Combination of apartments

Are there other combinations in the building that have gone through the same wall? If it's the wall that separates the buildings it may not be doable (and who knows what's in the wall -- chimneys, plumbing, wiring, etc.). You should informally ask your building management if this is at all possible. It's going to be a big surprise if the two apartments aren't at the exact same level (not unusual if the two buildings weren't built as a pair). If there are level changes in the hallways, this is a hint that there may be problems. Assuming that all or part of the 2nd LR would be sacrified to become the 3rd BR, it's not a combination I'd want, as the proportion of private space (BRs) to public space (LR) is too far off, in my opinion. Big risk of having a public space that feels crowded when all the sleepers awake (even if they're kids).

I combined 2 units in a coop a few years ago. It's pretty straightforward these days with the DOB (an ALT-2 I think). We used an expediter (called green light, they were awesome) and had the architect self certify (he has since moved).
The only surprising things were needing to do tests for lead and asbestos (I think both, maybe just 1 of those).

We only had to go through drywall. If I were you, I'd talk to your building about the brick. Your building probably has an architect/engineer who could answer some of the questions.

Also, we should have pushed to buy the common space outside of our units when we combined, so if you can do this, think about it before...

Kbmnyc,

We were hired for 4 combinations this year. They are not that much more difficult than doing a regular renovation.
If you have any questions please feel free to email me at primerenovations@mac.com or call me 646-436-3942.

I can also refer you to good architects that would be perfect for this kind of project

Jeff
www.primerenovationsnyc.com

We combined 2 studio apartments in 2008 and eventually a 3rd studio in 2012 (horizontal in 2008 and vertical in 2012).
I think the advice about floors not being level is wise to check out....but not a deal breaker. You may also end up having 2 power meters (we combined the 3 of ours in 2012.....but for years had two separate meters no big deal), water and gas are irrelevant.

You can check out some photos here - http://bit.ly/135henry happy to answer any questions but pretty straight forward and I'd do it again. Our builder was

Edgar J. Espinosa
W.F. Group, L.L.C.
C: (646) 932 0515
wfgroupnyc@gmail.com

If you want to get a few quotes from people who have done this before. The hardest part for us was convincing other owners in the building to get approval so I'd start there once you get a conditionally accepted offer by the vendor subject to coop signing off.

Cheers,
Dean

> deanc - looks like almost $900-1,000 sq.ft before renovation - that's a good deal?

In addition to above wise cautions, you need to look carefully at the combined maintenance charges that will result as measured against comparably sized units in the same building or nearby. Sometimes combos yield outrageously out of whack carrying charges for the layout that actually results. You want to be sure you aren't ending up with a white elephant in your building. When all the numbers are crunched, it very often makes clear that simply moving to an apartment with the space you want is financially more logical than combining units. Finally, despite what many people think going into the combo construction, living in one of the units during the reno can be very, very challenging and if small children are involved, one may think twice about the health consequences of the construction dust that is almost impossible to contain. And with you there, contractors have to work around you and it can impact the overall length of the project. All just things to consider.

Sorry PER SQ FT before renovation

Thanks all. There is a difference in floor height, we are aware of that. It would either mean a step up from the other unit, or considering raising floors in other ( likely MUCH more expensive, esp bathroom, but we have no idea). Combined maintenance is a good point, but would be a little over 2k per month, which doesn't seem obscene for 1450 sq feet in NYC. No one in the building has done it yet, but another owner considered it a few years ago, and we have spoken. Agreed on the expeditor, def worth the money to save (some) of the headache. Thanks for the offer Primer, we will certainly be in touch is this actually looks like it may work out...

I agree with Kylewest as usual. I do not recommend living in any of the space during construction. It will end up being less expensive to move into something temporary.

We had an opportunity to combine a studio and 1 bedroom we owned a number of years ago. It would have made a large 3 bedroom/ 2 bath (1550 sqft) plus balcony. After considering the cost, time, inconvenience of relocating while reno was going on, we decided against it and bought a renovated 2 bedroom(3 bedroom convertible)/2 bath and never regretted the decision. We rented out the other 2 apartments for a number of years and eventually sold them when we knew we were never going back those apartments. Good Luck.

