Hamilton Heights

There are lots of posts on Hamilton Heights- you can do a search on the discussions on the right side of your screen. That said, the neighborhood is changing dramatically for the better. You aren't going to have the same level of neighborhood amenities as you would on the UWS, but the retail mix today is already very different than it was just 2 years ago- and even more new businesses are opening. If you aren't already reading the blog Harlem Bespoke I would highly recommend it.

If you go just a little farther north you'll find:

a) increased safety
b) more quiet
c) better retail options
e) restaurants that serve food.

... mostly lobster rolls. Maine is delightful.

We're just above you on 157th St with 3 small children. It's amazing the changes. We always liked it here but now it's a "we love it here" situation. There is a great MeetUp mothers group and so many new places to meet. Feels like Park Slope maybe 10 years ago? That said, there are a lot of great places to settle down in. I suggest exploring the area by foot/stroller and hit the local establishments to see if you like it. Also if you have a dog there are two great dog parks with active communities. A new portion of our friends (completely unexpected) come from the MeetUp groups and the dog park. We just had a wonderful paella dinner and wine tasting and the best part is we really only knew the dog names and said "oh, you're Effie's mom or Apollo's dad?} It was fantastic. Good luck!

Eliz181144---Where do your kids go to school, or where do you plan to send them when they are of the age

thanks

There is a new charter school on 145th - any insight? http://www.globalcommunitycs.org/

lookingtobuy - I've been a landlord in HH for years. My office is here and I love it. You should note that in 2008 things were getting much better, then during the downturn things got worse, now things are improving rapidly again. 3 years ago when I got a vacant apartment I couldn't get anyone with a social security number to apply for my apartments - this year my new tenants all have credit scores above 700. It's amazing the changes that have occurred in just the last two years. The trend has lots of momentum and I'm buying more stuff in the area.

I've always said the best way to tell how a neighborhood is changing is to see who is renting/buying the vacant apartments. Go to open-houses even if you're not interested in the apartment. See who is there. You'll notice a huge cross-section of interesting/capable people. It's really exciting to see.

Jazzman--do you happen to also be a property manager?
Someone I know is looking for a good property manager/super in that area.

Thanks

I have a property management business but I only manage buildings that I own. Sorry.

Hi Jazzman, you probably saw this, and it doesn't add much to the conversation, but Harlem Bespoke wrote a posting about the Charter School: http://harlembespoke.blogspot.com/2014/02/introducing-charter-school-for-sugar.html

>I have a property management business but I only manage buildings that I own. Sorry.

Do you really have a property management business then?

thank you all for your comments, i really appreciate that. we are looking in upper convent and the block is so so...but i think we are going to go for it. my only big concern was safety issue of st nicholas, it just seems a bit down on its luck...but could also be a grim winter look...

Don't worry....Upper St. Nicholas is slowly improving. Many of the brownstones have already been converted to condo, and several of the buildings are in the process of being renovated/converted.

Upper Convent is gorgeous! Good luck!

I live on upper Convent and see no blocks that are "so so". What does that even mean? I guess it depends on your expectations. My experience is that I live on one of the most beautiful streets in Manhattan. It's quiet, calm, safe, friendly. St Nicholas is 100% safe, though a little down at the heels in places. But it's changing and becoming more prosperous. The beautiful Bailey mansion on St Nick is now restored, there's a maker of baroque stringed instruments who's just opened shop, and a formerly abandoned large apartment building at 150th and St Nick is now under renovation.

I have lived in Hamilton Heights for around seven years and worked here for twelve. Nothing scared me about the area when I first got here, and everything has gotten safer, nicer, plusher since. I have no doubt that the trend is strongly continuing. Lookingtobuy77, if you become my neighbor here, you'll be very lucky and I think you'll enjoy living here. The only negative I see is that we are presently short on specialty stores (such as gourmet groceries, stationers, clothing), but that's a very small disadvantage.

Still, wouldn't it be much nicer to live in Manhattan?

totally agree with Uptown212.
at the moment you seem to have the choice of buying any of three townhouses for about $2.8 million or thereabouts. wouldn't call that so-so at all....certainly not for that price.

