who pays for bed bugs?

Are you the tenant?

Owner. All laws against us.

However, get the apartment tested first. 4/5ths of the bedbug complaints we get are from people who read a news story and freak out and test negative.

actually if owners can prove the tenant is responsible then the tenant can be on the hook - but generally the onus falls on the owner - realize though that owners are NOT required to hire a licensed guy - they are required to get rid of the problem - 90% of my bed bug problems are cured with $150 worth of bedlam bed bug spray applied over two treatments that are 3 weeks apart (sometimes we use dforce hpx for one of the treatments.)

anyone know a cheap yet effective bedbug guy? how much for a small 1br? yelp is of no help, fake reviews it seems, thanks.

"actually if owners can prove the tenant is responsible"

Ha! Good luck with that. Once the city's website lists your building as having bed bugs, game over.

any help for the landlord if he can show no complaints in the first 2.5 years of lease, thus bedbugs ever existed prior?

OP - just do it yourself - it's not rocket science. I don't think there is such thing as a cheap bed bug guy. $600 minimum and he'll put down $65/worth of spray. So just buy the spray - then spray about 6 cans of the stuff along the baseboards, along the feet of your bed, if you have wood furniture spray around it etc. Then leave your apartment for 4 plus hours so you don't inhale the fumes.

Wash your closes/linens - keep them in garbage bags for three weeks or so - don't throw any furniture away at first -

check the corners of your mattress - if there are black specks on the corners that is a sign that you have them - the more black specks the worse your problem.

They have never been proven to carry a disease - so they are less dangerous than mosquitoes. They are annoying for sure though.

Then 3 weeks later - repeat -

Why not try it by yourself first?

thanks jazz.. where do i buy this spray.. i would be doing this for the tenant, so i dont know how well he'd be happy watching me putting his briefs in ziploc bags but who knows if hes into that.,

LOL -

Just google it and have it shipped - or Broadway sells it - there website has some decent reading on the subject - http://www.broadwaypestcontrol.com

Our bedbug problem in the City would be significantly better if everyone realized that for $100 they could treat their apartment (no time off work, most often no furniture thrown away etc.) As long as they treat it right away, it's generally a pretty simple fix. It's sad to hear stories of people spending $10k to get rid of a couple of bugs that are harmless.

PS - my tenants who complain and demand a pro I just tell them they can have a pro if they pay for it themselves. Then I offer to treat a couple of times on my dime and then tell them that if after a couple of tries there is still a problem that we can discuss splitting the cost of a pro.
Remind them it's the spray that kills the bugs - so get the spray down and do it soon.

Landlords/owners are required to provide a "comfortable, safe, and sanitary" living environment, as denoted as part of the warranty of habitability dictated by New York City. See here for more information:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/unccp/html/legal/faq.shtml

Additionally, such conditions, which include things like the handling of vermin and the removal of trash, are denoted in the New York State Real Property Law, see Section 235-b.

Like to have them installed in an apartment?

"Then I offer to treat a couple of times on my dime"

Jazz, doesn't treating them yourself (spraying) mean having the tenant not use the apartment for several days? I'm reading conflicting reports saying these sprays are safe so no need to leave and others saying leave a couple days for precaution, thanks. Also if it indeed is the LL's responsibility, why would a tenant agree to split costs? I will try to go 50/50 with them considering there were no instances of bed bugs the first 2.5 years, thanks again.

Sonya_D, what's more - BEDBUGS SPREAD from one apartment to the next when not properly treated! It idiotic to tell someone "go buy some cans of poison! Good luck!" A LL is very likely to end up with an entire bldg infested using that approach - and the same website you linked to actually lets potential renters look up specific buildings to see if they have bed bugs. And there are all sorts of other sites that list such buildings.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/home/home.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_bug_control_techniques

Its SUICIDE for a LL to not get the problem fixed professionally.

"Who pays for bedbugs?"

I thought they came free.

ss400k - the sprays I use are safe and legal for people without special licenses to buy and apply. They should leave the apartment for 4 hours - no more is needed. Much of the info out there is planted by exterminators - it's really sad. I would guess that we've treated somewhere between 30 to 40 apartments with these sprays.

