Measuring Sq Ft ?

yes Givemerb you are correct...square footage is all over the place. Your best bet is to forget the square footage listed. Look at the photos, floorplan, search building threads etc and pay a visit for anything that might work.

They usually include the measurements from the outside of the brick, through the room, through the common hallway, though the other wall, and into the next building.

If it's a co-op look in the offering plan for the square feet, however realize they also include common space in addition to the apartment since you technically own a portion of the hallways, lobby, gym...Looking at the floor plan provided can give you a decent idea, if you really want to know you'll have to measure. This is why many co-op listings don't advertise the square feet to protect themselves.

Condo's are much more accurate, once again common space could be included or perhaps the developer measured from the outside wall but it's less common than co-ops. Most condo listings will post an accurate square footage.

1. the only uniform formula is an inside-the-paint rule
2. everything inside the outermost painted walls is part of the apt

3. the hallway/elevator rule derives from commercial lease practice
4. it doesnt belong in residential apartment space calculations

5. unless you intend to use your hallway or elevator as living space

if its a condo, the tax bill will have t he sq ft listed with NYC. If getting a mortgage, the bank will send someone to estimate the value of the condo and they list accurate measurements. offering plans also have sq ft listed

Condo square footage is manipulated just as much as coop square footage. Who says the offering plan doesn't have the exterior walls included as well as common areas? Simple solution: forget all that manipulated paperwork and go see for yourself.

The tried and true formula is as follows:

Length of Room * Width of Room * 1.4 + 250

90% of floorplans are accurately measured and exaggerated by @ 10%.

A lot of people complain about interior stairs, hallways and foyers, etc.
I say well, then tear down the walls and make it a loft,and remove the stairs and put a sliding pole.

And usually the one who complains about the bedroom including the walk in closet for dimensions bemoans the bedroom on another property that offers no closets.

And full floor apartments that include elevator and stairs. It is a luxury to be the only one on your floor. Unless of course public stairs and elevator eat up more than 10% of the space, then you have a beef. But it usually ends up reflecting in the price per square foot anyway.

The only way to truly get a handle is to do competent comp work.
See several properties, verify their footprints, compare deficiencies, and then make adjustments.
It's not that hard.

Ultimately, if everyone is cheating roughly the same amount, your back to comping apples to apples.

Mr_Realty_NYC, I thought co-op square footage didn't exist in the initial offering since you don't technically own anything but shares in the building and the rights to a lease. However, you are correct that it should exist in a condo offering plan.

Does anyone know how co-ops initially allocate shares? Does each building come up with a specific formula for allocating shares - e.g. # of shares = a*SF + b*Floor + c*Windows + d*(exterior vs. interior) etc.? Or is it more of a lick your finger and stick it in the air type of approach?

buster2056, the co-ops managing agent should have a copy of the initial offering plan of the co-op and the approximate gross square feet will be listed for each apartment.

I took part in a deal where the advertised square feet for a co-op apartment was 2,170sf (the initial offering plan later confirmed this), however the bank appraisal came back saying it was 1,760sf. I had to explain to my client that common space was included in the calculation of 2,170sf. We went back to the apartment with an architect and sure enough all three of us measured somewhere between 1,700sf - 1800sf. I know including the common space is a hard pill to swallow, but as an owner you technically own that space so the agent wasn't wrong using 2,170sf. Bottom line the listing agent never should have advertised the the square feet in a co-op, lesson learned. The measurements in her floor plan were actually quite accurate.

buster2006:

1. I looked at hundreds of buildings during the 1980's when there
was a huge wave of foreclosures

,
2. in many buildings there was no logic to share allocation, and
they often have no correlation with apt value

3. based upon my observation in the 1980's, when Coop Sponsors needed
to sell 15% of their apts to get their Plans approved, shares were
uften underallocated to studios and maybe 1-bds in order to reach
the needed15% without discounting the more value 2-bs and 3-bds

>during the 1980's

1980s? Totally irrelevant. Measurements have completely changed since that time.

@truthskr10: it is rare for "normal" apts that they include common area sq footage but I believe in the case of full floor apts that they include the emergency exit staircase, which can be significant.

Fieldschester:

1. please crawl back into your burrow
2. Ground Hog Day hasnt arrived yet

Groundhog day will be here soon. And the day after.

i've seen the same condo apartment advertised with different sq footage amounts when relisted.
i've also seen the same unit layouts on different floors advertised with different sq ft.
I think it is a crapshoot. some brokers/owners are more honest.