the info NWT, very helpful. How do you know all this stuff?

In 1967, one of its architects, Samuel Paul, wrote "Apartments: Their Design and Development". Great period piece, and a lot of its info about development is still true.

Anyway, 118 W 60th was one of his examples. It was one of the first tower-and-open-space rentals, instead of wedding-cake style, after the change in building regulations.

I heard of this book. You're an architect or a historian ?

No; just a hobby.

Hi to all,

I the D line facing 59th st? I see that they are studios which line would you recommend that has most light?
Thanks

The D studio faces north onto 60th but doesn't occur above the 21st floor.

The A and F studios face south onto 59th. There's some discussion below about light.

Thank you NWT.
I assume you live in the building because based on all your posts you have been very helpful. I am interested in buying...
May I ask few questions?
Is there any assessment? sponsor units? Does the building owns the land?
Thanks in advanced.

@ecre: no assessments and very healthy reserve. No sponsor units and yes, land is owned

A number of the listings indicate that this building is pied-a-terre friendly. Is this truly the case? If so, are there any special Board-imposed financial requirements (e.g. minimum liquid assets) for the purchasers of pieds-a-terre? Also, for anyone who has been through it recently, can you comment on the board approval process for this building? Thank you.

Does anyone have insight on the board application process? I'm reading some prior comments on how the board can be a little difficult.

Your finances have to be solid: finance no more than 75% of purchase price, and should have enough cash in your bank account after closing to cover 3 years of maintenance + mortgage. Probably additional liquidity reserves (cash, IRA, 401k, etc.) if you're not an all cash buyer.

Aaron2 thanks for the input on the financials.

Nxt
can you elaborate? If not here on the public board, is there a way to contact you?

Up through the 20th floor the C is a one-bedroom and the D is a studio.

On the 21st-33rd floors there is no D, and the C is a two-bedroom with 2.5 baths.

See http://nyre.cul.columbia.edu/projects/view/16621#images

Just based on chat w/ brokers. There are a number of units available in the building, yet they don't seem to be moving. Unclear if that's lack of interest, or board turn-downs. One broker did mention a turn-down, but didn't have details.

Note the building is between lex and park, not lex and 3rd. And the off ramp (one of many) is second... and it does affect the neighborhood, but between 3rd and 2nd while it has traffic, is very nice (serendipity and some other nice smaller scale stuff). And we're talking couple blocks over.... and really a few blocks from the park. The bigger issue is that it is the border of midtown and UES... but this is also why you have 5 trains down the block.

Note the bloomberg building is a block away, MUCH closer to the bridge mess, and super expensive.

Looked at an apartment here recently. The co-op requires that you have liquid assets that are equivalent to your purchase price.

@somaloft - That's not true in my experience. I think Aaron2 is a lot closer to reality. Who told you this?

I happened to have a chat with the Board President last week.....about other things.......and he mentioned that there is a broker from Corcoran who has been bringing unqualified buyers to the building recently. They have been ridiculous for a coop, even one that allows 75% financing which is very generous for a coop. Apparently, there have been a few turn downs because of this. I asked if there is a "rule" or a "formula" and he indicated that there wasn't. We were cash buyers and that was a few years ago so I can't really comment but here's what I would do...........you have to present a financial statement for any building in which you wish to buy. You have to present your employment history. In other words, you have to explain how you are going to pay the maintenance and the mortgage (if you have one). Do it now. Give it to your broker and ask him to pass it by the Board (informally) to see if you are qualified before you even make an offer. Knowing that you can pass the Board will give you confidence as you make an offer and might make you a more attractive buyer.....said another way, you might buy the apartment at a lower price than if you don't do this. Naturally, the Board will not pre-approve but my guess is that they will encourage you to proceed or caution you that approval might be questionable. Finally, I don't know how the Board is on guarantees of maintenance in questionable situations (young people with parents who can guarantee). Given the folks I see in the elevators my guess is that they don't all work at Goldman.

One more time, we have been asked by several people if we liked the building contractor we used and our answer has been yes. We have been happy to introduce folks with work to do to him and the outcome has always been positive.........not always the case with such "fix ups". Therefore, several years later, we are happy to make the introduction if you would like. These people have done a lot of work in the building over many years and, therefore, know what can be done and what cannot....in all senses of that thought.

doug@d2anderson.com

For those who currently live in the building on Fl 33, can you please tell me if the noise from the roofdeck bothers you (I assume the roofdeck is on Fl 34)?

