Help. Emergency

My understanding is that they were not trying to stay. They are trying to move back in. They have already moved out.Right?

if they are out, change the locks.

you can't SQUAT if you can't get in.

plain and simple. have your friend move in, WITH A LEASE. now they can't squat as there's someone there and they have vacated the premises.

ab_11218 was probably just joking about bringing in another friend with a lease. you can reoccupy the space yourself. You must have witness, right? Like the front desk people saw them moved out. Was the storage place opened under your former friend and tenant's name? Another proof that they have already moved out.

actually, glamma stated that he/she is suppose to have a friend move in on 1st. so why not have the friend move with a lease?

are you owner or renter to this place. If renter, rather hard to impose squatters rights on you. But if renter, hard to imagine you have this level of authority to let in other renters.

Change the locks ASAP. They now have to obtain a court order to move in. That gives you time to mount a defense.

Don't delete a single email or text.

While you're at it, go down to your local precinct and see what they have to say.

WHOA! Don't just change locks. My friend had a lease and allowed a roommate to stay with him. He hated the roommate and after 6 months he changed the locks. The roommate brought the police who said they could arrest my friend because after 30 days, you become a tenant, of sorts. This needs legal advice.

The difference is that her roommate has moved out. Get yourself a lawyer, go to your local precinct.

Well they are paying you no? So you have a contract of some sort. If the terms have changed , you need to change the locks and call police. What is this squatter law you speak of? Someone post the actual legislation please.

I need the best real estate lawyers you guys got. Bring it on

The best advice is get a lawyer.

I need more information:

Did you have a rental agreement with the roommate?
Is the roommate under the lease to your LL with you?
Is the GF on any of these "agreements"?
Do you want to live in this apartment after your lease?

Please note there is no "Self Help" in NY and a "squatter" is someone who enters the property without permission and without the payment of rent. This roommate and his GF are not squatters. The GF may be a "GUEST" and I am waiting for your answer above for the definition of the roommate.

Change Locks PRONTO!!!
Squatter's Law my ass.
Let's see Prego and the Chihuahuas try and lawyer their way back in.
Maybe their is some unknown house guest law that might gain them reentry to your abode but it's going to be a long time from now. Call the police? There is no lease, they have no legal connection to your apartment. Mail and a few cancelled checks gain you very few rights.
Why are you still reading?
CALL THE LOCK SMITH or you will be sorry.

If there's no paper trail or electronic trail of her declaring that she's staying, I'd change the locks and play dumb if anyone comes asking about it. My story would be, "What? I don't know anything about that. She and her boyfriend moved out--I was told they got their own place. And I always change the locks between roommates for safety." etc. etc.

Also, if you want to go the legal route, you have to serve her papers with thirty days advance notice to move. I had a friend who went through that. But since you're grifters have vacated, I'd skip it and change the locks.

your, not you're

What are some of the smells that really irritate pregnant women?
What about sudden loud noises, especially in the middle of the night, how are they for health?
What would they think if your toilet stopped working and there was only cold water for the shower?
What if you rented a big dog, how do you think that gf would think the chihuahuas feel?
I say, welcome them back, after all, they can just enter, since the lock is broken after the key got stuck. That might not be safe, but hey, forget changing the locks, forget the police, don't spend the money on a lawyer, don't worry about the technicalities ... just have fun, this is New York City, you never know what can happen ... neither do they.

Unbelievable

What if the prime tenant I rent from evicts me, changes the locks, prevents me from entering, or moves out my belongings - or threatens to do so?

If you are a roommate, you are protected against illegal evictions just like everyone else in New York City. The laws regarding evictions apply if:·         you have lived in the apartment for at least 30 days (whether or not you have ever paid rent), or·         you have a valid lease (including a roommate agreement) signed by both parties, or·         the prime tenant of the apartment accepted rent from you. (Note: you must be able to prove that you paid the rent. Receipts are better than nothing, but cash payments can pose problems. The best proof of payment is a canceled check or receipt from a money order, which can be traced if necessary.)If any of the above apply to you, the prime tenant of the apartment must start an eviction case against you in court to legally remove you from the apartment. You must be served court papers, and you have a right to appear in court and present defenses. If a warrant of eviction is ordered by a judge in the case, the eviction must be carried out by a marshal or sherriff. It is illegal for anyone else - including the prime tenant of the apartment - to:·         remove you or your belonging from the apartment, or·         prevent you from entering the apartment or your room, or·         change the locks to the apartment entrance or to your room without giving you the new key, or·         cut off essential services that you do not control - like hot water, heat, or electricity

