Extreme Noise From Upstairs Apartment

You could a) shoot them, or b) check with the landlord if their lease requires them to carpet their unit, which it probably does.

Certainly the landlord would be happy to evict them as nuisance tenants if they don't carpet & continue to make make noise, because they're stabilized. Otherwise, you could move out and claim constructive eviction and demand damages, but you would need to get an attorney to do that.

Handling the matter yourself is generally not a good idea. They may shoot first.

Problem here! Don't own a gun.

>You could a) shoot them

That is not how Stand your Ground works

>These people as I believe, are rent stabilized tenants.

Only thing you can do is when it is really loud, preferably if you hear someone or something falling, call 911.

>b) check with the landlord if their lease requires them to carpet their unit, which it probably does.

Nope, carpeting is not going to be in their lease.

>Certainly the landlord would be happy to evict them as nuisance tenants if they don't carpet & continue to make make noise, because they're stabilized.

Probably not. Landlord has no interest in trying an eviction based on noise. This is NYC. We have noise. No judge is going to evict a tenant, especially at grandparent age, because of footsteps, and since the landlord knows this, the landlord isn't going to try.

>Otherwise, you could move out and claim constructive eviction and demand damages, but you would need to get an attorney to do that.

Sure, if you can find an attorney to take such a ridiculous case. Meanwhile the landlord is going after you for the unpaid rent and all the implications of that.

Stevejhx, aren't you better leaving NYC advice to the real NYers?

First try to speak to them in a conciliatory way. For example, when I moved into one apartment, my upstairs neighbor started playing music and jumping around just as we were ready to go to bed. My husband and I both had to be leave for work at 6:30 in the morning. I went up and explained my unusual hours and need to get to bed early. She was very nice about it and did her dancing early in the morning after we left for work. (Although I must admit, seeing this lady in tights and a tutu brought to mind the hippos in the Disney cartoon Fantasia. It was no wonder that my ceiling fixtures were shaking.) It doesn't always work out, but you may get lucky and find they're reasonable. If not, document, get witnesses, and call management repeatedly.

The reason I even mentioned that the tenants are rent stabilized is because they know what their rights are. As a tenant paying market rent, I really did not want to ruffle any feathers, and management here is unapproachable.
I just in my mind cannnot understand how people can be so inconsiderate of others. They move their furniture constantly, (or should I say drag it) and it makes this vibrating screetching sound that is so disturbing. I just don't want to be blacklisted as a complainer. My building is good when it comes to that, and being a market rate tenant, in a building where tenants flaunt their entitlement to do anything being that they are rent stabilized, I am hesitant to do so.

then don't

I know all to well what you mean - my shoes have ALWAYS come off as soon as I get in the front door, as well as never moving furniture or whatever else during nighttime hours. No noise - & the rugs & floors stay clean.

As for being blacklisted as a complainer - I can relate to that too, but in consideration of the GROSS INCONSIDERATION of you wonderful upstairs neighbors - to HELL with worrying about that: You have EVERY RIGHT to complain - ESPECIALLY as a market rate tenant! Meanwhile, the stabilized tenants, obnoxiously flaunting their entitlement while kvetching & whining at the drop of a hat is OK?!? Please...I know the type very well, & am very glad to have moved away from them. Ugh.

Management is unapproachable? Too bad they've forgotten what they're there for. It's high time to remind them - & YOU'RE going to be the one to do it.

I'm sure you can approach them in a non confrontational civil manner - in a way they're probably not accustomed to, given what you've said about the "Fabulous Flaunters". They just might listen. JUST DO IT ALREADY!!!

Good Luck.

How do you know? Have you talked to them about it? RS tenants have the same 80% carpeting rules as everyone else. If someone feels like being an asshole in retaliation to your complaints they can wreck havoc in the remaining 20% area, RS or no

Complaining about their moving furniture (your dining room chairs may make equally obnoxious sounds when pushed back for all you know) during regular hours is a bit much. Be grateful you don't live next to an opera singer (I did once). For the rest, you can try asking nicely. I think you have a bit of an attitude. "Flaunt their entitlement." How do you know? Do they wear RS nametags? Non-RS tenants can be just as rude, think a frat-like share living overhead (I had that once also). Maybe you're not cut out for apartment dwelling.

"but they must know and not care about disturbing us"

... the first step is to have their ears removed from your apartment.

walpurgis, I'm pretty sure we wrote essentially the same post, but I'm rather fond of your version. although the caps might be overplay.

Thanks, AR.