Expanding on Kyle's comments, please keep in mind that not only can combos have higher-than-average carrying costs but they can be challenging from a resell perspective because of their often less-than-desirable layouts. Just because the resulting space is 1400 + sq ft doesn't mean it flows well and buyers looking for an apartment of that size may shy away in favor of a more traditional floor plan.

To amplify the above, I don't think I have ever seen a combination of 3 studios which had a kitchen/living room in correct proportion to the resulting unit size.

As in 135 Henry ?

I think 30 is right about proportions. A combo apt with the same square footage as original non-combo apt may be less valuable due to less desirable layout and proportions. Naturally, do not forget to add carrying cost and trouble during renovation. In addition, the large apartment premium has reduced a bit due to new supply of 2bedroom + condos.

I think a big question is if you are able to do wet over dry, if you are the proportions should work out just fine. If you cannot then the kitchen will be way too small.

Primer05,
The problem with that concept is: Where do you expand the kitchen into? The already undersized living room? Often the only way to make it work is to combine 4 studios (not 3) to make a 2BR with Kitchen/Dining Room but that can put a strain on the numbers.

I have not seen the floor plan but if you can do wet over dry you can almost make the one studio a big eat in kitchen, I am not saying to do that but one could if they wanted to.

Hi PH41,

The starting purchase price for the apartments was $528 psqft
2008
Coop unit 7 $325,000
Coop unit 8 $250,000
2012
Coop unit 5 $299,000

The total space ended up being 1655 sq ft once all three apartments combined (1405 int/250 ext)

Made up of 875 upstairs (liv/dining/kit/2nd br/bath/walkin closet), rear deck outside is additional 250, and 530 in the new downstairs master bedroom suite (br/bath/walkin closet + washer/dryer).

All measurements exclude common area stairs. We also own the roof rights on top of apt 7&8 which would be around 800sq ft, which we considered extending onto to develop into a larger deck if we wanted it.

Was a wall to wall gut renovation for all three apartments.

I think the proportions work out great, master bedroom is large compared to most NY apartments but for $2.2+m pricepoint in todays market you'd want that.

We still need to replace the rear deck, upstairs fireplace, install built ins for downstairs closet a few other odds and ends we have in mind over the next 10 years before we plan to sell, and have spent about $250 psqft so far and will probably cost about $300 by the time everything is finished so at around $850psqft we've done ok considering comps are around $1250+ psqft (though keep in mind some of those prices are now 8-5 years old etc and market has moved).

My name is Richard Garey and I am the principal of Manhatta Architecture, P.C. http://www.manhatta.net/ If you are interested, I would be happy to meet you on site to discuss the proposed renovation. Please feel free to contact me directly via the CONTACT form on my website. If the wall is "thick", that most likely implies it's structural and therefore some sort of lintel/arch would need to be installed. I doubt it's an impossible task, but it's worth bidding out to determine whether it's within your budget.

Hi PH41, finally got around to renovating the deck here at 135 Henry.....basically removed the wooden deck and replaced it with a metal frame and 24"x24" porcelain tile deck.

- http://bit.ly/135HenryDeck

Its been an awesome upgrade to the apartment and probably something closer in quality to the pricepoint the rest of the apartment combination would demand.

>deanc - nice deck!
Living/dining still too small, and still a walk up.

>deanc - nice deck!
Living/dining still too small, and still a walk up.

Dean, It looks very nice and good for another 100 years. Do you mind sharing what the project cost?

@PH41 yep true its still a walkup and yes my wife would prefer a smaller countertop (eg bigger dining area) but I prefer the extra storage space for "entertaining plates/platters" and also means our home theatre equipment is hidden away (controlled via IR repeaters) and the only thing you can see is the tv for daytime viewing/projector and 100" drop down screen for night time big screen movies.

@300_mercer I'm going to do a longer "tradesmen shoutout/reccomendation" with full breakdown later, but the total for everything including architect/dob fees/zip car hire fees to look at tiles/small bits and pieces came to just under $39,000

$4500 of that was paid for by the coop (the roofing membrane work).

The deck is 10 x 24 so basically around $160 per sq ft.

Thank you. Structural/iron work is expensive!!