I'm pretty sure "squatters" rights were established by people who inhabited empty buildings, not those who are accommodated without written contract as friends. I don't think there is any such right, particularly if they were paying anything. That's taking advantage of someone's generosity. Agree with 10023, get thee to the precinct immediately, document everything you can, tell them you feel compelled to change the locks, and tell them you'll be calling if they come back. Tell the interlopers that you'll call the police for trespassing if they return, and you'll file for a restraining order if they don't leave you the fuck alone.

You own the apartment. They are not your roommates, at least the way I read the intent of this section. And they ALREADY moved out.

Plus, to be a cynical bitch, are they going to find and hire an attorney? And if so will that attorney continue to represent them once these facts are revealed?

I called the police immediately first thing I did and they told me I have to take it to civil court but if I change the locks or do anything to make the place inhospitable I would be arrested.

Lawyer. Only.

Any further speculation on this thread is a waste of time. This is starting to sound like "Yahoo Answers" or whatever it's called.

If anyone has a good landlord lawyer, please post it for glamma.

And I do mean an experienced specialist in that area.

Arrested?? Oh my goodness. You're really in a tough spot.

I really hope, for your sake, they decide to leave of their own accord. It's just unimaginable to me that you've helped these people and they're doing this to you. Does the fact that they moved out their own belongings help you in any way? Did you tell the person you spoke to that they had officially vacated?

The girl I know who went through this had a somewhat similar situation. Her roommate wasn't on the lease and she did her a favor by letting her stay with her. This person had countless personal problems and lost her job (which led to her working as a prostitute and bringing "clients" to the apartment they shared) and she dug her heels in and refused to leave. My friend finally had her legally served with papers to give her 30 days notice and she gave up and left. I suppose she could have fought it, but she had far too many other issues to be clear headed enough to get an attorney, etc. Maybe the couple you're dealing with are similarly incapable of fighting this. But definitely get them served as soon as humanly possible.

Glamma,

I really have nothing to add although I strongly echo Alan's advice. But it sounds like a really f'ed up situation and you have my thoughts and support for what they are worth. Nothing like trying to do the right thing for someone and getting screwed over by it. Hopefully not only will they decide to stay where they are, but karma WILL catch up with them some day. I just feel sorry for the dogs having to live with such ill hearted humans.

http://www.braverlaw.net/Module/Attorney/Attorney/Robert_J._Braverman?id=2

Call Braverman. Not cheap but will tell you exactly what to do fast. Probably bill you for an hour which will be $500.

> at least the way I read the intent of this section.

Intent of the section?

>Plus, to be a cynical bitch, are they going to find and hire an attorney? And if so will that attorney continue to represent them once these facts are revealed?

Generally I agree with your statement and attitude here, but on the other hand you have people like Gloria Allred. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Biker-Run-Over-SUV-Dispute-Hires-Gloria-Allred-226259711.html

>Call Braverman. Not cheap but will tell you exactly what to do fast. Probably bill you for an hour which will be $500.

Just throw money at the problem. Why not, right?

glamma
about 2 hours ago
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I called the police immediately first thing I did and they told me I have to take it to civil court but if I change the locks or do anything to make the place inhospitable I would be arrested.

If you ask the wrong questions, you get the wrong answers.

Deal with the people and the situation will resolve itself. Fieldschester was on to something- these are vulnerable people, take advantage of their vulnerability, don't be taken advantage of and make yourself more vulnerable.

by the way, what neighborhood is this in, and what is the building situation - doorman / security, etc., plus number of people listed on the lease.

You cannot change your lock if they are still your tenant, but they have already MOVED OUT. The problem is that they are facing some difficulties in securing the new apartment and want to return. Why would you have the obligation to let them return. They have already agreed to and did move their belonging to a temporary storage. That is it. I don't know how you explain to the police. Did you tell the police that they have never agreed to move out, ever?