Sorry... I may have lapsed into channeling Tony Robbins - but in all seriousness, sometimes you just have to SPEAK UP (uh-oh...there go those caps again;)

My blood pressure must've shot up to 975/650 & saw red when I read JR's last sentence, hence the "caps rage".

Who am I to talk? I frequently resort to telling a few certain people to fuck off, which somehow almost always seems appropriate (to me) although may be a similar reaction, just based on longer exposure.

I had the same reaction. Seriously. I lived among the RS and the non-RS, and both have had their winners and losers.

Understood - but no one - especially someone paying market rate rent - should simply be a doormat.

There must be a thread on streeteasy about carpeting in apartments. I'm sure if I used the search box for carpeting, I'd find some relevant wisdom.

@ Just-wrong .. Blast this for them meanwhile you go to work or vacation. http://youtu.be/thIVtEOtlWM

You have a number of remedies. First of all you can ask them. Believe it or not a lot of people are completely oblivious to just how noisy they are. Might make sense to ask them to come down and give a listen while you have someone jump around upstairs so they can see what a bunch of noisy annoying people they are. Second of all you can ask the landlord, however landlords in NY tend to blow this stuff off unless someone is blowing off firecrackers in the building. There are often carpet rules in certain buildings and this can help but will not eliminate it by any means. Finally you can sue them. NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY. There are a LOT of people on here who will argue with me and say that you cannot sue them or that you do not have case. They are utterly, completely wrong. Plenty of attorneys will take a case like this. The position is called "constructive eviction" My company filed such a case with a landlord and won, solidly in 2001. You can sue both the landlord OR the tenant above for this. There are other ways to do sue as well. NOTE -- you need to consult a litigator, not a family attorney and CERTAINLY not an attorney who specializes in closings. Attorney's who deal with leases and closings are generally risk averse, and tend to not want to see litigation as way to resolve such things. Madonna was sued by her downstairs neighbor for $25,000 for playing her music and dancing. The reality for you is NOT what a judge will say because this will likely not get to a court room and if it did, you could have a strong case. No one in the world wants to be sued and having the sheriff knock on your door and say "you've been served!" is going to make anyone completely miserable. So you should ask them first verbally, then in writing, then again in writing, then with a reference to taking legal action. Then file the case. I assure you that the moment the case is filed you will get your resolution. They are hardly going to spend the thousands it would cost them to defend themselves rather than just change their lives. Finally, find a cheap attorney to file the case. All you need to do is file. You don't need to worry about going to court. And one more thing, you can also move or get soundproofing. Both are terrific options.

Here is a case summary I found online:

A case in which the tenant was granted constructive eviction was the case of Bocchini vs. Gorn Management Company. Carol Bocchini rented an apartment from the Gorn Management Company. Bocchini complained to the management company that her upstairs neighbor was causing excessive noise. The neighbor did not have carpeting in the her apartment so Bocchini claimed she could hear every footstep. She also complained that she could hear an alarm clock, television, radio and other various noises from the apartment. The management company refused to take any action.

Ms. Bocchini vacated the apartment and argued that all leases contain the implied covenant of quiet enjoyment. Her lease also included special covenants that contained a restriction against excessive noise or other offensive conducts.

The court ruled that the management company did have a right to control the actions of the upstairs tenants. The court stated that these facts constituted a breach of the covenant of quiet enjoyment and supported the tenant's claim that she had been constructively evicted.

Catboy, just_right is a transient. Plain and simple. It wouldn't be worth tree-fiddy for him to sue.

In the world of the real:
If he chose to move into too small an apartment for his wants, he can make his next apartment a larger one. If the ceilings are too high, he can choose a next place to live that has cozier ceilings. If the apartment's ugly, he can find a prettier one next time. If there's too much street noise, he can move to a place on a quiet street with no through traffic.

And if he chooses in this case to move to a ranch house in a nice quiet suburban area in Ohio, he will find 100% true inner peace and happiness without any downside.

Exactly.

Bocchini vs. Gorn is a Maryland case. You wouldn't get far citing it when you break your lease and end up in NY Housing Court. The standard here for constructive eviction ("too bad to live with") is much higher. It's more like massive flooding, no heat, swarms of rats, etc.

Just live through your lease and then move. In the meantime, if it makes you feel better, go ahead and complain to the landlord that your neighbor's noise is annoying.

"First of all you can ask them. Believe it or not a lot of people are completely oblivious to just how noisy they are. Might make sense to ask them to come down and give a listen while you have someone jump around upstairs so they can see what a bunch of noisy annoying people they are."

