Any benefit for a buyer to not use a broker?

The guy who founded FSBO magazine ended up using an agent.

Any more questions?

realdeal777: What you DO need is a terrific real estate attorney - someone who does it full time. It's worth paying a little extra for someone terrific. A basic attorney can do the job for $1,000 or so. I paid my attorney for my last transaction $2,500 - and it was worth every penny. I think you also need a terrific building inspector that you trust to do a thorough inspection of any building plus the unit you're considering after you have an accepted offer, but before a fully executed contract. That will cost about $750 - $1,000. Again, worth every penny. I wouldn't even consider buying a place without my attorney's and inspector's "thumb's up."

As to using a broker, that's up to you. I used a buyer's broker the first time I purchased a co-op/condo. It made me feel comfortable at the time. But since then (and I have bought and sold a number of NYC homes) I prefer to do it myself - I enjoy the research and open house trolling, and with the advent of so many online resources, the days of strict 'off the menu' exclusives are far less common. As to your query re: negotiating a slightly better price, the answer is yes, but not how you might think. You may not get the fee 'reduced' - but what you certainly DO get (assuming you are a well qualified and well prepared buyer) is a certain level of priority - if it's between you (the broker gets the entire 6%) or another buyer with a broker whom they have to split the commission with (again - assuming you are well qualified, first and foremost), you will certainly get priority.

Hope that helps a bit...

i see, thank you for your advice matsonjones.

@matsonjones - Can you please refer me to your terrific RE attorney?

realdeal:

1. I have been buying and selling real estate on my own for over 25 years
2. but I always work with brokers when doing so makes business sense
3. a knowledgeable, helpful and caring broker is priceless
4. experienced brokers possess a wealth of experience that can help all of us
5. the mechanics of today's market actually favor working with a good broker
6. because there are so few good listings and they dont last long now

7. on that last point see my thread earlier today captioned NYC Sales Market at a Point of Inflection
8. the title is not clear
9. the tezt of ny thread: prices could rise dramatically within a very short time
10. 10% to 20% or more: in desirable neighborhoods and buildings
11. if I am right that favirs getting a good broker ASAP

mache: This is the attorney I have all my real estate transactions with, and I trust him - implicitly. Wouldn't work with anyone else.

Richard N.Cohen
http://www.cohencolemanlaw.com/Richard.html

And I want to be clear here - I am NOT 'anti-broker.' I am only for a well informed and well represented buyer. At the minimum, you require a great attorney and great inspector. If you wish to add a great broker to your team, I think that's terrific.

All other things equal a buy side broker will cost you money if you are buying from a FSBO. The "all other things being equal" caveat is important.

Bernie: Sort of, but not really. First off, There is a very small percentage of FSBO sales compared to broker represented sales.

Accounting for that reality, many FSBO sales state a 'no buyer's broker' policy' to begin with.

So, for that small amount of sellers going the FSBO route that do allow a buyer's broker, the 'cost' (using your term) is no greater than under normal circumstances with those sellers using a seller's broker. The broker percentage paid (if applicable) will be factored in to the price one way or another at the end of the day by both sides when making/accepting an offer.

It doesn't really alter the math much, if at all.

Approaching a sale without representation may get you a "certain level of priority" sometimes but it's hardly guaranteed. In my experience, there are plenty of listing agents who take buyers more seriously when they come through a broker.

It didn't make sense to me either...

It was an advantage for us. Listing broker was motivated. She told us exactly what to do to make us more appealing as buyers. Honesty, I think she could have found another buyer willing to pay more.

Last year one corcoran listing broker in Brooklyn said he would not show me an apartment if I came with a buying broker. Unbelievable. This happened on several occasions (and I know it's illegal). So after this, I decided to just look without a buying broker. I didn't want to miss out on an apartment I liked because of the shady listing broker. It is unfortunate, but I find that some listing brokers are not looking out for the sellers best interests.

If they are not looking out for their fiduciary's best interest; do you think they are looking out for yours? I would report such a broker to REBNY, their firm and the DOS.

The advantage's of having a buyer' agent outweigh "going alone" and there are plenty of reasons why.

First, it's better to have someone representing solely your interests as a listing agent should only have the seller's interests as their priority. The reason the listing agent will be more friendly and push an unrepresented buyer deal through is because they'll receive a larger split of the commission. It's all for their profit!

Second, a buyer's agent will have more information and time to research exactly what their client is looking for. A knowledgable agent has more resources, knows why a property is priced the way it is and how to negotiate for their client.

Third, a buyer's agent is only paid through the commission set up by the listing agent. Any buyer agent who asks for a retainer up front or a commission agreement is someone who gives everyone else a bad reputation! Do not fall for these people. A buyer's agent should work at no cost to the buyer!

Fourth, a knowledgable agent will have contacts for real estate attorney's, mortgage broker's and inspectors. The right agent can be very helpful in taking care of all these details and watching the transaction through to completion.

That's my argument for working with a buyer agent but being that I work in real estate, I have a biased opinion. You should do what you feel works best for you and I wish you the best of luck.

realdeal:

1. it also depends what you are looking to buy
2. if you are looking for a new condo directly from its sponsor you
probably do not need a broker

3. if you are looking to buy in a coop, especially a larger unit in an older
coop and an area like the UWS or Park Avenue, you will miss out on a lot
by not working with an experienced broker because of their knowledge about
Board criteria and how to succeed in bidding wars

4. I also disagree with the need for an inspector
5. I have bought well over 100 NYC coops, most sight unseen, never used an
inspector, and never had reason to regret not using one

Good luck with whatever you do

@matsonjones: I agree with you that the segment I mentioned is small. But within the segment I don't follow your argument. If I am a FSBO and person A has a broker and offers me $1mm (i would get $970k) while person B has no broker and offers $985 I will proceed with person B. All others factors equal. So the buyers broker is surely costing person A money. (Now perhaps their services justify that cost....)