I largely agree with Uptown212 and ACH, though I do vary slightly. St. Nick @ 145 is still a little sketchy going in and coming out of the subway. That said, Uptown nailed it on the James Bailey (known from Barnum and Bailey circus) mansion- the new owners did an exacting restoration on the exterior of the building. Some of stained glass in the house were designed by L.C. Tiffany. The supermarkets on Broadway have been renovating in the last 6 months. Even in the last week there have been some significant news in the neighborhood. The church that owned PS 186 (the abandoned school on 145th) sold it to a developer in December- so we will finally see things move forward there. Additionally the Hamilton Palace theater on Broadway and 146th potentially may undergo restoration and a condo addition.

I have lived in Hamilton Heights for 8 years. The first year and a half to two years was pretty rough and dangerous (though when I moved here it was one of the most dangerous blocks in the neighborhood). Since then, each year the neighborhood has been improving, but things seemed to really move in fast forward the last year and a half with a stream of new restaurants and much wealthier residents.

Thanks all. We actually lost out on the house to another buyer putting in full asking and then another buyer going 100K over asking. Yikes. I'm really hoping more inventory comes on the market, we don't have a HUGE budget but we've save a pretty good chunk for a down payment.
After lots of careful consideration and really looking around, and your comments as well- we are very focused on Hamilton Heights.
And regarding my comment about so-so block, i just meant almost all the blocks around upper and lower convent off St NIcks etc...are so beautiful and this particular block whilst in that general area wasn't too great - bordered up brownstones, parking lot across the street and very little greenery or trees. That was my personal take after seeing all the other gorgeous blocks.
Hoping to see more inventory in the spring, we just love the nabe.

Looking to Buy--there are a handful of 2-3 bedroom apartments on market in Hamilton Heights that seem to be newly renovated.
Looks like the townhouses in Hamilton Heights on the market would need a lot of work.

Lookingtobuy--

Glass half empty, glass half full! I think you are talking about my block, which I love and find beautiful. The small parking lot across the street means more light in my windows, since we're not as directly facing another tall building. The brownstones seem to be on their way to getting fixed up. And I see the very green and lovely triangular park (where Convent runs into Hamilton) out my bedroom window. Birds wake me up in the morning from that park.

Anyway, I hope things work out for you.

"The small parking lot across the street means more light in my windows, since we're not as directly facing another tall building. "

It also saves you that trip around the block to purchase your -- ahem -- "medications".

Christopher Gray says Broadway above West 135th Street is a tepid stretch:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/realestate/the-hamilton-theaters-changing-act.html

Yes, the Hamilton Theater WAS gorgeous in its heyday, but Gray buries the real point down near the bottom of the article: "it is (now) one of the most spectacular wrecks in New York City."

NYCMatt--

I have to say, you don't know what you're talking about and you're also not funny. That's quite the combination.

Yeah Matt, we are talking about Convent and St. Nicholas, and Sugar Hill

You are talking about an old theatre on Broadway that will be converted to condos

Yeah Matt, we are talking about Convent and St. Nicholas, and Sugar Hill

You are talking about an old theatre on Broadway that will be converted to condos

I was commenting on the article, not on the location of the theatre.

Oh, please.
I remember when what is now "The Upper West Side " was not considered to be a" good neighborhood".
I also remember when The Beacon Theatre was slated for demolition.
It was not considered to be in a good enough neighborhood and as such, was not considered to be worth "saving".
I still have some "SAVE THE BEACON THEATRE" button-pins.
Back in the early/mid 1980's, people on the line outside The Beacon were asked by activists to sign petitions to "SAVE THE BEACON".

The beacon was declared a national landmark in 1979.

It surprises me to still see these debates going on. The area is identical to the trajectory of Park Slope. If you're at that stage in your life it's great for buying. If you need cheap rent and space it's great too. The influx of bars, restaurants, and new condos has made the old complaints irrelevant. My family has been here for 7 years and we even find ourselves taken aback at the pace of "gentrification" or whatever the current term is.

Do prices seem to be rising at a good pace? Do you guys think the townhouses and condos will reach the prices of Mt. Morris Park area of Harlem, and if yes, how long do you estimate it might take.

I realize this is just a guestimate.

Thanks, eliz, for providing a sane take on this as usual. You've been explaining the uptown situation here so well for a long time now.

scarednyc--my crystal ball is in the shop at the moment, so no specific predictions about timing. But of course the prices for townhouses here will equal those of other Harlem neighborhoods in time. Some of the housing stock up this way is even grander than near Mt. Morris, after all. There's only so much Manhattan island to go around, and here are the very last affordable opportunities. It's surprising to me that there isn't more of a buying frenzy for this area right now. I am so happy to own an apartment in Hamilton Heights, and glad to know that some great opportunities are still available around here for others.

eliz181144, you have a second career waiting for you: standup comedienne. Identical to the trajectory of Park Slope -- truly a laff riot!

