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How We Got A Deal Buying In Brooklyn w/o Broker

Started by rachel27
about 10 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Sep 2014
Discussion about
I wanted to write this post because my partner and I were novices who came into the home-buying process knowing nothing about it. Though we made a few mistakes (detailed below) in the end we got an excellent 750 square foot one-bedroom apartment in Park Slope less than half a block from Grand Army Plaza for more than $100k less than the identical apartment a few floors up. We did it all without a... [more]
Response by mache
about 10 years ago
Posts: 47
Member since: Oct 2011

Thanks for sharing! We've been searching for a while. This is very helpful.

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Response by scout15
about 10 years ago
Posts: 28
Member since: Jun 2015

Keep in mind though, most sellers already retained a broker, so unless you happen to find a sell by owner property (which does happen but seems to be rare in the city), it doesn't give you that big of an edge over other buyers. Yeah, there's a possibility the selling broker will offer to give the seller a discount on the commission if they accept your offer since they're getting both sides of it, but that's about it.

Working with a broker as a buyer does have some benefits. If you're a first time buyer, they can answer basic questions, like letting you know you need to have a lawyer lined up, you can ask them about things like timelines for getting a mortgage, questions about contingencies on the contract, etc. And the broker will be responsible for setting up appointments to see places you want to see, which can actually be a pain in the ass. You would THINK that the selling broker has a vested interest in showing the place to possible buyers, but there's plenty of shitty brokers out there who don't answer the phone, take forever to respond to messages/voicemails (if they respond at all), or are difficult to work with in general.

That said, you don't absolutely need a broker, and if you do get one, make sure you get a good one. If you get a broker who doesn't answer messages, never seems to be available, or no show/no calls an appointment then drop them immediately (especially that last one, hugely unprofessional for a broker to pull that kind of crap).

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Response by lad
about 10 years ago
Posts: 707
Member since: Apr 2009

Interesting post.

Prior to selling an apartment, I would have said expressing your interest in the apartment -- e.g., "bid in" -- was not a good thing. Now that I've sold, my perspective has changed because of New York's odd contracting process, where you don't really have a "deal" for at least 5-7 days. We had one offer, which we were ready to accept, pull out unexpectedly after writing an over-the-top "sell your apartment to meeeeee" love letter. I'm glad that he at least had the decency to pull out. My neighbor had a buyer literally vanish. Verbal acceptance. Contract out. Neither the buyer nor the lawyer ever returned messages again.

We had another offer from someone who kept asking to see the apartment again, even after submitting a bid. The experience with the first guy pulling out made us not even want to deal with anyone who could possibly be flaky. The buyer's likelihood to return a contract to us, measured by consistent and sometimes aggressive enthusiasm, was absolutely a factor in our decision-making.

A dual-agent broker can be better equipped to sniff out potential flakiness or uncertainty. When we bought, the contract took an extraordinarily long time due to a bad lawyer (that the broker recommended). Because the broker was dealing with us directly and hearing our frustrations with this slow and nonresponsive lawyer, he knew everything was OK. As a seller in a two-broker transaction, if the contract had taken as long as it did when I was a buyer, I'd have been telling my broker to go to a backup offer because I wouldn't have believed anything a buyer's broker said.

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Response by front_porch
about 10 years ago
Posts: 5319
Member since: Mar 2008

hijack -- Lad sorry you lost your first buyer, but IME, if a party to a deal is going to flake, they're going to flake, whether they're a client or a customer. I've had my buyer clients make offers and then wander off, even after acceptance, and I've been a listing broker with unrepresented buyers who "changed their mind" (the last time it happened, their lawyer was like "what do you mean they pulled out? Last time we talked they were fine.") Much as we brokers like to tout our screening abilities, it's not always predictable -- and moreover, it's rarely reversible --there's no level of sales that is going to make someone with serious qualms stay the course, especially at these price points.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

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Response by lad
about 10 years ago
Posts: 707
Member since: Apr 2009

Completely agree that people who will flake will end up flaking regardless of who the broker is. And that there's no changing their minds once they flake.

In NYC, there is the added dimension of "is this person submitting a bid a serious or flaky" that you don't have in other places, where the buyer submits a standard contract and deposit with the offer. I didn't fully appreciate that until I sold.

In the end, the guy who flaked was not a big deal for me. We had other, equally good offers. This guy's profile was a little better, and we would have sold to him to minimize board rejection risk from 2% to 1%. It just had me wondering who these people were submitted offers and then vanished, and what their brokers thought of them. I couldn't believe it when it happened to my neighbor, and then when it happened to me -- on an offer that was impeccably put together and presented -- it made me wonder if it was more common than I thought. Does the frenzied nature of NYC real estate convince buyers they need to act NOW NOW NOW or they'll lose the apartment, and then they change their minds after a cooling-off period?

We had a second offer that I thought was headed down the same path, and I told the broker not to go back to this offer when we went to best and final. The behavior was so strange that I wouldn't have believed any offer was real.

Ali, what did you do with your buyers who flaked? Did you work with them again? Did they eventually buy anything? Curious if "once a flake, always a flake," and how much of this behavior brokers will tolerate.

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Response by KeithBurkhardt
about 10 years ago
Posts: 2987
Member since: Aug 2008

Sometimes buyers do "flake" however there can be valid reasons for this.We are always transparent with the sell side, however we never lose sight of the fact we are representing the buyers best interest. Quite frankly when we have frenzied clients, we calmly explain there is no real reason to rush into anything here. Offers by the nature of the NYC beast have no real teeth, everything is up in the air until both parties sign and the check is deposited. Some times it is more strategic to wait..unless maybe you are all cash and can use that as leverage. Of course our model adds both value and expertise to the process. We have yet to have anyone with an accepted offer just disappear, sorry about that Ali! When I sense someone is waffling I always step up to remind them if they are bailing, it's not the end of the world, let's just let everyone know..

Keith Burkhardt
The Burkhardt Group

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Response by front_porch
about 10 years ago
Posts: 5319
Member since: Mar 2008

Lad, buyer who flaked did buy something else, still using me as buyer's broker. Ended up with something bigger ... I think part of the issue was buyer nervous about the NYC market, and had to make two cuts at the apple to get comfortable with the higher price point he/she ended up at. As Keith said, it makes sense to not rush, but sometimes clients feel pressure to get "settled" -- this particular buyer was a "relo" and in a less-than-ideal short-term rental situation -- and you just try to roll with that.

Last buyers who disappeared when I was on the sell-side bought something else and then I sold the apartment to another set of buyers for a higher price, so that one worked out for everybody. It's nail-biting when you're in it though.

HI Keith!

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