Yes, I bet the police advice did not have the assumption that they already vacated.

Glamma: I am in the process of getting recs for you.

I just emailed you.

If feasible, do not leave your apt. Work from home if possible.

It sounds like any squatter's rights went out the window when they moved out. I would change the locks and then consult an attorney for reassurance, if you need it. Knowing that you have representation will probably give them pause, too.

Wake up Glamma and answer my questions: Quit with this Squatter's BS.

Did you have a rental agreement with the roommate?

Is the roommate under the lease to your LL with you?

Is the GF on any of these "agreements"?

Do you want to live in this apartment after your lease?

Consigliere, read more carefully and you'll see that glamma has provided the answers to your questions. The key one being that she OWNS the apartment, and lives in it.

Alan the fact pattern was rather confusing and I was hoping for it to be cleaned up.

So Glamma, tell me if this is correct?

You own an apartment and were renting a room to a roommate. You were renting to the roommate without any written lease agreement.The roommate's GF moved into the apartment with your permission, she was not added to any agreement.

They moved out and tried to get another apartment but it failed.

Is this correct?

How long have they been out of your apartment?

update us with how it goes glamma, best of luck.. sounds like they DID actually move out in your OP so they don't have that right anymore to squat.

Yes that is correct. Sorry guys been living a nightmare. Thx for all the support and advice. When can I change the locks?? They have been gone 2 days. Very complicated they want to come BACK and they still have keys. Freaking out

>When can I change the locks?? They have been gone 2 days. Very complicated they want to come BACK and they still have keys. Freaking out

Seriously?
Change locks tomorrow morning.

glamma. You have no contract with them now. Ie. they have given you no money in exchange to live in your place. Change the locks. All this squatter right stuff is bullshit. Show me an actual law. Change your locks.

I made the appt and am using my top lock until then and going out the fire escape. Heres the thing, I am getting very mixed advice about changing the locks and also hearing that even tho ti have on email them thanking me and agreeing to let me put there stuff in storage, I could still be charged for that bc its illegal to touch there stuff!! This bitch is fucking PSYCHO and has no life and is very vengeful. She will make torturing and prosecuting me her LIFE. even tho I have done nothing but help her. She is out of her mind. I want to be VERY careful. I am extremely stable and can afford a great lawyer, have been nothing but completely nice about all this and Own the apt. I know the important thing is to keep them out. What a mare he is texting me right now saying he wants to come here (too bad).

I bet, glamma, that if when you called the police, you said that "my ex-roommate moved out, and now they want to move back, and they are threatening me and I'm scared,etc." you would have gotten a different response. Your safety trumps "squatters rights" by any policeman and in any court of law.

you could just take the risk, change the locks, close your eyes and hope -- they would get the message. Why haven't you called a lawyer?

Don't sweat it. You think they are going to retain a lawyer. At this stage not clear what a lawyer will do for you. Just leave town for a few days. Block their emails.

Glamma, take a deep breath. Exhale. Repeat. Obviously don't let either of them back into your apartment.

Change locks. Tell them that you are hiring an attorney. Tell them that you will be seeking a restraining order. Document everything you can. Tell them that in any legal action you will be seeking legal fees.

You may then not even need to hire an attorney, but you should definitely have one on deck in case you find you need to do so.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this shit. No good deed goes unpunished.

Glamma, darling, best of luck to you. If they are OUT & gave permission to put their stuff in storage, it seems that they're GONE. You might want to talk to an attorney to be sure that you've done everything according to 'the book'. It seems to me that at this point they are just trying to brow beat you because they don't want to lose their Sugar Mamma. Be sure that you are stronger than they are. xox

I agree with the tougher positions here, the real NYers who know how to play the game like Aboutready and Ottawanyc, and disagree with the attorney hirers like Catguy and alanhart and 300mercy.