The board is incredibly strict and the rejection rate is similar to that of an ivy league university. Get ready to be disappointing if you are under 40 years old, if your liquidity does not exceed the full purchase price, if you are taking a mortgage, or if your hair is not perfectly coiffed. Take a look at most of the units for sale today such as 16E. This one has entered into contract 4 times in the past year, and it never sold. Broker won't say, but seems to be rejections each time

No. We under-40-year-olds never disappoint.

Weird as I see two units with that problem. Hard to believe the board of that building is as such. Maybe the listing agent (who has all the listings at the building as of this moment) is not properly vetting the candidates.

Oh, never-mind, I just relooked and included in contract units and others too, not just the open listings. Yikes that is one cursed building.

The primary broker confirmed that there were four rejections on that one unit over the past year! This is commonplace, and is widely known by brokers. Even if you buy here, good luck selling in the future. This is not a matter of vetting out candidates with limited work experience, spotty credit, or questionable character. I know numerous doctors, lawyers, and other professionals who can buy apartments twice the size in cash... who are rejected by this board. Good luck to all.

Ya, seems like it. So I guess that contributes to the low prices. Then I suppose that creates turndowns as the Board tries to keep the recorded prices/comps high. Death spiral!

Rumor has it that this board insists potential buyers sign a contract agreeing that no one--including immediate family members--can stay overnight in the apartment unless the owner is present. Kind of a drastic way to discourage Air BNB.

If you don't want a board making judgements, why even look at a co-op? There're lots of condos in the neighborhood.

There've been eight closings at 118 so far this year, with only four all-cash, so if the board does have an all-cash policy they're not sticking to it.

Just out of curiosity, how does it happen that so many people you know are applying to buy in the same building, and even more strangely, all being turned down? That's really beating the odds, unless you have an exceptionally broad acquaintance.

I believe they have a no debt requirement, if you are a doctor and you still have student loans you will not get approved.

nycondo2013 has hit all the discussions of 118 on SE with their complaints about the strictness of the board, so it looks more like sour grapes, than any real statement about the board's requirements. Unable to sell your unit?

As I mentioned above a while ago, I considered 2 other units in this building, and went far enough down the path to ask the selling broker (not the current broker for 16E) to vet my financials with the seller (who claimed to 'know' the requirements) -- I had debt, but would have been an all cash buyer. I was told it would be no problem. I'll rephrase my statement from an earlier post -- it appears to be about the overall financial position, rather than a single criteria. Clearly, they're a conservative building. Certainly not the most conservative in the neighborhood (hint: walk around the corner and check the requirements on the other nearby white-brick buildings).

That said, let's look at 16E -- i think there's a mystery there. An ACRIS search shows that a variety of people in the last few years have files UCC1s & UCC3s on the place (one of them also seems to own 15E). Either there are a lot of owners squeezed into that 1BR, or ACRIS records are missing the ownership transfers, or ACRIS is just wrong. I don't understand how so many people seem to be using 16E as their cash machine.

17E sold not too long ago at 625k, so it seems unlikely that 16E, unrenovated, is going to get their 675k ask. That said, 12B (more or less mirror image floor plan), renovated, cleared 670k (To Julien Studley, of the real estate company), while 15B cleared only 517k. So maybe they only sell to real-estate professionals. Personally, I think the broker isn't doing a good job of a) managing the seller of 16E's price expectations, and b) vetting candidates' financials.

Good idea, checking the UCC filings. A UCC1 doesn't mean money changed hands, though. A lender will file one months before they lend the money, then if the deal falls through, eventually file a UCC3 to cancel it.

The guy who has UCCs on both 15E and 16E also bought and sold 3E. He has eight UCC1s and six UCC3s on those three apartments between 2002 and 2013. 3E was a reno-and-flip, so maybe those for 15E and 16E were attempts to do the same thing for 15E and 16E that didn't pan out.

And correct that ACRIS can mis-file things. E.g., a filing for 771 WEA is under 711.