Actually Eliz might very well be spot on. The demographic of buyers are certainly changing and from my personal observations, the speed at which things are changing is now in full swing. New restaurants, bars and services continue to open- some without success and too soon, but most of the new businesses seem to be doing well. In the next several months we can expect Grill on the Hill on Amsterdam and 141, a second location for Covo, an expansion of Harlem Public and a Indian restaurant. PS 186 is about to be redeveloped finally after all these years sitting vacant, and we may even see the Hamilton Theater get restored.

I am hoping to go to the Sugar Hill Market hosted by Harlem Bespoke this weekend- it should be interesting, but I am not sure I can make it.

I'm a big fan of HH but think MT Morris Park will still be a more expensive area 15 years from now. HH is constrained in that the trains only get you to the west side of Midtown. If my office were in East Midtown I wouldn't consider HH.

But note that today a $2MM townhouse in HH will cost you about $3MM if it were on W 121st. So the question then is which appreciates more? Will the one in HH be worth $4MM and the one on W 121st be $6MM in 10 years. My guess is yes - they will appreciate at a similar pace/rate.

I was thinking something similar to Jazzman's approach. Additionally, Mt. Morris Park is a stop closer on the express trains to midtown, and certainly closer to Central Park.

Which one has more methadone clinics?

Thanks again everyone. We are stil looking and have been researching the area extensively! In my opinion it does seem like HH, specifically around Convent ave is on a steady incline. But I also thinks it takes a certain person to live in that area if they have the means to buy a 2 mill property. There are a lot of misconceptions about Harlem, even born and bred New Yorkers. By certain person, I mean someone who is open minded and maybe just a little bit of a visionary because there are still blocks that aren't that great. But our overall opinion is super positive - lots of the same things were said about Brooklyn (Park Slope) and UWS in the 80's. I do think it is a personal choice and decision, I want our kids to be in a truly diverse neighborhood, the other big draw is the feeling of space, maybe it is because the area is up and on a hill like terrain, it just feels like you can breath and leave midtown and the chaos behind. I digress!

PS Jazzman - the other question i had - we are only looking at properties that we can have a rental income - how easy was it to find a tenant and a good one. And what could a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom get in rent?
Thanks

apartments rent in less than a month - renting during the summer months will most likely mean a higher rate and a better quality tenant.
Apartments in townhomes often rent for a premium - something really nice about having that New York experience for so many.... one beds will rent for north of $1,500 and two beds north of $2,000.

I moved to Hamilton Heights last year and I live on the West side of HH near Riverside Drive by the 145th 1 station. Walking around, you can definitely feel the neighborhood changing in terms of diversity. This is a neighborhood heavy with artists and musicians but, as property prices continue to increase, it is also increasingly becoming a hub for young professionals.

In terms of your question, there's quite a few families who live in my building and they have no complaints -- large apartments, diversity. I can see how this is a prime neighborhood for families, as it's close to Riverbank State Park and there are shopping options -- Key Food, C Town, and Fairway if you're up for a walk.

One thing that most people tend to complain about in HH is noise and loud radio playing from cars. However, note that most buildings in HH are pre-war (thick walls) so it isn't much of an issue unless you are outside.

Other than that, I highly recommend this neighborhood. Whether you're moving in a family, living by yourself, or looking to invest.

Hello again, so we refined our search to Washington Heights, specifically Audubon Terrace area, anyone familiar with the area?

It's much safer today than it was just yesterday .... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/05/nyregion/dozens-of-suspected-gang-members-arrested-in-raid-of-2-harlem-housing-projects.html

Hopefully a really lot of cops will be around if any people go uptown. And the occasional SWAT team with helicopters.

I think that is almost an extension of Sugar Hill, even though technically in Washington Heights.

If you're really "looking to buy" ... especially in Washington Heights ... STAY WEST OF BROADWAY. Trust me. I live in the 'hood. East of Broadway is filthy, noisy, and dangerous after dark. West of Broadway is a near polar opposite. Yes, it's more expensive, but the money spent will be well worth it. Good luck.