FYI - I had bedbugs in my own apartment. These are the sprays that got rid of them.

1. landlords are required to eradicate bedbugs regardless of who caused them because
Real Property Law section 235(f) encodes a warranty of habitability that compels
landlords to provide tenants with safe housing accommodations

2. Multiple Dwelling Law section 78(a) separately requires landlords to cure any known
condition in a residential dwelling unit that could affect the health or safety of a
tenant or other resident of a dwelling unit

3. and both of NYC's appellate courts have held that the failure of a landlord to cure a
bedbug infestation constitutes constructive eviction that entitles the tenant to treat
his or her lease as terminated, without penalty

4. Manhattan's appeal court tuled that way in 1913 in a case called Bonvit v. ----

"Its SUICIDE for a LL to not get the problem fixed professionally."

What is so difficult to understand about bed bug removal? I guarantee that if you gave all "pros" a test, that I would score better than half of them. There is no need to pay some guy $1,000+ to come spray an apartment.

You do a great disservice to us all by saying the ridiculously expensive solution is the only solution. Because so many think that bedbugs are a $5,000 problem they do nothing. They just put up with the inconvenience and then move out leaving the problem behind. Instead, if they knew there was a $50 solution, tenants would call me at the first sign and the problem would never become a big deal.

We had an elderly tenant pass away. His apartment was infested with the bugs. It's the only real infestation I've seen. Most of my tenants have very mild/new cases of bugs (because they're the ones who brought the bugs in my building). In that case we exterminated his apartment and every apartment around his. His neighbors never complained.

These bugs are very treatable. These sprays work. These sprays are cheap. We just need to get them out of the cans and onto the floors and into the cracks.

Jazzman, thanks so much for your insight.. is there a particular spray that you use.. there are so many chemical/solution types out there - I'd prefer the 4 hour (or less solution) so that if I spray in the morning, my tenant can come home at 6PM.. Is there a link on the product? I do not want to have them (and their 2 cats) up and move to a hotel for a couple days..yes, I read a lot online and some of the fear tactics do seem to stem from bedbug companies willing to charge quite a bit for their time..

ss400k - read my previous posts

"These bugs are very treatable. These sprays work. These sprays are cheap. We just need to get them out of the cans and onto the floors and into the cracks."

The issue is - and their is ample SCIENTIFIC evidence of this, not just hearsay from exterminators - BBs flee the one apartment being sprayed and move to other places in the building. Fact.

Now we know how Jason got from 10006 to Upper Carnegie Hill.

i have always been terrified of bedbugs (never had an experience myself) but i just have to say that reading jazzman's postings here have made me feel exponentially better and more chill/less paranoid.

The local word for "bedbug" was a term of endearment (similar to "rugrat") for little people within certain eastern/central European communities. Isn't that cuuute!

I have experience and you in fact SHOULD BE PARANOID. Jazzman is feeding you BS. Just Google the term. if you stick to JUST reputable news sites or Science Daily, etc, you will see its not nearly so easy as he says.

You need to heat EVERYTHING you own, even books and pillows - EVERYTHING. For like 45 minutes each at over 130 degrees. That means going on amazon and buying a bed bug heater. And wrapping or storing everything heated in an air-tight container. Then spraying everything. Its a long, nightmare process that is not as simple as just spraying some mist in a corner. Bed bugs hide EVERYWHERE in your apt so unless you plan to soak EVERYTHING in pesticides, you need to stop listening to jazzman NOW and go read up on it from a reputable source.

Fortunately I've never had experience with bedbugs, knock on wood, but Jazzman has a general point about exterminators which is worth considering.

You can hire an exterminator for anything.....let's say cockroaches, or carpenter ants, or mice. The cost of the actual chemicals (or traps) is very small. What you're paying for is for somebody to do it, when most of us would rather not deal with something so yucky. That's precisely how (and why) they make their money.

We have successfully (and cheaply) dealt with all these things (except bedbugs) at one of our abodes over time, and have saved hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars.

Again, I have no experience with bedbugs, but I can't imagine that it's a higher degree of rocket science than getting rid of any other pesky vermin.

