Very noisy neighbor above me

I'd work to get new people on the Board. The managing agent will do nothing since he's the Board President. I've lived in buildings where people have wiggled the way onto the Board to be "exempt" from complaints. We had one owner do that after presented with numerous complaints about the basketball net being installed on a light fixture in the public hallway.

Keep records, make recordings, and I would file an NYC noise complaint and see what happens:

http://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/service/1197/noise-from-neighbor

Thanks for the responses! The thing is, and I guess I should have said this outright: I am also a lawyer, know the law/my rights and my way around a Courtroom and with that, I also know that going the legal route can be lengthy, costly and create future burdens labeling me as "litigious" etc with the Board/other residents. I don't want to be branded as one of those people who goes to the neighbor/managing agent with the "I am a lawyer so you will die" kind of thing, I just thought I might try the highly out of character "I am just trying to be a good neighbor" routine first.

Seriously? For a lawyer, you didn't do your due diligence before buying the place?
You're stuck.

I asked the sellers if there were any issues with noise and they said no but they actually lived in both NY and D.C. for several years and travelled internationally for work for months at a ttime. Moreover, all of my many showings, inspections, etc. took place during the day and on the weekends and I heard nothing. There was also no indications of any noise complaints from any other medium. Additionally, their apartment is on the top floor and only goes over my apartment so no other neighbors could have been affected.

Flutistic has given you good advice. I know from personal experience.

Ericho: if we all were able to have a pre-purchase live-in to check it out, lack of due diligence would be reasonable in such situations.

Need to put down 80% carpeting: http://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/17818-80-carpet-rules

Carpet, especially carpet with sound underlayment, will help with the running, but if the kids are jumping off the coffee table and landing on the floor it probably won't. Yet my feeling is that that is the place to start.

Check the building policies about carpeting, then draw up a letter on your letterhead, and point out that you've tried several times to work your noise issues out politely (and mention the birthday party bit -- how hard is it to warn your neighbors you're having a party?) and that you need the building rules with regard to noise disturbances and carpeting to be followed, and that if you continue to have noise problems you're going to go to the city. IIWY I would make no threats of legal action whatsoever. But I would send that letter to every single person on the board, and keep a copy.

Then, as flutistic suggests, call 311 every day.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

What neighborhood is this in?

i bought a beautiful old loft in soho and had to sell it three years later (after coop flip tax expired) because of *exactly* what you are describing. It was quite upsetting I tried everything, and they kind of felt bad upstairs, but only so much they could do with young active children in an old building like that. ultimately i was told the only thing that would work for that kind of foot-fall sound would be for them to redo their floors with serious soundproofing (concrete vs/ layered plywood and heavy rubber mat).

We are not talking about building a house here. Due Diligence in buying an apartment includes knowing who lives NEXT (weed smoke?), ABOVE (family with young kids?) and BELOW (old lady that can't take even a pin drop) you. I assume this is a prewar building which has horrible flooring (wood)?

Thanks for the suggestions. I obviously know the rules, etc. (80/20, the prop lease, etc.), but just wanted to ensure that I take action in the most formidable rather than forceful way. Ericho, what you are saying is idiotic. The only apartment next to us has been empty/for sale for almost a year so obviously no noise there. As far as upstairs, yes, I knew they had children (the sellers told me) but they told us one of them was on the board and they never had an issue (and again, the sellers admittedly were not there a lot in the prior 2 years because they had 2 homes/travelled for work), when we were there many, many times prior to contract (and even after), we never heard anything. Your commentary is simply ridiculous.

" Your commentary is simply ridiculous." is it? Look at your own comment below...

"but they told us one of them was on the board and they never had an issue"

As a lawyer, I'm shocked you would believe the sellers words. Now you will live with this noise for potentially 3-6 years or lie your teeth off to any buyers that's interested in your place.

Pre War building + 2 young kids = Lots and lots of noise.

You are an idiot. Next time I will add a clause to the contract asking the seller to warrant the conduct of the upstairs neighbors whom they have absolutely no control over. Sure, that will get the deal done... Or perhaps, next time I will ask the seller for a pre-purchase/pre-closing sleepover. And I grew up in Manhattan and have lived under people with kids before. Never ever has it come close to anything like this.

I'll be nice. Here's a link to help you.
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2013/05/28/the_ultimate_guide_to_dealing_with_your_nyc_neighbors.php
Maybe you should add that clause next time.
"The neighbors above us have 2 small children and literally, nearly every weekday morning from 6 a.m. to 8 a.m,"

Obviously based on what you wrote, you were deceived by the seller. Yes, they might not be there full time but for you to HEAR it every day between those times said they found their sucker. Again..pre-war building with 2 small kids = lots and lots of noise and there's pretty much NOTHING you can do about it if the owners upstairs don't give a fock.