What the police said was that you might be arrested for changing the locks but did they say that they would break down the door for your ex-tenant (assuming he doesn't have his own court order)? The first you can mitigate by hiring a lawyer ASAP and getting a court order/establishing a paper trail. If indeed, the police will not get your ex-tenant access without his own court order, then I don't see an immediate (or uncorrectable) downside to changing the locks ASAP.

The other thing to think about might be to establish your own continuous residency in the apt just in case the ex-tenant tries to say that he was not just a roommate but rented the whole apartment.

Don't take this the wrong way, but please get a written lease for your new roommate. Make them sign every year.

Another thing to try would be to get a written agreement signed by both your ex-tenant and his gf that they voluntarily moved out, etc. in return for another couple nights' stay at a hotel. Might be cheaper overall.

P.S. Make sure you name both this ex-tenant and his gf in any legal action that you pursue.

I believe this situation is exactly what De Blasio means when he says a tale of two cities. You are wealthy and can afford an apartment. Your roommates are in a time of need. Since you have more, you must give it up or share it. If you are unwilling to do so, it is the government's responsibility to take it away from you and provide for the less fortunate.

As our president says "We all have to do our fair share".

There are all kinds of things I could comment on here, but I won't.

1) If you are the apartment owner and this is a coop, you're probably going to have a greater issue with that going forward.
2) They moved out. They no longer have any personal items in the apartment. Change the locks.
3) They have no binding or written agreement to be on the property.

There seems to be a lot of other back and forth on this topic and and I fail to see what the problem is. These people are trespassing period.

>I believe this situation is exactly what De Blasio means when he says a tale of two cities. You are wealthy and can afford an apartment. Your roommates are in a time of need. Since you have more, you must give it up or share it. If you are unwilling to do so, it is the government's responsibility to take it away from you and provide for the less fortunate.

If glamma lets them comeback, there's no added tax revenue, so not sure your thought process works here.

I will rise to the bait.

Easy - then de Blasio can push through laws to redistribute wealth to the extent he can. Property rights function of legal system. We could just as easily have no rights.

Av - fair is in the eyes of the beholder.

Nah - easy, the problem is whether there will be consequences to changing locks. It's that simple. A little proactive legal defense goes a long way. Trespassing to you, not trespassing to the courts.

Exactly, nyc10023 ... you seem to be among the few who get the potential avenues the situation can take, and what can be done to throw up roadblocks to one avenue or another. The goal being to force those grifters onto the beautiful boulevard of dead-ends.

Your hotel advice is good, but I bet bottom-feeders like these would be happier with some spendable cash instead. Offer a low amount so they can have the satisfaction of talking you up (to another low amount!).

glamma, if you go this route, have one or two friends of a respectable nature present as witnesses (and protection for you, physically). Or better yet, arrange to do the signing and cash exchange in the presence of a notary public ($2 fee!). They usually have them at UPS stores and mailbox/shipping type storefront places.

>>I am extremely stable and can afford a great lawyer, <<

Then for the love of god, man, do it NOW!

Yes, the Mailboxes Etc. store will solve this problem.

Ok guys. This is not about rich vs poor. This is about people who take responsibilities for their lives to the extent that they can vs people who do not. For the record, I grew up quite broke and worked my ass off since I was 12,. but I digress. I have spoken to 3 lawyers and done a lot of research and it seems I have LEGALLY evicted them by giving them 30 days to vacate in writing (actually 34) to which they agreed in writing, and since they have left, I think I just need to keep them out, and I should be fine to change the locks, the guy is coming tom. Until then there is someone in my apt at all times w the top lick locked from the inside (their is no key for that). Thank god for friends. I have bought a LOT of beer lately. Thanks to whoever posted this
.

http://brokerpulse.com/2012/06/28/the-nyc-guide-to-kicking-out-your-roommate/

I am going to kinkos to print out my texts and emails and stapling them to my front door along with my mortgage statement and a love letter to the nypd until they have a new address. I feel terrible what these people are dealing with but jesus christ this is my LIFE they are fucking with. This could have gone on for YEARS. If u cannot legally evict a tenant BY LAW u cannot even sell the apt (without them in it). Can u imagine

Don't feel bad AT ALL about what they're going through. You helped them. You had no obligation to do so, and certainly no obligation to continue. They have not been gracious about it ... and if it seems that it's mostly her, I'd like to point out that he could've talked to you on the side and apologized for her and said you're in the right. But AFAWK, he didn't.

