Bidding

There is no such thing as an insulting offer. There are, of course, brokers and sellers who are sufficiently stupid to be insulted by an offer, but why would you want to do business with them anyway, especially on an unexceptional apartment?

If you can post a link to the listing, the board might be able to offer some guidance about a realistic price. At the end of the day, though, the right price is one that both you and the seller find equally satisfactory (and unsatisfactory).

8% is a gift! Unless it's a unique property, I wouldn't start much above 85-87% of the offer. If you were to start at 8%, odds are that if you really want the place, you'll end up compromising at 4-5% below offer. In this market, that would be a pretty rotten outcome for you.

12x what it would cost you to rent a comparable unit for a year. Which is probably 50% less than what it's listed for.

what would you recommend starting out in terms of bidding for a condo in good but not great condition, in an A downtown neighborhood, in a full amenity type building and w/d in the unit...$940 is asking

I suggest we all refrain from offering valuation advice on apartments without at least seeing the relevant listings.

thanks for your comment, but given the open nature of StreetEasy, it could potentially provide insight to the seller...

Really all depends on what the place is actually worth of course. Maybe it is priced way too high and maybe it is not. The length of time on the market should help you decide if it is overpriced. As everyone will say, look at the comps and figure out what it is worth. If you find that the price is close to the comps, I think starting at 8% below is fair, but agree that will probably only get you to 4-5% off. Although I agree that an offer generally should never be considered insulting, offers can annoy people and make them think you are not serious. If you offer 20% below for a newly listed apartment that is reasonably priced, the seller will think you are not serious and may not deal with you when better bids come in. You may not care, but if you really want the place, you probably should care. Good luck.

thanks starfish. really appreciate it. you gave me some things to think about.

"The length of time on the market should help you decide if it is overpriced."

vverain says this is not material.

"offers can annoy people and make them think you are not serious."

Just because you think something is worth less than the owner does, it does not make it insulting. You would probably think less of the owner's children than he does, but no offense would be meant.

My statement that offers can annoy people is absolutely true. stevejhx may not agree because he thinks every apartment in NYC is overpriced by 50%, but that is his opinion. If you list your apartment for $1M after checking the comps and doing your homework and get an offer right away for $700K and also get one for $1M, it would not be strange to be annoyed at the clown who asked for a 30% discount. Add to that the fact that some of the lowball offers probably required you to vacate your apartment for several viewings and I think that fairly adds up to being annoyed. In his "response" to that statement, stevejhx conveniently ignores the fact I did not say "insult."

I agree that length of time on market conveys information - but it could be several things.

A long time on market might indicate that the unit is absolutely overpriced, or that's its fairly priced and the seller is not flexible in other areas -- perhaps not granting a financing contingency to willing buyers.

Or it could indicate a problem of broker access to show the property, or broker unwillingness to do so.

Also, since you're dealing with a co-op, the seller may have accepted an offer that didn't get through the board.

It's better, as other posters have noted, to take your pricing cues from comps -- what similar units have sold for and what else is on the market -- than from what the seller says.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

"he thinks every apartment in NYC is overpriced by 50%."

No I don't. Just the market as a whole.

"after checking the comps"

The comps are what things sold for yesterday.

"In his "response" to that statement, stevejhx conveniently ignores the fact I did not say "insult.""

starfish: "Although I agree that an offer generally should never be considered insulting,"

So you're technically correct: you didn't say "insult"; you said "insulting."

FYI initial post: "I want to bid low, but not so low it is insulting."

Alas, the world does not revolve around starfish.

stevehjx, how on earth do you have enough time to post on every single thread on this site? Arguing with you is like having a slap fight with a 5 year old at recess. Read my post before you start a fight - much like your posts, I said offers should NOT be considered insulting, but can be considered annoying.

Starfish:

Disagree strongly mate. In a market which is clearly no longer a seller's market, why should the seller feel insulted/annoyed that someone lowballed them. I am not sure if this is the hangover from a market which was overly generous to them over the past few years. But things are different now and they need to accept this reality and deal with it. I did it, when I was actively searching for a place a few months ago (I have since stopped looking to buy) and on one occasion the seller's broker wrote back a nasty email. So, I upped my offer a bit and she came back with a counter-offer. In the end there was no deal, but what the heck - there was nothing lost. I tried and it didn't work

I think the OP is well within her right to make an offer she deems fit. If she does not get a counter-offer, well she can always bid some more.

In this climate, how different would it be from shopping for a monstrous gas guzzling GM SUV, going for multiple test-drives and bargaining with the dealer to get a good price? Hey, you'll be surprised with what the dealer/s may agree to.

It's all part of a business transaction - when apts. were flying off the shelves so to speak, the seller's annoyance is justified perhaps. Not now mate.

cheers,

"8% is a gift! Unless it's a unique property, I wouldn't start much above 85-87% of the offer. If you were to start at 8%, odds are that if you really want the place, you'll end up compromising at 4-5% below offer. In this market, that would be a pretty rotten outcome for you."

How in the world could anyone say this having zero information about the apt. Oops sorry, we know its a co-op, so there's that. Its a shame whats happening to this board.

"how on earth do you have enough time to post on every single thread on this site?"

I only post on a few, but I was working on a really boring (yet famous) lawsuit, and this entertains me.

Again, I said sellers should not be insulted by a lowball offer (it is a business transaction, not a personal attack after all), but that they can feel annoyed. A lot of effort goes into doing private showings and answering questions. If that all results in an offer that is 20-30% below ask within the first week it is listed, I would personally find that annoying - not insulting. That's just my opinion.

stevehjx, do yourself a favor and put your name in the "search discussions" box at the right. It will give you at least a dozen threads you post in. I looked at 2 and you had many, many dozens of posts in each - most of which were enormous. And nice try to make yourself look important with the reference to the "famous" lawsuit that you work on.

You're assuming that the property is reasonably priced in a stable market. The first time you get an offer that you find "annoying" it may annoy you, but if you continue to get offers that annoy you, you need to take the hint.

And, to set the facts straight, I never said that you said it was "insulting." I was addressing the opening post.