If you are buying a coop you will need to put together a board package (not sure about the procedure in a condo). This is a major pain you know where and a broker will assume the responsibility for it. That in itself made it worthwhile for me to work a broker when I purchased, even if I did most of the "apartment finding" leg work myself.
I do believe that Keith B (The Burkhardt Group) has a service where a buyer can hire them ala carte to do their board package. If you don't work with a broker, I strongly recommend that you do this. And Keith is awesome, he is very respected on this board--a group that rarely shows respect for anyone.

I lost out on an apartment back in 2002 because I brought a buyer's agent with me... 250 East 87th St, a gas bag in house broker steered things toward a buyer who went direct. She wasn't very subtle about it either. Given that she was about 100 years old at the time, I suspect she is watching me type this from the broker version of heaven right about now.

NativeRestless: The Board package has to be assembled by the SELLERS broker - they are the one reviewing it and handing it in. If you purchase without a buyer's broker, the seller's broker will most assuredly sit down with you and oversee all the information you proffer that is required/demanded, and organize the entire Board package with you anyway. Remember - this is after a signed contract - that seller's broker is verrrry motivated to turn in a perfect Board package so that all goes as smoothly as possible. They don't want to lose their commission at that point!

I've bought on my own on multiple occasions, and in each case where a co-op was involved, the seller's broker and I assembled the entire Board package together to make sure all was in order and looked as it should.

Seller has a broker looking out for their best interest, not yours. their purpose is to get the highest price for the seller.Why shouldn't the buyer, especially if they will receive no discount for being Unrepresented have a broker. The problem is you don't know if you are really getting a better deal going it alone if you tell the broker I expect a discount at the onset. Certainly it will be baked in. Find a broker through a referral that you are comfortable working with.

You may dislike the real estate industry, brokers,agents etc. However if you are buying in NYC you are most likely using a broker one way or the other. So find one you like and trust and work with them. If we had a system where it was a fact you save 2-3% going it alone,that would be another story. We don't. Remember the seller decides who they sell to, not their broker. We have thousands of brokers/agents in NYC, some stink, most are competent. You would not pick an attorney out of the white pages, like I said before, get a good referral.

Keith Burkhardt
The Burkhardt Group

who says a buyer's broker is looking out for the buyer's best interests? That's the big flaw isnt it? If there is no deal, the buyer's broker doesn't get paid. Yes, yes, shower me with the word 'fiduciary', and the old adage, "well a deal will close at some point, and the buyer's broker will get paid"... Well, maybe, but brokers know that a bird in hand is better than... well you know...

there is nothing you can't do yourself if you do the research, and get a good lawyer.

matsonjones: "The Board package has to be assembled by the SELLERS broker - they are the one reviewing it and handing it in."

Anybody can put together the package. I'd argue that only a fool would do it him/herself. In my purchase, my broker managed the collection, assembly, and delivery of the package to the managing agent. We gave the seller's agent the courtesy of reviewing the package, but she was not permitted to keep a copy, and it was done at my broker's office, not hers. My broker & his staff had significantly more experience in dealing w/ boards & the building than she did.

(Shortly after making the offer, we had provided basic (not all) financial information and enough supporting documentation to validate that the offer was legitimate and I would pass the board's criteria -- seller was a former board member, and seller's agent showed him the info for his opinion.)

Aaron: In all the co-op purchases I have been involved in, the seller's broker has always been responsible for the final review and vetting of the Board package for accuracy, organization, completeness, and financial worthiness before it has been turned into the managing agent. So that's just my experience.

gcondo: You ever live at 407 PAS? :)

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/9829-bring-back-the-407-park-avenue-south-thread

Find a buyer broker that will give you a rebate of their commission. You get get help navigating the market and a check at closing.

A buyer's broker is a MUST!! A good buyer's broker has relationships with many listing agents. Also, they are often aware of listings coming to the market before they are made public. I have gotten my own clients in to see properties before the general public knew they were available!!

A buyer's broker saves you money and aggravation. Below explains what a buyer's broker will do for you. Some of this takes many years of experience to understand how seller's, especially developers, structure their deals....

BUYER’S SALES AGENT or BUYER's BROKER
Benefits:
- Represents “YOU”, the Buyer.
- Research properties that meet Buyer’s criteria.
- Coordinate appointments with Seller’s Agent and escorts Buyer to view properties.
- Must keep all information about the Buyer confidential.
- Must account to Buyer for any money or documents entrusted to them.
- Must tell Buyer everything they can find out about the Seller.
- Must tell Buyer everything they can find out about the property; including negative features.
- Must obey all lawful instruction of the Buyer.
- Utilize extensive network of Seller’ Agents and Developers to find properties coming to the
marketplace.
- Run property comparables.
- Submit and negotiate offers.
- Prepare condo and coop board packages.
- Interface with Buyer’s Attorney, Seller’s Agent and Management Company.
- Escort Buyer to Closing.

Thank goodness for the "escort buyer to closing" service.

13 FSBO listings on streeteasy. 5700 broker represented.

streeteasy doesn't even have a search function specific to fsbo listings.

what gives?