I live in a moderately sized prewar building with... six kids under two that I can count, plus a couple of three-four year olds. The idea that noise must be a given is ridiculous, especially since what we're talking about doesn't sound like footfalls, it sounds like jumping/ball playing. I grant that there is a window of toddlerhood where they're just going to jump off the coffee table, but that window doesn't last for a year. This situation is because the parents aren't stopping the kids. And that's why I'm suggesting continued pressure.

ali r.

Lz3: Don't waste time arguing with Ericho. "Due diligence in buying an apartment" does not provide you with "know(ing)" who lives in the surrounding apartments. You would have no way of knowing how the person
next door causes "weed smoke", "the old lady who can't take even a pin drop" lives below you.
It is reasonable to expect that the shareholder living above you (with or without "2 small kids") would not be exempt from the co-op rules because one is on the board.
If the residents upstairs "don't give a fock" you still have the right to do everything that you have tried and then to take the issue to the next annual shareholders' meeting.

So, Ericho, I should not only enter into a contract with the seller but I should also have the upstairs neighbor, who is not a party to the sale, also added to that contract but solely for the purposes of warranting what their children may or may not do in the future (which is already governed by the Prop Lease/NY law) and also have the seller agree that if upstairs neighbor breaches that I am entitled to damages? Makes complete and total sense... I am sure that would have made the contract process a breeze.
Ali, Edwin and others, thanks for the advice and support! Much appreciated!!

If all else fails, retaliation may be called for. Late night tapping on the ceiling, or banging for that matter.

Lz3: the annual meeting of shareholders is usually held in the spring, after the Annual Report is distributed to shareholders. Attend the meeting.

Sorry, RealEstateNY:
Lz3: do not resort to retaliation. There is no need and no resolving of the problem will get accomplished that way.

LZ3 good luck, i hope thing work out one way or another.

Ericho, you have a problem.

Not to mention the fact that at any given time you can acquire a new neighbor. How could you possibly research your future neighbors? What stupid advice. But EricHo is not known for meaningful commentary, much less cogent advice.

It never pays to make noise in retaliation. I knew someone who did that and the people upstairs escalated their noise, both in duration and volume. The upstairs family lodged a complaint against the downstairs neighbors.

What I would do in the interim is trying to figure out how you can deaden the noise coming into your apartment. See this booklet as there are different treatments for different types of noise:
http://www.nonoise.org/epa/Roll10/roll10doc26.pdf
This is an old booklet but is still worthwhile.

Thanks again for the advice everyone (except you know who)! I'll keep everyone posted and just hope that the overly aggressive litigator in me doesn't take over if it continues to get worse. I would prefer to be more passive aggressive until, as Dalton in Road House wisely advocated, I know for sure that it is time to "stop being nice." Yes, I just quoted "Roadhouse"...

Hi truth!

Keep us posted on the outcome of the noise. Maybe we can all learn a few things from your situation.

Let's all stop the pretending. I'm sure everyone that have read this entire thread and looking for an apartment will pay 'extra' attention and DD on the neighbors adjacent to the unit of interest.

Hi again truth!

10011, that's like a stuttering or schizophrenic palindrome ZIP code. Probably the latter, because how else can you explain someone calling out, unprovoked, for the truth without even telling us what his or her version of the truth actually is.

I've now read the thread completely.
First of all, what kind of co-op has a young father of kids as a board president instead of a power-hungry but nothing better to do 50-60 year old idiot, some older widower or spinster, or someone who went to Harvard Law School but gave it all up for her kids she is still rearing yet still wants to prove she can contribute her brilliant intellect to society? This is not a young dad's job unless he's under-employed, incompetent and impotent.
Which brings me to my second point - this "co-op board president" is obviously completely overwhelmed in his personal, professional, and residential life. You are second-hand suffering from it. He's got too much going on in his own mind, and there's your angle. He's vulnerable. Very vulnerable.
So either you can view this situation as an opportunity to elevate - be a better person, be polite, talk to the management company, kissy kissy hope for the best, "let it go for another month" and then another month and . Or, you can escalate. You become the bigger problem. Think as if you are w67thstreet fighting to prevent yet another person from touching his wife instead of buying into one of his IRS scams, or c0lumbiac0unty with his record, or pull a little alanhart (google him if you need to know more), or take one of those indignant (but yes, worthless) Chris Hayes attitudes like inoitall. Use that mindset, he's got kids, you've got lots on your side. So don't give in, don't throw in the towel, sell, and move to Long Island City / Greenpoint / Williamsburg like a fake New Yorker from some toxic dying industrial city. You are in the right here, it's just about channeling the right energy and maximizing your leverage against the loud jerk's weakness. Be a bigger jerk. This is New York.

What neighborhood is this in?

Exactly, we need to know more.

See NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/realestate/noisy-neighbors-co-op-fees-secondhand-smoke.html?ref=realestate&_r=0

Buy an album of Ethel Merman's greatest hits, and just when it starts to get quiet upstairs -- meaning that the family is going to bed -- put your speakers up to the ceiling and let it rip. I GUARANTEE it will make the point and things will quiet down.