And quite frankly, she could've gotten an abortion ... this seems like a textbook situation for which it makes sense to do so. They'll couch surf.

And always remember: OPP -- Other People's Problems.

Sidecars are more effective than beers, btw.

Glamma: best of luck.

"If u cannot legally evict a tenant BY LAW u cannot even sell the apt (without them in it). Can u imagine"

Now you know how the rent-stabilized landlords feel ;)

Landlords don't feel.

They feel. Angry that they bought buildings with r/s and r/c tenants that are outlasting their life expectancies. Angry that the state hasn't altered the laws faster.

Wait, as NWT and others have pointed out, the landlords owning the majority of the properties have ZERO interest in RS being abolished. Actually they would never admit it, but it would be against their self-interest.

Brodsky and their ilk are not actively living in their apartments, though. You analogy is very weak ;).

glamma, dont feel bad these people are parasites..

let us know results, best.

Glamma don't be intimidated by those people who want to make this a right wing allegory. People, Glamma is hardly a one-percenter, she is someone who has used hard work and good choices to become a decently paid professional but that hardly makes one rich in 21st century New York--or someone that DeBlasio would penalize to any degree. Sounds like she's an amazingly caring and decent person who was taken advantage of by low lifes. Yes, their are low lifes in this world but that is hardly an excuse for taking away food stamps, healthcare (60% people in poverty will not get to benefit from the Affordable Care Act because they live in states which turned down free money to expand Medicaid) or housing from people whose only "sin" is to be poor.

aboutready
about 2 hours ago
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They feel. Angry that they bought buildings with r/s and r/c tenants that are outlasting their life expectancies. Angry that the state hasn't altered the laws faster.
Wait, as NWT and others have pointed out, the landlords owning the majority of the properties have ZERO interest in RS being abolished. Actually they would never admit it, but it would be against their self-interest.
Brodsky and their ilk are not actively living in their apartments, though. You analogy is very weak ;).

Did you forget a paragraph about your own involvement and the windfall you received in all of this?

windfall ... that sounds so breezy and refreshing, like a York peppermint pattie.

Indeed alan.

you sound like a nice person, glamma--and always have, when ive read your posts here. from what youve said, it seems youve have taken the high road throughout this adventure (too high, perhaps).

you are lucky they have taken their belongings and left. now that youve changed your locks, ignore these people and move on. communicate with them only if you are served papers (beyond unlikely), and only through a lawyer.

otherwise forget about them--and feel no guilt.

hang in there, this will soon feel distant, but a blip.

I agree with yikes

You don't get to ask the questions.

tell us all what happened?

any update glamma? hope all's well.

glamma, everything work out?

Glamma, if you're in the slamma I'll bring you a pastrami sandwich. Do you like lots of mustard?

the lady vanishes

>the lady vanishes

Meanwhile, C0C0 is still here

Irony.

NativeRestless, your comment does leave me curious: if glamma had just been lucky and inherited this apartment rather than relying upon "hard work" and "good choices", how would that change your viewpoint on the situation? How about if glamma were a "one-percenter", would you still consider the struggling family to be "low lifes"?

The one percenter who needs a roommate to pay the bills or the one percenter who didn't need a roommate but was charitable enough to offer a nice arrangement to the tenant before this dispute and was further charitable in order to expand the the good deed to the tenant's significant other before this whole mess? Could you clarify your question for NativeRestless?

Fields, Question 1 clarification: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inheritance
Question 2 clarification: One-percenter = ~$350,000 of annual income or ~$15,500 monthly after tax. Based on the story, the one-percenter does not need the money but likes the money, so wants extra income wherever possible so decided to rent out a spare bedroom.

Yes, wants extra money.

Glamma is dead and you guys are worrying if she is a 1%?

@Ottawa: I fear the worst. Odd that she was so active on this board and now could be the topic of a Law & Order CSI episode.

Lol, the forensic team will get to the bottom of this.

Don't be assholes. Normal polite people don't talk about others as dead.

Any update from Glamma?

nope.