THIS.

Acoustics are funny. And each building is different. While one unit can be quiet as a tomb, the unit next door is plagued by upstairs noise that's amplified by the wood floors.

When I first moved into my current abode, the next-door neighbor would "blast" her music on the other side of my bedroom wall. Worse, the music sounded distorted, like a radio station that was never tuned in quite right.

I rang her doorbell, and she invited me in. Once inside her apartment, I could hear the music was not only not blasting, it was at an audibly comfortable level -- even low enough to be *background* music. I asked her to come with me into my apartment, saying I wanted to show her something. Without telling her what it was, I led her through the apartment into my bedroom, where the music that sounded so muted and lovely in her apartment sounded ear-shatteringly shrill in my bedroom. She was shocked.

Turns out, her mistake was placing her speakers flush against the wall. The wall then became an extension of the speaker. Plaster, incidentally, is a horrible sound conductor.

We went back into her apartment and moved the speakers two inches away from the wall. We even cranked the music up before running back into my bedroom to check the difference. *SILENCE*!

You can, therefore, solve these disputes amicably.

And if you can't, there's always the gun option.

>No one in the world wants to be sued and having the sheriff knock on your door and say "you've been served!" is going to make anyone completely miserable.

Personally I would look for the hidden camera and the prize team, because this is not how process is served in NY.

>Finally, find a cheap attorney to file the case.

A defendant can smell a cheap attorney from a distance. And cheap attorneys are never to be scared of. Usually even their letters or filings contain spelling errors, let alone factual errors and improper interpretations of law.

>Bocchini vs. Gorn is a Maryland case.

Oops, or those cheap attorneys will be citing irrelevant case law.

Thank you for your responses. Just one note, I do not whatsoever have any bias toward rent stabilized tenants. In the building I live in, I know as a market rent tenant I have no backing from the City whatsoever, no rights at all. The tenants in my building who are rent stabilized tenants, flaunt it whenever possible. They violate the buildings rules, and flaunt it as well. They get a dog without prior permission from management and don't register the pet. Then they have a audacity to get a second dog and do the same thing. I on the other hand, have my dog listed on the rental agreement, who passed on shortly after I moved in this building. I did not think twice of notifying managment of the dogs passing, and several months later decided to get another dog from the same breeder. I contacted management prior to picking up the puppy, and they were adament due to the fact that this rent stabilized tenant defied the rules of management, that I was not allowed another pet. These people still have their 2 dogs, who piss and shit in the lobby, as well as right outside the building entrance without cleaning up. Mind you, they are required to take the service elevator as well as the service entrance, but never do.
Me on the other hand, NOT allowed a dog even though he is on my lease, because of my proper ethics. Would you not question why someone like them can get away withwhat is the obvious, as well as what is not? I know for a fact it's because they are rent stabilized. There are many rent stabilized tenants in my building and they are always the tenants that have a fierce argrument with managment because they know they have protection from the city, and feel entitled not to abide by the rules of management.
BTW, alanhart, I have what I consider a large apartment, over 1100 sq/ft. And aboutready, you might be correct about not being cut out for apartment living. Thanks All!

Wow, that's quite the diatribe from someone not biased against RS neighbors.

Your problem when searching for your next rental, will be in finding a building without any RS tenants.

Or rather, RS tenants paying less than you, since a big chunk of the RS stock consists of apartments where the RS rent is higher than market. You might be RS yourself, and not even know it.

Take 101 WEA, for instance. The rents look market rate, yet all 504 apartments are RS, in return for a 421a exemption that lets the owner pay $139,000 in RE taxes instead of $7,000,000.

>These people still have their 2 dogs, who piss and shit in the lobby, as well as right outside the building entrance without cleaning up.

Same people who have the grand kids?

Btw, what neighborhood is this in?

Please don't listen to these people and consult an attorney. They are all completely wrong.

Yes, do what Catboy says, hire a bad attorney.

Oops, sorry, he said hire a cheap attorney.

We won a constructive eviction case, but it wasn't due to noise, which is extremely difficult, the " quiet enjoyment" phrase notwithstanding. During regular hours people are allowed to do almost anything in most apartments. Drum lessons? Sure. Babies howling, dogs barking, etc. All allowed. And many allowed after hours (muzzling the colicky baby just not acceptable). Guywithcat, you are not completely wrong, but you are not correct either.

So hiring a lawyer would be a good idea?