Jelj: that check list was done by lz3 He did his best. Forget the cookies, no "peace offering" needed.

Thanks again everyone! My "making cookies" days are over. Although I tried in good faith (many, many times), it is simply ineffective. Going to have to strongly and properly assert my rights after I am back from vacation next week. Retaliation never works in situations like this so I am going to play it by the book. And Alanhart, why do you care what neighborhood this is in?

Lz3: "Alanhart" is a hateful troll. He doesn't "care" about you or the neighborhood where you live.
He and "10011" are friends. He only posts comments, trying to start arguments to join in with her.
His nom de se: "alanhart" should be enough for you to know that he has nothing to offer here.

The neighborhood matters.

Lz3,
Letter to the board is best way. The best they can do it to ensure that carpeting rule of the coop is followed.

What is it like to be impotent?

I would also CC the managing agent on any communication to the board since they may be enforcing the carpeting rule.

FIeldschester, you wouldn't be saying that if you recently spoke to your Mom...

I did speak to my mom. Before I spoke to her, I never imagined she had a problem with impotence because she has no penis. Oddly, when I did speak to her, she didn't disabuse my long-held strong belief (actually, knowledge) that she had no penis. So ... maybe you could clarify what you mean that I wouldn't ask 300_mercer about his impotence if I spoke to my mom.

"actually, knowledge"... ???

You're even dumber than you sound on here. Your Mom has knowledge of my lack of impotence. You want pictures?

>"actually, knowledge"... ???

Yes. I was born, out of my mother's womb. That's my actual knowledge. How did it work with you and your mother?

>Your Mom has knowledge of my lack of impotence. You want pictures?

My mom's not a young lady, how old are you? Or did she spot you at the pharmacy when you were refilling your Rx?

Fieldchester, you are a disturbed individual. I feel sorry for you.

How old are the kids? perhaps in 6-12 months, they might be headed to school/preschool, etc and you may hear the noise only for an hour or the kids may grow out of jumping/running in a year. Otherwise fighting a coop board president will take a year too and not to mention whenever you are ready to sell or rent due to unforeseen circumstances, board may make things hard for you.

Also, people have a right to host a birthday party anytime after 10 am and 8 pm and if you are annoyed so much, there are always the suburbs or single family homes in Astoria. Imagine, instead of kids, you had a fat man upstairs who is a heavy walker. Would you tell him to stop walking?

I'm sad that djam feels sorry for me based on his or her diagnosis.

>Also, people have a right to host a birthday party anytime after 10 am and 8 pm

On the birth day (or test tube day as appropriate), not every day.

I've known 2 families in the past with similar situation. The result. They both sold and moved into the suburb. Controlling the kids action is a full time job. Most parents simply don't have the time or patience. Babysitters? Fuggedaboutit!

>They both sold and moved into the suburb.

The suburb?

Which is that? Is it in C0lumbia C0unty?

>Fuggedaboutit!

Where are you from?

Born in NYC and lived here my whole life. You'll have your fair share of crazy neighbors. In my last place, I lived with 4 other girls who were barely home. My next door neighbor was an old lady with nothing better to do than to follow me around and ask me what's in our Amazon packages. Several times, the doorman would tell us that the super knocked and entered our apartment because she heard rap music and drumming from our unit. No one was home and it was 99% coming from upstairs. Meanwhile, her TV was so loud that it would shake our walls. She was rent stabilized so while we were paying close to $8,000 per month, she was paying less than $800 for her studio. I, and a few others, explained our situation the management company and eventually moved out. They really tried to get us to stay, lowering the rent to $6,500 for our 4.5 BR/3.5 BA unit. If you are renting at market prices, you hold some leverage.

I then purchased a place in a co-op building with over 180+ units in Midtown. It was much quieter. In fact, the day I moved in, the old guy next door called the front desk at 5:30pm because I accidentally bumped into my dining room table and it was past the 9-5 noise time. This was the other side of the spectrum since this is NYC and you can't expect no noise. After I settled in, I wrote a note to the downstairs and upstairs neighbors introducing myself, and spoke to the guys on the same floor, about reaching out to me if something ever came up. I gave them my contact information, and told them that I intended to live here for a long time with no problems. The guy downstairs wrote back and said "thank you" and the others have called or knocked instead of falsely ratting me out to the doormen. The lady upstairs has a mean footstep so usually what they're hearing is her but then again, there are 180+ units and someone is always doing construction. Get some good noise-isolating headphones and play some light music, or white noise.

The best advice on these threads is to purchase a top floor apartment. After 2 years of looking, I'm about to move into one and yes, it's a bit smaller than my current place but you have a lot more freedom in terms of noise. If you can, and since you have the money to rent in NYC, finding a reasonably priced top floor unit is not that far of a stretch. I have not heard a single neighbor on the top floor unit, just those damn pigeons cooing. A new type of anxiety I suppose...