My point, lucy, is that bed bugs hide EVERYWHERE - literally every square foot of your arpartment, including in kitchen cabinets and INSIDE book jackets and in pillows and in the carpet and in the drapes and under your TV. So unlike the vermin you mention, you need to de-bed-bug EVERYTHING YOU OWN. 100% of your clothes. your shower curtian. ALL your personal items. ALL OF THEM. They are NOT the same. Spraying in the corners will kill the ones in the corners, not the ones in your underwear drawer or under your cereal box.

EVERYWHERE.

Trust me.

Why are we arguing?
Why not just do both?
If you have enough money for an exterminator, you probably also have money to buy some chemicals yourself as well. If you have the time and can spare the effort to do it yourself, you probably have the time to make a phone call and set up an appointment. (And if you have just one or the other, well, your choice is really already made up for you).

But anyway, regardless of your views on how pervasive bedbugs are (I happen to know that they are extremely difficult to get rid of), it is DEFINITELY the landlord's or owner's responsibility to remove an excessive presence of them, as per my earlier post.

I think ss400 is an individual unit owner. I'm on his side on this. Either it is a building issue in which case the building should have ultimate responsibility, or it is an issue with the tenant now 2.5 years into the lease. Tenant should pay, have security deposit in jeopardy, and/or face eviction action for not keeping the place sanitary and free of vermin.

Is there a specific area/link in the HPD website that lists buildings with a history of bed bugs ? Is it the link on te right side - "Complains, Violtions..". Will that list complaints about BB's

Love it.

Big-shot RE "investor" ss400k pissing away a day searching the Internets about bedbugs, trying to weasel his way out of it by blaming the tenant. Gonna waste another day looking for poison, putting on a hazmat suit, and playing exterminator. All because he values his time less than the few hundred more it'd take to pay some middle-class professional to do it right.

>some middle-class professional

Scorn much?

You have Jazzman & ss400k here calling the whole of the bed bug extermination industry a sham, but somehow you find scorn in me calling them "middle-class professionals"?

Err, OK. Carry on. Yes, the tenants should be responsible. Clearly after 2.5 years, they brought it in because bed bugs sprout from out of your ass.

What was the need to call them "some middle-class professional"? Middle class not good enough for you? Not at inonada's standard?

As for bedbugs' origin, they don't appear spontaneously. Either they are making their way through the building, or they originated from the tenant's activities. Your stupid sarcasm, on top of your scorn against the middle class, doesn't change the actual possible origins.

Context, dummy.

Big-shot investor, balking at paying middle-income professional, makes more sense to him to spend his own time to do a slop-job himself.

Jason is right.

It can be the preparation rather than the extermination that costs. Especially when the tenant hoards. Here's a current case where the co-op shareholder (famous for other reasons) refused to clean: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=9TnMLbrWumRjvKBsG7EbhQ==&system=prod

The good stuff and photos are toward the end.

Another one, where the prep work alone ran to more than $14,000: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=llXHO80ZT6G/SHfqIIKMbQ==&system=prod

>Big-shot investor,

Thought you were the big shot investor.

The example that NWT is of the most extreme -- in those cases, hoarders and the like, yes, the LL/owner should bring a case, and, in instances such as these, should win.

However, for MOST of us living in NYC, for those of us who keep our apartments moderately tidy, things like bedbugs and cockroaches are here whether we like it or not, and it is the landlord's responsibility, by law, to keep things clean and vermin-free. When an extreme case like the above comes up, they have every right to charge the tenant appropriately.

Bedbugs are very different from cockroaches and mice.

They themselves are, of course. In the eyes of the law, however, not so much.

"Is there a specific area/link in the HPD website that lists buildings with a history of bed bugs"

Just type in the exact address in the search bar and it shows you the history of complaints. Older ones you have to request now, I think.

The HPD site may not be much use, aside from its bad design: http://167.153.4.70/hpdonline/provide_address.aspx

I tried four addresses with a known multiple-apartment bed-bug history, and all came up with zilch. When nobody complains, there's no record.

First bedbugs and now HPD?

Apparently guys with cats can be the source of bedbugs: http://www.catforum.com/forum/38-health-nutrition/147256-bed-bug-removal.html

Maybe catboy has a bedbug-eating feline in his arsenal of cats.