We were sued. After vacating with a constructive eviction notice, and moving to the west coast. We worked at law firms. Attorneys thought the case was bogus and more fun than their regular work so we didn't have to hire anyone. They filed an answer and counterclaims for all paid rent. Landlord dropped case.

Don't waste your time with contacting anyone. I went through the same situation [and still living here]. Management and landlord will not enforce the carpet clause or any noise clauses on the lease. Contacting the people upstairs opens up the doors for them to contact management and argue you are harassing them. It becomes a game of he said she said.

Right now, I am just dealing with it because of the AC noise and loud tv or music noise [no I am not disturbing anyone I spoke to my neighbors to make sure]...However, I was just told by management that the people upstairs had just resigned a 2 year lease and I was free to break my lease and leave [giving them the required 60 dyas notice. I might just wait til the end of my lease and get out of here]. They know the apartment will rent in just a few weeks. It is very rare that you will find someone considerate that can understand these issues. Good luck

http://www.amazon.com/Moldex-6645-Sparkplug-Earplugs-PlugStation/dp/B001B5NOBU/ref=sr_1_19?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1379293184&sr=1-19&keywords=earplugs

justmeinNY - thank you. I rest my case!

I've been using the rectal version for years, & I must attest they work great: My behind hasn't heard anything since inserted my very 1st one!

A few "got lost" internally, unfortunately, & have been jiggling around when I walk; a not totally unpleasurable sensation, however, which I'vze gotten used to over time.

I passed on the suggestion to retrieve them with a fish hook, though...

You're welcome. I forgot to mention I even had notes, text messages and emails from the upstairs neighbor confirming it was their noise, that they had absolutely no carpeting to cover their floors, etc, which I then shared with management. Even then, they said they couldn't do anything about it. They told me to file noise complaints with the police department via their 311 website [only if the police came and find let's say some sort of illegal activity as indicated by the management, they would be able to take action]. 7 or 8 reports I filed got rejected by the police. I am sure they laughed about it [which I usually filed at 2 or 3 AM when the noise was taking place]. Good luck to you

You have confirming text messages from the furniture moving noisy grandparents who also let their dog crap in the building. I'm having a tough time putting together a profile on these ppl

Uh oh, yucky has added the word douche to the OP's name. Does that mean that the OP is in a category lower than that of Michael Vick but the same as the elementary school teachers that he despises? http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/13786-michael-vick-is-back-concurrent-with-the-increase-in-the-market

I had a similar situation with an upstairs neighbor. I spoke to her very nicely a couple of times about her early morning noise and when that didn't work I began documenting the noise and sending e-mails to management with the details. They stated that they reached out to her, but there was no change in her behavior. I continued to document and e-mail management until I had enough ammo (about a month later) to ask to be let out of my lease (I had no interest in litigation). Management agreed (in hopes of being able to increase the rent for the next tenant, I believe)and also returned my deposit. Sometimes it's just better to move on - and look for top floor apartments. Good luck to you.

strange

The reason that people have hidden comments, is because they are angry little people who have no purpose in life but to put down others. Really pathetic. The comment by "yikes" is really perverted as he is. Streeteasy's talk is for people seeking and giving advice to others rather than perverts looking at it as a forum to vent their frustrations.

unfortunately there is not much your landlord can do here. the courts have made is nearly impossible to get an eviction for anything let alone a little noise. courts now require noise meters be installed and monitored by a third party - this process costs thousands and thousands of dollars. And even after you get the readings this is a curable offense - so all the noise makers need to do is stop long enough to get the case dismissed and then they can start the noise all over again.
The courts totally eliminate any power we landlords have.

You love the charm of a pre-war building, now you are stuck with the charm of the pre-war materials.

Welcome to Manhattan co-ops.

>You love the charm of a pre-war building, now you are stuck with the charm of the pre-war materials.

And pre-war tenants.

often the complainer is the problem--especially when the facts are dubious and the tone is ranty.

clearly that is the case with our OP here!

I agree with yicky's assessment.

If you are referring to me, you are delerious. What about bloggers like you, definitely a psych assessment is in store.
As for me, I should have ignored your comment (that is why it's blackened out). My mistake!

And, to boot this talk session with Streeteasy is all BS, due to idiots like you, and your cohorts.

What a lot of noise.

like i said.

why don't you dispassionately approach those damned grandparents and suggest they put their superhuman furniture-moving capabilities to good use? You should suggest they start a moving company. You could be an early-stage investor, even--given that only you know of their unique powers.

didn't aaron have a problem with a noisy upstairs neighbor?

they're rent stabilized?

You're F-Cked.

Time to move out