Buyers Beware. I was recently rejected by this board. I am an ALL-CASH buyer, with sterling credit, abundant liquidity (cash and marketable securities sufficient to pay for more than a quarter century’s worth of maintenance (!), and no, I am not talking about my 401(k) investments; this is unrestricted, cold, hard cash), a net worth many times the value of the apartment, unblemished employment record (gainfully employed and well-known and respected in the same industry for over two decades, working for a major US company), and excellent references. Oh, and in case you are wondering, I am white. Go figure. No idea what these people are looking for. I really liked the apartment and I would have been a nice, quiet neighbor but in hindsight it’s probably better that I didn’t get in because selling in this building is obviously a nightmare. My attorney had warned me about the many rejections he noticed in the minutes of the board meetings but given my circumstances/credentials, he didn’t think I would have any problems. He would be wrong. Palace coup, anyone?

What apartment # and what was your proposed purchase price? You were probably below the prevailing price/share average.

Ugly bldg, ugly aprtmnts, highish mtnce, prices are not that low given these.

To AMA1, I sympathize. In fact, you brought the first smile to my face in a while. I too was rejected from the building. For what it was worth, I had no debt, I had liquidity sufficient for 10+ years of maintenance (which I offered to pre fund). I showed stellar references. I had an ivy league background (and yes, in case you care, i am caucasian). After wasting 1 month and $2k to the board, I was distraught. Apparently, you feel the same way. I ended up buying an apartment double the size and the board was delighted to have me (and yes, west of park avenue). The board at this building is truly incredible. Don't worry.

(an apartment in a different co-op which is 2x the size). I wonder if the board discriminates based on gender or marital status or age. Or if they just want someone with $20mm liquid to buy an $800k apartment. In either case, average 30 year old construction on a medicocre block. I wonder who is actually on the board. Heard the president of the board is an ambulance chaser

TTFTC, I am glad things worked out for you, sounds like you ended up with a better place. What the board at 118 East 60th Street doesn't seem to realize is that they end up hurting only themselves. With every rejection that shows up in the minutes and every negative post on these discussion boards, the universe of potential buyers just shrinks further and further as very few people will want to take the risk of wasting thousands of dollars (not to mention the time it takes to put the board package together) on attorney fees, application and assorted other fees only to get rejected. And yes, the building is ugly, the hallways are hideous but I liked the proximity to the subway.

GREAT CONTRACTOR..............we've been living here for 7 years and some time ago I posted that people ask us about the contractor we used. We think MONACO is great. Pano and Eddie have cared for our apartment not only when we did our renovation but through the years. They keep coming back when we ask and they are terrific. If you need an introduction, my pleasure doug@d2anderson.com. We live in 31h.

JohnEveryMan, this is discrimination and corruption, why the new owners don't sue the building?

JohnEveryMan: This is not correct: A flip tax was rejected by the shareholders at the 2017 annual meeting.

Anton: How is this corruption?

Aaron2, if JohnEveryMan told the truth, then it is corruption because they are robbing a small group of owners only.

Btw, how come only the white applicants speak up and tell being discriminated, i assume they also discriminate minorities.

Anton, There is a big difference between corruption and what may be unfair to small group of people (in the case of flip tax to sellers) as long as the flip tax is approved as per coop bylaws and rules. Flip taxes may be unfair but are not corruption.

300_mercer, if JohnEveryMan told the truth, they unfairly collect money from owners who bought after 2017 to benefit themselves and the whole building, that's systemic corruption

Just like systemic racism, it is still racism. Systemic corruption is corruption. It doesn't matter how many approvals and by-laws support them.

We have a new troll.

there are lots of personal attacks when people report being discriminated by this building

No one has reported discrimination. They have reported rejections. If their financial, educational, and professional backgrounds were so stellar, then their stories seem unlikely. Their stories don’t add up. No board has an incentive to reject a qualified candidate.

Do you dare to say this in the face of those victimized by corrupt boards?

dca1125...............8 years ago I posted the following and it's true to this day. One more time, we have been asked by several people if we liked the building contractor we used and our answer has been yes. We have been happy to introduce folks with work to do to him and the outcome has always been positive.........not always the case with such "fix ups". Therefore, several years later, we are happy to make the introduction if you would like. These people have done a lot of work in the building over many years and, therefore, know what can be done and what cannot....in all senses of that thought.

The owners of the firm have broken up their partnership but Edi Plaka, he who has always been there for us and comes immediately when we have something to fix, started his own firm some minths ago, is just great. His e-address is htechny@aol.com. His cell phone number is 646-348-0237.